What's involved in being the executor of a will?
Discussion
All,
I'm joint executor of an estate now that my mother-in-law has died. No property is involved and it's not a life-changing amount of money (approx £30K to be divided up 3 ways). There is a very straightforward will and no messy circumstances whereby things would be contested.
I'm assuming there are some on here with prior experience of being an executor so looking for any advice about the paperwork I need to do, what forms I need to fill in etc. etc.
If possible I'm keen to avoid involving a solicitor as I'm sure the size and simplicity of matters doesn't warrant the expense.
I'm joint executor of an estate now that my mother-in-law has died. No property is involved and it's not a life-changing amount of money (approx £30K to be divided up 3 ways). There is a very straightforward will and no messy circumstances whereby things would be contested.
I'm assuming there are some on here with prior experience of being an executor so looking for any advice about the paperwork I need to do, what forms I need to fill in etc. etc.
If possible I'm keen to avoid involving a solicitor as I'm sure the size and simplicity of matters doesn't warrant the expense.
I've been executor a number of times, once with more money than you have, the other times around the same.
You can download the rules with regards executor's duties or do what I did and buy a book. Had a simple What To Do list and this proved very helpful.
My experience indicates that at 30k there are no major problems.
In the last couple I did, still remembering the bruises I received on previous occasions, I discussed matters, more of a chat really, early on with the beneficiaries. I found this headed off ‘problems’ with regards who got what as there are often suggestions of promises made.
I also got agreement with regards the realisation of assets.
I had a couple of disagreements with regards my intent. I gave a simple ultimatum: the beneficiaries decide amongst themselves within the guidelines I gave or I told them what I had decided.
I kept precise records all the way through, not only of money but the reasons for your decisions and what people said to you. I charged for all costs and expenses, even the book which I kept, although it is well out of date now.
If you have to make a difficult decision or one which might upset one party or another then make a note of all the options you considered, the reasons for and against, and why you opted for the one you did.
Be prepared for some argument if there is anything in the will which is vague or contentious.
Do all your work before presenting your decisions to the beneficiaries but be flexible.
Those involved have just lost someone, perhaps dear to them. This can make them say things that they might regret later which the emotion has subsided. The partner of a cousin of mine had left him a few years before but he still made her, and her (not his) two kids beneficiaries. She rejected the not inconsiderable sum, presumably due to guilt, and her kids did the same, probably due to pressure from her. Yet the way I looked at it was that it was his last wish so I left it for some time and then approached the family again.
That was an extreme example but things like this happened all the time. Just when you thought it was safe to go into the water . . .
I found local authorities and similar extremely helpful. Remarkably so.
To a great extent you have the whip hand. You are acting as the agent of the deceased so they won’t complain.
Give all parties copies of all receipts, monies and such. I used to do it in a separate envelope as some might not want such detail. The norm was for people to hand it back unopened.
In all cases there was something satisfying about being executor. It gives you something to do in the period right after their death, useful if they were close friends. Also it is like a final duty. They won’t know of course, but you do. And you learn a lot about people and their relationship with the person you might have regarded as friend.
You can download the rules with regards executor's duties or do what I did and buy a book. Had a simple What To Do list and this proved very helpful.
My experience indicates that at 30k there are no major problems.
In the last couple I did, still remembering the bruises I received on previous occasions, I discussed matters, more of a chat really, early on with the beneficiaries. I found this headed off ‘problems’ with regards who got what as there are often suggestions of promises made.
I also got agreement with regards the realisation of assets.
I had a couple of disagreements with regards my intent. I gave a simple ultimatum: the beneficiaries decide amongst themselves within the guidelines I gave or I told them what I had decided.
I kept precise records all the way through, not only of money but the reasons for your decisions and what people said to you. I charged for all costs and expenses, even the book which I kept, although it is well out of date now.
If you have to make a difficult decision or one which might upset one party or another then make a note of all the options you considered, the reasons for and against, and why you opted for the one you did.
Be prepared for some argument if there is anything in the will which is vague or contentious.
Do all your work before presenting your decisions to the beneficiaries but be flexible.
Those involved have just lost someone, perhaps dear to them. This can make them say things that they might regret later which the emotion has subsided. The partner of a cousin of mine had left him a few years before but he still made her, and her (not his) two kids beneficiaries. She rejected the not inconsiderable sum, presumably due to guilt, and her kids did the same, probably due to pressure from her. Yet the way I looked at it was that it was his last wish so I left it for some time and then approached the family again.
That was an extreme example but things like this happened all the time. Just when you thought it was safe to go into the water . . .
I found local authorities and similar extremely helpful. Remarkably so.
To a great extent you have the whip hand. You are acting as the agent of the deceased so they won’t complain.
Give all parties copies of all receipts, monies and such. I used to do it in a separate envelope as some might not want such detail. The norm was for people to hand it back unopened.
In all cases there was something satisfying about being executor. It gives you something to do in the period right after their death, useful if they were close friends. Also it is like a final duty. They won’t know of course, but you do. And you learn a lot about people and their relationship with the person you might have regarded as friend.
An additional point:
Once a beneficiary said she'd been promised a pair of (dreadful looking) vases. As I was going to have other items valued I took one along just to see. The pair turned out to be the most expensive single household item, just beating an old, decrepit and broken watch that fetched over £2000.
When you suggest you are valuing for probate, you get a much lower value that if you wanted to insure. This can lead to problems with arguments as to how much value the executor should accord. The early chat can smooth the way.
'I'll get these items valued and will go along with whatever the valuer suggests. If anyone wants a second opinion they must pay the expenses regardless of outcome.'
If anyone puts their hands on a particular item, be wary. The watch was, supposedly, just something to remember the chap by despite, to my knowledge, him never wearing it. In the end I sold it.
Once a beneficiary said she'd been promised a pair of (dreadful looking) vases. As I was going to have other items valued I took one along just to see. The pair turned out to be the most expensive single household item, just beating an old, decrepit and broken watch that fetched over £2000.
When you suggest you are valuing for probate, you get a much lower value that if you wanted to insure. This can lead to problems with arguments as to how much value the executor should accord. The early chat can smooth the way.
'I'll get these items valued and will go along with whatever the valuer suggests. If anyone wants a second opinion they must pay the expenses regardless of outcome.'
If anyone puts their hands on a particular item, be wary. The watch was, supposedly, just something to remember the chap by despite, to my knowledge, him never wearing it. In the end I sold it.
You'll have to apply for grant of probate as it's above £5,000 and to do that you speak with HMRC Probate and inheritance tax service.
They are usually very helpful and once you have probate then that will make life much easier proving that you have the authority to do what you have to do.
Remember that as executor you have certain legal responsibilities to administer the estate, pay taxes and bills owing, and sort out the administration. If you get these wrong as executor it will be your responsibility to set them right, and you will be financially liable.
It's not difficult if you're organised, but can be very time consuming.
The one thing I would immediately advise is to be VERY careful going through the belongings of the deceased, I've known the most innocent pieces of paper with a number scrawled on lead to very large sums squirrelled away that nobody else in the family knew about.
They are usually very helpful and once you have probate then that will make life much easier proving that you have the authority to do what you have to do.
Remember that as executor you have certain legal responsibilities to administer the estate, pay taxes and bills owing, and sort out the administration. If you get these wrong as executor it will be your responsibility to set them right, and you will be financially liable.
It's not difficult if you're organised, but can be very time consuming.
The one thing I would immediately advise is to be VERY careful going through the belongings of the deceased, I've known the most innocent pieces of paper with a number scrawled on lead to very large sums squirrelled away that nobody else in the family knew about.
Jasandjules said:
Well, it doesn't sound too bad if everyone is nice and honest but a nightmare if you get one bloodsucker....
I am by all acounts the Executor for my parents' estate. I wish they had asked me first though.
To add. Being appointed as a named executor does not mean you are obliged to act in that capacity.I am by all acounts the Executor for my parents' estate. I wish they had asked me first though.
You have the option to renounce your powers. Once done you can't go back. Box A4 on Form PA1.
Jasandjules said:
I am by all acounts the Executor for my parents' estate. I wish they had asked me first though.
Nothing wrong with that per se, but you might want to check that the will contains the necessary form of words. There can be problems with an executor also being a beneficiary if the wording isn't right. I'm sure it won't be an issue if the wills were professionally drafted but it might be worth looking at if they were DIY jobs or done with a will-writing kit.
Lurking Lawyer said:
Jasandjules said:
I am by all acounts the Executor for my parents' estate. I wish they had asked me first though.
Nothing wrong with that per se, but you might want to check that the will contains the necessary form of words. There can be problems with an executor also being a beneficiary if the wording isn't right. I'm sure it won't be an issue if the wills were professionally drafted but it might be worth looking at if they were DIY jobs or done with a will-writing kit.
Joint executor... Now that was my problem. My mother left all four of her children as executors. My younger sister immediately legally opted out and my older sister lived in Australia and although she did all she could, that was obviously limited. So it was down to me and my brother who turned out to have huge unresolved issues with my deceased mother and my younger sister. Pain all around. In the end my older sister and I had to threaten him with forcibly removing him as an executor (with additional legal threats due to inaction from my younger sister) for which he and his wife have never forgiven us. Sigh. An executor should either be a single person or a competent solicitor. Because of the problems it took 6 years to resolve matters - the only upside being that the house gained a staggering amount over the 6 years and we sold at the top. I agree completely about scrupulous record keeping - they are emotional times and people can behave out of character.
Lurking Lawyer said:
Jasandjules said:
I am by all acounts the Executor for my parents' estate. I wish they had asked me first though.
Nothing wrong with that per se, but you might want to check that the will contains the necessary form of words. There can be problems with an executor also being a beneficiary if the wording isn't right. I'm sure it won't be an issue if the wills were professionally drafted but it might be worth looking at if they were DIY jobs or done with a will-writing kit.
Rude-boy said:
Lurking Lawyer said:
Jasandjules said:
I am by all acounts the Executor for my parents' estate. I wish they had asked me first though.
Nothing wrong with that per se, but you might want to check that the will contains the necessary form of words. There can be problems with an executor also being a beneficiary if the wording isn't right. I'm sure it won't be an issue if the wills were professionally drafted but it might be worth looking at if they were DIY jobs or done with a will-writing kit.
There's an absolute bar on a beneficiary witnessing the will. There's not a bar on a beneficiary being executor but (from dim and distant memory of a probate training course!) the will should ideally adopt a particular form of words in order to avoid problems. Alas, my recollection is incomplete and I don't remember any more than that!
[quote=Who me ?]Don't know the differences between Scottish and English , but in Scotland, both children being named as exectutor causes problems with insurance etc . Below certain limits -the court administrators can /have the power to operate , in my experience are most helpfull .
[/quote]
Don't think it is a problem under English law - or our Solicitor is going to be in trouble! Normally prudent to name two Executors in case the sole nominee pops their clogs before you do and you can't or don't do anything about it. My recently deceased FIL got away with it but all it takes is an errant vehicle...
summat strange with the formatting here
[/quote]
Don't think it is a problem under English law - or our Solicitor is going to be in trouble! Normally prudent to name two Executors in case the sole nominee pops their clogs before you do and you can't or don't do anything about it. My recently deceased FIL got away with it but all it takes is an errant vehicle...
summat strange with the formatting here
Dogwatch said:
Who me said:
Don't know the differences between Scottish and English , but in Scotland, both children being named as exectutor causes problems with insurance etc . Below certain limits -the court administrators can /have the power to operate , in my experience are most helpfull .
Don't think it is a problem under English law - or our Solicitor is going to be in trouble! Normally prudent to name two Executors in case the sole nominee pops their clogs before you do and you can't or don't do anything about it. My recently deceased FIL got away with it but all it takes is an errant vehicle... summat strange with the formatting here
The ? at the end of Who me ? squiffied the formatting
Lurking Lawyer said:
Rude-boy said:
Lurking Lawyer said:
Jasandjules said:
I am by all acounts the Executor for my parents' estate. I wish they had asked me first though.
Nothing wrong with that per se, but you might want to check that the will contains the necessary form of words. There can be problems with an executor also being a beneficiary if the wording isn't right. I'm sure it won't be an issue if the wills were professionally drafted but it might be worth looking at if they were DIY jobs or done with a will-writing kit.
There's an absolute bar on a beneficiary witnessing the will. There's not a bar on a beneficiary being executor but (from dim and distant memory of a probate training course!) the will should ideally adopt a particular form of words in order to avoid problems. Alas, my recollection is incomplete and I don't remember any more than that!
Thanks all for your help.
Originally I was the only executor. However sister-in-law stuck her oar in (as she usually does) and got a new will made out so now we're joint executors. She is a beneficiary as well. I will just have to cope with her attitude for the next few weeks until it's all sorted.
Originally I was the only executor. However sister-in-law stuck her oar in (as she usually does) and got a new will made out so now we're joint executors. She is a beneficiary as well. I will just have to cope with her attitude for the next few weeks until it's all sorted.
merc_man said:
Thanks all for your help.
Originally I was the only executor. However sister-in-law stuck her oar in (as she usually does) and got a new will made out so now we're joint executors. She is a beneficiary as well. I will just have to cope with her attitude for the next few weeks until it's all sorted.
I am sorry to hear that. It often shows you the darker side of humanity (and your relatives) when situations such as this arise. Originally I was the only executor. However sister-in-law stuck her oar in (as she usually does) and got a new will made out so now we're joint executors. She is a beneficiary as well. I will just have to cope with her attitude for the next few weeks until it's all sorted.
Just make sure you write down all discussions and both sign and date it? That may help?
merc_man said:
Thanks all for your help.
Originally I was the only executor. However sister-in-law stuck her oar in (as she usually does) and got a new will made out so now we're joint executors. She is a beneficiary as well. I will just have to cope with her attitude for the next few weeks until it's all sorted.
Old saying, "Where there is a Will, there is a relative..."Originally I was the only executor. However sister-in-law stuck her oar in (as she usually does) and got a new will made out so now we're joint executors. She is a beneficiary as well. I will just have to cope with her attitude for the next few weeks until it's all sorted.
The only special wording relating to execs. think about is the professional charging clause which needs to go in if, say, a solicitor, is an executor and they need to be renumerated for their time spent in that capacity
In the event of a reluctant, recalcitrant or just plain bloody awkward co-executor, you can, as I have done once, threatened to engage a solicitor to act on my behalf, said solicitor's fees will of course come out of the estate.
If the co-executors are fine and co-operative and willing to share the load it's no big deal even with estates which are not totally straightforward, but when one or more become awkward or laggardly in doing things, then trying to sort this stuff in a timely fashion and run a job, and run a family household, and generally not go fecking mad in the process sometimes it is best to bite the bullet and set a pro on the job. Of course it all depends on the circumstances.
If the co-executors are fine and co-operative and willing to share the load it's no big deal even with estates which are not totally straightforward, but when one or more become awkward or laggardly in doing things, then trying to sort this stuff in a timely fashion and run a job, and run a family household, and generally not go fecking mad in the process sometimes it is best to bite the bullet and set a pro on the job. Of course it all depends on the circumstances.
F i F said:
In the event of a reluctant, recalcitrant or just plain bloody awkward co-executor, you can, as I have done once, threatened to engage a solicitor to act on my behalf, said solicitor's fees will of course come out of the estate.
However, there are those who are obstinate enough to be happy to instruct a solicitor and indeed watch the entire estate go in fees..... Just out of spite..Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff