Unmarked police cars - encouraging speeding
Discussion
As many of you will already know the majority of the Police forces in this country have a policy of acquiring and deploying unmarked pursuit vehicles.
Obviously the purpose of a vehicle of this type is to catch a motorist by surprise.
I wondered how legal/moral it was to actually encourage a motorist to race or speed by using an unmarked car in order to create a problem where one did not originally exist?
The consequences of these actions could be quite serious and I wondered if it is really a necessary law enforcement tactic? It is a well known fact that the number of deaths caused by police traffic pursuit are higher than any other circumstances involving death and the police – by a considerable margin too – say something like 85 deaths out of every 100 are pursuit related. This includes children, police officers, the elderly, pedestrians, cyclists and the actual target of the pursuit action. Nobody is safe when a pursuit starts and it causes a great many deaths every year. There are guidelines in the pursuit code which explain to officers that the decision to pursue needs to be weighed up against the value of any potential arrest or conviction. The possible consequences are injuries or deaths.
A marked police car will make a motorist slow down to the speed limit or something like what the speed limit should be. Say 75mph on a motorway would be acceptable, a bit faster than the limit would be tolerated, but not 95mph... A marked car travelling on the motorway always slows down the traffic.
An unmarked police car has the same effect as a marked police car in the sense that the motorist will slow down knowing there will be consequences for sustained illegal activity.
The difference is the way that this will be achieved.
An unmarked police car can/will push another driver into a pursuit or encourage a motoring offence. A marked car will cause any driver aware of its presence to drive to an exceptionally high standard in accordance with road traffic law.
So this is my question? Marked police cars indicate to the motoring public that there is a danger they will be caught speeding or committing road traffic offences. Unmarked cars don't do this. Unmarked cars are used to deceive the public and trick them into believing it is ok to break the law and speed simply by concealing the true purpose of the vehicle. Not only concealing the purpose of the vehicle but also encouraging competition on the road by deliberately selecting desirable vehicles for use in this activity.
The police choose vehicles specifically for their appearance and performance. I was stopped recently by a Mitsubishi Evo that chased/raced me without using any sirens or blue lights until they had gathered enough video footage to prove I had broken the law. Starting from a low speed well within the limit and increasing to a high speed far enough outside the limit. From my rear view mirror all I could see was an enthusiastic motorist enjoying the use of a performance vehicle just as I was. In fact the other vehicle contained two traffic officers who were encouraging me to break the law just so they could do me for it.
Does it add any value to our society? Or does it make our roads a more dangerous place? Is an unmarked car better than a marked car?
Obviously the purpose of a vehicle of this type is to catch a motorist by surprise.
I wondered how legal/moral it was to actually encourage a motorist to race or speed by using an unmarked car in order to create a problem where one did not originally exist?
The consequences of these actions could be quite serious and I wondered if it is really a necessary law enforcement tactic? It is a well known fact that the number of deaths caused by police traffic pursuit are higher than any other circumstances involving death and the police – by a considerable margin too – say something like 85 deaths out of every 100 are pursuit related. This includes children, police officers, the elderly, pedestrians, cyclists and the actual target of the pursuit action. Nobody is safe when a pursuit starts and it causes a great many deaths every year. There are guidelines in the pursuit code which explain to officers that the decision to pursue needs to be weighed up against the value of any potential arrest or conviction. The possible consequences are injuries or deaths.
A marked police car will make a motorist slow down to the speed limit or something like what the speed limit should be. Say 75mph on a motorway would be acceptable, a bit faster than the limit would be tolerated, but not 95mph... A marked car travelling on the motorway always slows down the traffic.
An unmarked police car has the same effect as a marked police car in the sense that the motorist will slow down knowing there will be consequences for sustained illegal activity.
The difference is the way that this will be achieved.
An unmarked police car can/will push another driver into a pursuit or encourage a motoring offence. A marked car will cause any driver aware of its presence to drive to an exceptionally high standard in accordance with road traffic law.
So this is my question? Marked police cars indicate to the motoring public that there is a danger they will be caught speeding or committing road traffic offences. Unmarked cars don't do this. Unmarked cars are used to deceive the public and trick them into believing it is ok to break the law and speed simply by concealing the true purpose of the vehicle. Not only concealing the purpose of the vehicle but also encouraging competition on the road by deliberately selecting desirable vehicles for use in this activity.
The police choose vehicles specifically for their appearance and performance. I was stopped recently by a Mitsubishi Evo that chased/raced me without using any sirens or blue lights until they had gathered enough video footage to prove I had broken the law. Starting from a low speed well within the limit and increasing to a high speed far enough outside the limit. From my rear view mirror all I could see was an enthusiastic motorist enjoying the use of a performance vehicle just as I was. In fact the other vehicle contained two traffic officers who were encouraging me to break the law just so they could do me for it.
Does it add any value to our society? Or does it make our roads a more dangerous place? Is an unmarked car better than a marked car?
I previously thought these allegations were tosh, but last week on a dual c/way A road, I was doing about 75 when a car comes up right behind me. Couldn't see what it was( it was dark) but he was about a tailgaters length away from rear bumper and caught up/dropped back twice.
I wasn't in the mood- I'd been at work 14 hours- so after a minute of this I dropped down to 50 and stayed there.
Vectra in stripes ( Derbyshire Force) then passes, accelerating to about 85 before being lost in the distance.
Can't ( I'm afraid ) see any other explanation but that he was trying to get me to pull away from him so he could give me a ticket. Not clever.
Regards all
I wasn't in the mood- I'd been at work 14 hours- so after a minute of this I dropped down to 50 and stayed there.
Vectra in stripes ( Derbyshire Force) then passes, accelerating to about 85 before being lost in the distance.
Can't ( I'm afraid ) see any other explanation but that he was trying to get me to pull away from him so he could give me a ticket. Not clever.
Regards all
I don't agree about moving the topic. But usually with these things. Once someone has said it, then a moderator will move it.
The reason they can get away with this is down to the fact that no citizen has any interest in involving themselves in this matter until after they've been caught. Once caught, it then becomes a case of sour grapes.
As this is only a discussion forum and not a court of law it is perfectly acceptable to use devices such as supposition, observation, assumption, etc, etc... “hey; we’re just talking here”
The reason they can get away with this is down to the fact that no citizen has any interest in involving themselves in this matter until after they've been caught. Once caught, it then becomes a case of sour grapes.
As this is only a discussion forum and not a court of law it is perfectly acceptable to use devices such as supposition, observation, assumption, etc, etc... “hey; we’re just talking here”
2 many leptons said:
I was stopped recently by a Mitsubishi Evo that chased/raced me without using any sirens or blue lights until they had gathered enough video footage to prove I had broken the law.
2 many leptons said:
From my rear view mirror all I could see was an enthusiastic motorist enjoying the use of a performance vehicle just as I was.
First rule of doing "2 many leptons" - if someone starts keeping up with you, you drop back until you know who they are. And even if they turn out not to be Plod, you have to decide if you want to run the risk that they don't have the skill or attention span to keep up with you safely. A two-up Evo? Too bloody easy. You played, you lost. Unmarked plod didn't force you to do anything.
I think there is also a risk with unmarked police cars that people may not believe they are police cars at all. There have been quite a few stories of people being "pulled over" by criminals who then rob the car off you.
Personally I wouldn't associate an Evo with the Police. I'd be wary of pulling over, thinking it might be someone impersonating the police.
Is there a law saying you can drive to a police station before pulling over if it's an unmarked car? Or is that tosh!
Personally I wouldn't associate an Evo with the Police. I'd be wary of pulling over, thinking it might be someone impersonating the police.
Is there a law saying you can drive to a police station before pulling over if it's an unmarked car? Or is that tosh!
If in doubt always let the car behind catch up and see who is driving it or let them past and enjoy your drive following them.
I did this once and didn't think it could be an unmarked car as it was four up and looked like they were just in a hurry and not following me so let them past and enjoyed following them only for the white reverse lights to start flashing blue a few miles down the road. Had been following a police high speed training run and got a telling off for driving too quickly but thankfully they let me go on my way suitably chastised.
I did this once and didn't think it could be an unmarked car as it was four up and looked like they were just in a hurry and not following me so let them past and enjoyed following them only for the white reverse lights to start flashing blue a few miles down the road. Had been following a police high speed training run and got a telling off for driving too quickly but thankfully they let me go on my way suitably chastised.
last weekend i accelerated away from some roadworks on the m6 rather enthusiatically. a black unmarked 5 series bmw drew along side , and when i looked across i saw a police officer. he just wagged his finger at me and turned off the motorway.
this is the kind of policing we want. having said that if he had tailgaited me i would just have moved over and let him pass
this is the kind of policing we want. having said that if he had tailgaited me i would just have moved over and let him pass
2 many leptons said:
On a road where the trees shade the road it is impossible to see through the windscreen on a following car. How much time should you spend looking at the car behind?
As much time as you can spare - or you could try letting them pass you! 
Or perhaps you wern't just pressing on a bit, and letting them past wouldn't have sat well with the "chased/raced" thing?
No. If everyone 'straightens up and drives right' in the vicinity of a marked car, they wouldn't be able to dish out Moron of the Week awards to as many people. In my experience unmarked cars have always been easy enough to spot. In fact, I reckon if you can spot an unmarked car, then that's a good measure of how much attention you're paying to the task in hand and the traffic around you.
2 many leptons said:
Oh man, that's unlucky. You could've been caught like that as well!
I saw a green 59 plate 5-series on the motorway as well, the very next day... but this one had a large mirror strapped to the top of the original door mirror and an extra ariel.
You saw a BMW with an extra mermaid? Or was it some kind of retro-fit laundry product?I saw a green 59 plate 5-series on the motorway as well, the very next day... but this one had a large mirror strapped to the top of the original door mirror and an extra ariel.
MrLou said:
2 many leptons said:
Oh man, that's unlucky. You could've been caught like that as well!
I saw a green 59 plate 5-series on the motorway as well, the very next day... but this one had a large mirror strapped to the top of the original door mirror and an extra ariel.
You saw a BMW with an extra mermaid? Or was it some kind of retro-fit laundry product?I saw a green 59 plate 5-series on the motorway as well, the very next day... but this one had a large mirror strapped to the top of the original door mirror and an extra ariel.
Haha, so what, I can't spell antenna...
I just feel an unmarked car isn't cricket. That's from my perspective since I've been caught. However, there is a safety implication and the question of 'why bother' as well? When a marked car achieves the same end without the unnecessary danger.
If we are all of this mindset that speed kills then should we not be thinking that something terrible could've happened while this situation was occurring? I am an experienced driver with a great many circuit sessions under my belt, I know how my car handles and how to use it safely. But I also know when I was a young 17 year old I still had the same enthauisim for driving but none of the experience! So if this had happened 20-odd years ago would I still be alive or free to type this? Obviously excluding the fact this method of communication wouldn't have been available back then.
I just feel an unmarked car isn't cricket. That's from my perspective since I've been caught. However, there is a safety implication and the question of 'why bother' as well? When a marked car achieves the same end without the unnecessary danger.
If we are all of this mindset that speed kills then should we not be thinking that something terrible could've happened while this situation was occurring? I am an experienced driver with a great many circuit sessions under my belt, I know how my car handles and how to use it safely. But I also know when I was a young 17 year old I still had the same enthauisim for driving but none of the experience! So if this had happened 20-odd years ago would I still be alive or free to type this? Obviously excluding the fact this method of communication wouldn't have been available back then.
ZOLLAR said:
This should be in SP&L, also do you have any proof that the police actively try and push people in to breaking the law so that can ticket them? and i mean a 100% proof not just observations and statements from people who have been caught speeding but claim innocence?
I have first hand experinece of it:I had an unmarked 3 series sitting right on my tail whilst on my R6, trying to get me to exceed 60 (I knew the car was an unmarked car, and was feeling quite smug sitting at exactly 60). They had plenty of opportunities to overtake had they wanted to/needed to, but never did.
As it happens, after a mile or two, another bike came past us both at 80+ so they went after him instead.
They were sat approximately 8 metres from the back of my vehicle for the full 2 miles. At 60mph, highway code suggests stopping distance of 73 metres. This car was no more than 10m. I'm probably being generous to the BiB here - they were definitely less than two cars length away, probably more like one and a half.
monthefish said:
They were sat approximately 8 metres from the back of my vehicle for the full 2 miles. At 60mph, highway code suggests stopping distance of 73 metres. This car was no more than 10m. I'm probably being generous to the BiB here - they were definitely less than two cars length away, probably more like one and a half.
If you felt it was unsafe you could have slowed down, pulled in or done something else to let them past, no?Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff