Is it ever legal to undertake?

[irish boy]

Had an incident yesterday. M2 northbound, very light traffic, sitting in the fast lane behind a new shape vectra at 60 mph with a couple sitting up front....probably mid 40's. I consider myself a fairly patient person and probably gave it 5 miles, in that time he probably passed 2/3 cars.

I then moved closer, not dangerously so but enough to let him know I was there. Still nothing.

I then flashed the lights 3/4 times, something I haven't done in years. Still nothing.

I then slowly moved to the slow lane and, non aggressively increased speed to 70ish to ease past without causing a fuss.

All was going well until the prat in the vectra, whom up till now I was sure hadn't seen me, accelerates to 100ish and passes me again shaking his fist and gesturing me to pull over, before cutting into my lane and braking. Not wanting to get into a fight with some absolute binlid I moved sharply into the fast lane, slightly exceeded the speed limit and lost him.

I know what I did was illegal ( tho the law would probably also have a dim view of his response!) but my question is....is there ever a time when say after 5 miles it is possible to undertake and still be on the right side of the law?

cheers

[GPT]

This has been discussed many times. Search for 'undertaking'.

On the other hand once more can't hurt....

[Mr E Driver]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/search4.asp?h=0...

[citizen_smith]

it's perfectly legal as long as it's not done dangerously, ie. weaving in and out of lanes at high speed during busy periods.

[marshalla]

There is no such thing as a designated "fast lane" on a British road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x5ubA6tcrY

Edited by marshalla on Monday 12th April 18:25

[Strangely Brown]

There is also no such thing as "undertaking" unless you are a mortician. The word is "overtake" and it can be performed either on the right or, in some circumstances, on the left. One-way streets are an obvious example.

[Sam.F]

Vectra drivers...

[Tiggsy]

do the undertake, set the cruise at whatever you are happy with are eyes forward....if vectra man pulls alongside, do nothing apart from giving him the finger and chuckle to yourself (make sure you have gas first, dont want to have to pull in for petrol 1 mile later!!!

[flemke]

Only slightly sticky part is this:

OP said:

non aggressively increased speed to 70ish to ease past without causing a fuss

On the one hand, you wanted to stay within the speed limit and minimise any indignation that the imbecile in the Vectra might unjustifiably generate. On the other hand, one always wants to minimise the time exposed to danger, which would imply that you ought to have taken your speed up to 80 or more. Any driver that is braindead enough to sit in the offside lane indefinitely is braindead enough to swing abruptly into the nearside lane without checking his blind spot.
There is no remedy for this, apart from having the Vectra driver banned.
In these situations, I look for a slip road that will enable me to create a wider lateral space between my car and the idiot's car as I go past it. Short of that, try to keep your nearside tyres as close to the nearside line as possible.

[EU_Foreigner]

Plenty of times I have had to do the same. I blame it on the non training of motorway driving during lessons as no one seems to know what to do on the motorway.

[vonhosen]

EU_Foreigner said:

Plenty of times I have had to do the same. I blame it on the non training of motorway driving during lessons as no one seems to know what to do on the motorway.

They know what they are supposed to do, it's not much different to any other dual carriageway, they just have different priorities to you & choose to do it the way they do it.

[Distant]

flemke said:

In these situations, I look for a slip road that will enable me to create a wider lateral space between my car and the idiot's car as I go past it. Short of that, try to keep your nearside tyres as close to the nearside line as possible.

So you wait until the time he is most likely to move left without checking his mirrors before you pass?

I agree that you should keep as far left as reasonably possible. I use the hard shoulder as a potential escape route.

[Dr Jekyll]

vonhosen said:

EU_Foreigner said:

Plenty of times I have had to do the same. I blame it on the non training of motorway driving during lessons as no one seems to know what to do on the motorway.

They know what they are supposed to do, it's not much different to any other dual carriageway, they just have different priorities to you & choose to do it the way they do it.

So what is their priority? Inconveniencing others?

[flemke]

Distant said:

flemke said:

In these situations, I look for a slip road that will enable me to create a wider lateral space between my car and the idiot's car as I go past it. Short of that, try to keep your nearside tyres as close to the nearside line as possible.

So you wait until the time he is most likely to move left without checking his mirrors before you pass?

I agree that you should keep as far left as reasonably possible. I use the hard shoulder as a potential escape route.

Entry slip road, onto the motorway.

Truth to tell, it totally depends on the circumstances. My overall rule of thumb in these fairly rare situations is the requirement to make it almost impossible for the other car to hit mine even if the driver were trying to do so. This entails everything from lane width, hard shoulder potential, the agility of my car, previous behaviour of car ahead, how big a speed differential I am comfortable in creating, and whether the road and traffic will allow me to monitor the car ahead/abreast continuously until I am clear of it.

[EU_Foreigner]

vonhosen said:

EU_Foreigner said:

Plenty of times I have had to do the same. I blame it on the non training of motorway driving during lessons as no one seems to know what to do on the motorway.

They know what they are supposed to do, it's not much different to any other dual carriageway, they just have different priorities to you & choose to do it the way they do it.

It either should be penalised the same as red light running or not giving way when required, or it should be made legal to pass in any lane like in the US. This half way house of middle lane hogging and not even the slightest risk of being pulled just does not work.

[Distant]

flemke said:

Distant said:

flemke said:

In these situations, I look for a slip road that will enable me to create a wider lateral space between my car and the idiot's car as I go past it. Short of that, try to keep your nearside tyres as close to the nearside line as possible.

So you wait until the time he is most likely to move left without checking his mirrors before you pass?

I agree that you should keep as far left as reasonably possible. I use the hard shoulder as a potential escape route.

Entry slip road, onto the motorway.

Truth to tell, it totally depends on the circumstances. My overall rule of thumb in these fairly rare situations is the requirement to make it almost impossible for the other car to hit mine even if the driver were trying to do so. This entails everything from lane width, hard shoulder potential, the agility of my car, previous behaviour of car ahead, how big a speed differential I am comfortable in creating, and whether the road and traffic will allow me to monitor the car ahead/abreast continuously until I am clear of it.

I agree with all that, my only reservation is that plod have been known to hide on entry slip roads, where they'd get an excellent view of the manoeuvre.

[flemke]

Distant said:

flemke said:

Distant said:

flemke said:

In these situations, I look for a slip road that will enable me to create a wider lateral space between my car and the idiot's car as I go past it. Short of that, try to keep your nearside tyres as close to the nearside line as possible.

So you wait until the time he is most likely to move left without checking his mirrors before you pass?

I agree that you should keep as far left as reasonably possible. I use the hard shoulder as a potential escape route.

Entry slip road, onto the motorway.

Truth to tell, it totally depends on the circumstances. My overall rule of thumb in these fairly rare situations is the requirement to make it almost impossible for the other car to hit mine even if the driver were trying to do so. This entails everything from lane width, hard shoulder potential, the agility of my car, previous behaviour of car ahead, how big a speed differential I am comfortable in creating, and whether the road and traffic will allow me to monitor the car ahead/abreast continuously until I am clear of it.

I agree with all that, my only reservation is that plod have been known to hide on entry slip roads, where they'd get an excellent view of the manoeuvre.

As I said, for me these are rare situations (1 every 6 mos?).
If I were pulled and chastised, I guess I'd ask the officer what offence I had committed. Other things being equal, I don't see how one could have been driving without due care and attention, or driving carelessly, if one had taken the trouble specifically to wait for, choose and exploit a place where it was possible to maximise the space between oneself and the moron in the wrong lane.

[F i F]

I must admit that in circumstances like this I pull over to the left and let some other mug take the hit in getting them out of the way.

That said when the situation conforms to the standard definition of "congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right," then I have no issues with overtaking on the left in a safe and considerate manner.

[Don]

It's legal to pass on the left.

These days I just do it if there's someone in the way - I find it's best not to wait or to do any flashing of any kind - it just winds them up. Instead just get on with it.

Note by "passing on the left" I do not mean weaving in and out of traffic at speed leaving no margin for error trying to hop up a queue. That's dangerous.

I mean a situation where the driver of a lone car has decided to drive in a right hand lane for no good reason for a period long enough for me to determine that the driver does not intend to pull over. Then, after careful assessment of the safety of the manouvre, I may decide to pass on the left making sure I have an escape route at all times.

[Jayho]

Pees me off heaps! just the other day i was driving into town with a slow car struggling up the hill on the right lane... flashed him to let me know i'm there, was plenty room for him to move to the left... there was no right turn for ages... Once we got past the slightly steeper gradient he just puts his foot down and ends up doing 100mph+!!! i was happy sitting at 75mph... but just the idea that some people who are slow off the roundabout just make up for it by doing a ton... and me who gets reasonable speeds off roundabouts without too much bother and sticks by the law just gets frustrated... uses more petrol for me if i'm stuck behind someone like that... thats why i hate it so much