Another N Wales Village pleads for cameras
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/3518525.stm
1) How can people speed where it isn't possible to get a 'scameravan'?!
I suspect she really means:
"The vans are very big and it is difficult to hide them in the village but Arrive Alive is hoping in the next two months to buy two motorcycles so we can go further into the village," she added.
2) Arrive Deprived are planning on acquiring 2 speed trap motorcycles
Not that I've been to N Wales since OberStrumpfFuhrer Brainstorm ruined it...
3) Is Beth Mitcheson having a bad hair day?
1) How can people speed where it isn't possible to get a 'scameravan'?!
I suspect she really means:
"The vans are very big and it is difficult to hide them in the village but Arrive Alive is hoping in the next two months to buy two motorcycles so we can go further into the village," she added.
2) Arrive Deprived are planning on acquiring 2 speed trap motorcycles
Not that I've been to N Wales since OberStrumpfFuhrer Brainstorm ruined it...
3) Is Beth Mitcheson having a bad hair day?
puggit said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/3518525.stm
3) Is Beth Mitcheson having a bad hair day?
I dont know but I would have thought she would have put on a bit of lippy, and not looked so ghostly
We should be in no doubt that speed cameras are here to stay and villages are perhaps where they belong. I don't have much of a problem sticking close to speed limits in built up areas so long as it doesn't stupidly extend well outside of the built-up boundary (where some authorities think it's a bit of a laugh to put a mobile unit).
However I do seriously object to speed cameras of any description on wide open rural roads in 50, 60 and 70 limits where the likelihood of coming across an inattentive, jay-walking pedestrian is negligible.
However I do seriously object to speed cameras of any description on wide open rural roads in 50, 60 and 70 limits where the likelihood of coming across an inattentive, jay-walking pedestrian is negligible.
I know the village.
I travel that way regularly on the way to Anglesey. The previous village Cerrigydrudion has a bypass which takes the NSL traffic away from the little village streets. At Pentrfoelas the road goes right through the middle of the village with a school and pub on one side. 40mph isn't unreasonable through there.
The scameras won't check speed in the village though - they'll do it on either side and catch people slowing for the village or accelerating away as that is where the convenient "nicking" points will be.
I feel sorry for the villagers. They could do with a bypass just like Cerrig...bugger the speed camera. That's the A5. In Welsh terms its a major through route and we should be speeding it up not slowing it down...
I travel that way regularly on the way to Anglesey. The previous village Cerrigydrudion has a bypass which takes the NSL traffic away from the little village streets. At Pentrfoelas the road goes right through the middle of the village with a school and pub on one side. 40mph isn't unreasonable through there.
The scameras won't check speed in the village though - they'll do it on either side and catch people slowing for the village or accelerating away as that is where the convenient "nicking" points will be.
I feel sorry for the villagers. They could do with a bypass just like Cerrig...bugger the speed camera. That's the A5. In Welsh terms its a major through route and we should be speeding it up not slowing it down...
regmolehusband said:But Reg, not everyone will agree with you. This picking and choosing of which laws to agree with and obey is not right. With people blatantly driving over speed limits it is no wonder that we get all these cameras. How else can this village get a peaceful lifestyle? And why isn't it a 30???
I don't have much of a problem sticking close to speed limits in built up areas
However I do seriously object to speed cameras of any description on wide open rural roads
andrew54 said:
And why isn't it a 30???
Because its a trade off with the fact its a major thoroughfare by Welsh standards and its a village. Also: if you knew the village you'd know that there isn't exactly a lot of it to slow for...which is, of course, part of the problem...
Oh and choosing which laws to obey has always been part of citizenship in any country. If enough people do not obey a law - then it will be got rid of. Look at the poll tax as an example. Nonsensical or unpopular laws will always be subject to civil disobedience.
Know this area very well! Cousin lives around there!
She says motorbikes (especially in tourist season) are main speed culprits through village. As for claim that lorries speed through at 80mph between Pentrefoelas and Ceridruddion (whatever!) per previous thread, she says this does not happen! She agrees that some twazaks are blind with regard to the 40 sign (and would be to a 30 sign as well!), and she would say that the target areas will not be in the tiny village itself - but, as Don says, at the fleece points outside the village.
Note the term "hide" - how does this slow you down if the purpose of the camera is to make you think before you welly it?
She says motorbikes (especially in tourist season) are main speed culprits through village. As for claim that lorries speed through at 80mph between Pentrefoelas and Ceridruddion (whatever!) per previous thread, she says this does not happen! She agrees that some twazaks are blind with regard to the 40 sign (and would be to a 30 sign as well!), and she would say that the target areas will not be in the tiny village itself - but, as Don says, at the fleece points outside the village.
Note the term "hide" - how does this slow you down if the purpose of the camera is to make you think before you welly it?
andrew54 said:
But Reg, not everyone will agree with you. This picking and choosing of which laws to agree with and obey is not right. With people blatantly driving over speed limits it is no wonder that we get all these cameras. How else can this village get a peaceful lifestyle? And why isn't it a 30???
How about disobeying speed limits that have been lowered purely to create a speeding problem and thus grounds for another camera? People are sick of limits being slashed on the flimsiest of evidence.
Pretty soon we're all going to be crawling around at 30mph everywhere, but people will still die. What then? Lower the limit again? Pedestrians, brainwashed into believing that cars doing 30mph are somehow no longer dangerous will pay LESS attention, take MORE risks and consequently MORE will die. This is already happening. I see it every day - people just stepping into the road without looking then abusing the motorist for nearly hitting them. We are discharging everyone bar the motorist of any responsibility, which is a dangerous thing to be doing.
If people believe they are no longer vulnerable they will take more risks. This happens. Put someone in a car with airbags, side impact bars, ABS, traction control and so on and they'll take more risks than in a car with nothing, as they believe themselves to be safer should the unthinkable happen. I think this is why we are seeing more road deaths despite increasing camera enforcement. Cameras are being promoted as such saviours of road safety that people are starting to think that if there aren't cameras, the road is somehow less dangerous. They unknowingly take more risks and crash more often.
Cameras may well reduce accidents on a local basis (ie at the immediate site), but they are causing people to over compensate and take more risks where there is no coverage. Now, either we accept they don't work, bin the lot of them and get back to human policing, driver education and road engineering as the primary means of road safety, or we have cameras on EVERY road, watch car theft, fake plates and general motoring fraud SOAR and live in a police state. Which would you prefer?
hornet said:
But Reg, not everyone will agree with you. This picking and choosing of which laws to agree with and obey is not right. With people blatantly driving over speed limits it is no wonder that we get all these cameras. How else can this village get a peaceful lifestyle? And why isn't it a 30???
How about disobeying speed limits that have been lowered purely to create a speeding problem and thus grounds for another camera? People are sick of limits being slashed on the flimsiest of evidence.
Pretty soon we're all going to be crawling around at 30mph everywhere, but people will still die. What then? Lower the limit again? Pedestrians, brainwashed into believing that cars doing 30mph are somehow no longer dangerous will pay LESS attention, take MORE risks and consequently MORE will die. This is already happening. I see it every day - people just stepping into the road without looking then abusing the motorist for nearly hitting them. We are discharging everyone bar the motorist of any responsibility, which is a dangerous thing to be doing.
If people believe they are no longer vulnerable they will take more risks. This happens. Put someone in a car with airbags, side impact bars, ABS, traction control and so on and they'll take more risks than in a car with nothing, as they believe themselves to be safer should the unthinkable happen. I think this is why we are seeing more road deaths despite increasing camera enforcement. Cameras are being promoted as such saviours of road safety that people are starting to think that if there aren't cameras, the road is somehow less dangerous. They unknowingly take more risks and crash more often.
Cameras may well reduce accidents on a local basis (ie at the immediate site), but they are causing people to over compensate and take more risks where there is no coverage. Now, either we accept they don't work, bin the lot of them and get back to human policing, driver education and road engineering as the primary means of road safety, or we have cameras on EVERY road, watch car theft, fake plates and general motoring fraud SOAR and live in a police state. Which would you prefer?
Well said!!
One of the big problems at Pentrefoelas is that the respect for the 40 mile/h speed limits has been completely eroded. 40 mile/h speed limit is realistic in the village but thanks to local do-gooders it has been extended a few times so that now it reaches for half a mile or more outside the built up area.
Between the village and the Padog bends Beths Scumeras can be found skulking in a layby most summer days whether or not advertised on her website. There are often 2 with trapdoors open in both directions and because of the long straight road after the frustration of the unnecessarily long 40 zone they no doubt make rich pickings.
Ther are several things that the villagers could do in lieu of a bypass including a Pelican crossing.
Andrew54 - just because there are a few houses there should not be an automatic presumption that a 30 limit should be imposed.
Between the village and the Padog bends Beths Scumeras can be found skulking in a layby most summer days whether or not advertised on her website. There are often 2 with trapdoors open in both directions and because of the long straight road after the frustration of the unnecessarily long 40 zone they no doubt make rich pickings.
Ther are several things that the villagers could do in lieu of a bypass including a Pelican crossing.
Andrew54 - just because there are a few houses there should not be an automatic presumption that a 30 limit should be imposed.
andrew54 said:
I don't have much of a problem sticking close to speed limits in built up areas
However I do seriously object to speed cameras of any description on wide open rural roads
But Reg, not everyone will agree with you. This picking and choosing of which laws to agree with and obey is not right. With people blatantly driving over speed limits it is no wonder that we get all these cameras. How else can this village get a peaceful lifestyle? And why isn't it a 30???
With so many absurdly low limits isn't it any wonder that so many drivers are driving above those speeds?
Oh, and in the main, it's the drivers with the better (accident-free) records who are breaking speed limits.
How does a convoy of cars doing 30 instead of a higher speed make for a more peaceful lifestyle?
Slower means more bunched up and taking longer to clear and engines revving just as much as if they were travelling faster but in a higher gear. (And drivers who are more irritated.)
andrew54 said:
Could you describe some of these places with low limits please? I just don't know any. Tell us the type of road and what the limit is, and what you think it should be.
I could give you a list as long as my arm locally to me. For example the A30 heading out of Basingstoke. Now a 50. Used to be NSL. Its even had one of its lanes removed. NO GOOD REASON and its now a cause of rushhour congestion.
The road North from Hungerford to the M3 is another example. Its a 50 with a section of 40. Actually it should be NSL with a (small) section of 40.
I could go on and on.
The national road network is complely filled with rural roads where the speed limit is NSL and actual speeds achieved are normally much lower...except in a few parts where NSL (and beyond) is achievable. Clearly on these roads we are expected to exercise our own judgement...so why enforce 50mph limits on perfectly good dual carriageways.
Speed limits are far too often created with a political agenda (often local) rather than any basis in facts or science...and I can back this up with story after story if you want.
andrew54 said:
I don't have much of a problem sticking close to speed limits in built up areas
However I do seriously object to speed cameras of any description on wide open rural roads
But Reg, not everyone will agree with you. This picking and choosing of which laws to agree with and obey is not right. With people blatantly driving over speed limits it is no wonder that we get all these cameras. How else can this village get a peaceful lifestyle? And why isn't it a 30???
Bacause its a farting little place and the residents knew what it was like when they moved there. There is nothing wrong with picking and chosing laws we obey. In fact most of the great humans who moved the world on a touch in their own lifetime fractured the law on the way. If they hadn't we would still be burning witches.
nonegreen said:
In fact most of the great humans who moved the world on a touch in their own lifetime fractured the law on the way. If they hadn't we would still be burning witches.
Tis true nonegreen I'm saddened that such an obvious fact needs to be explained. Perhaps we should go back to having safety men and red flags walking in front of cars.
andrew54 said:
With so many absurdly low limits.........
Could you describe some of these places with low limits please? I just don't know any. Tell us the type of road and what the limit is, and what you think it should be.
How long have you got?
If you think your driving ability is limited to the speed limits set then fine.
Every where I drive, I see limits too low.
Particularly pathetic are country roads where NSL (i.e. 60mph) used to be the limit, where now the limit is a blanket 40 and sometimes reduced even further to 30mph.
I can't think of a more nannying pathetic way of controlling vehicles, where 40 or 30 mph as a limit may only apply sensibly to maybe one or two corners over many miles of a particular road. What used to be the case in such situations was that a "sharp bend" warning sign was displayed so that, God forbid, people could use their common sense and see that a NSL speed was not appropriate on that particular corner.
Andrew, Liebchen!
Don and James make good points! (and the rest!)
See my post on the "poll" thread!
Lancs Scammers? Favourite pastime: reduce a speed limit on a dual carriageway form 60/50 down to 30. Then whack up a Gatso (usually behind a signpost) or hide a talivan (if they can park it illegally all the better - and hiding under a blanket in the back of the white van - then even better! - the motorists caught should have challenged the photos - they could have been well dodgy! )
Then you have the lovely Lakes. OK - so people may walk along/cross the A591 to and from the carpark. But the 20mph zone they imposed stretches for far too long! When you reach Ambleside - you find that the High Street has 30 limit (not that you can travel at 30 - it would be ill advised given the jaywalkers, day dreamers, and "puddled")
On the 20mph stretches - over 2 miles on each side of the village, there has been talivan activity! There are repeater 20mph signs, but people end up driving at 30mph (and even higher) because road is straight and wide (major artery through Lakes).
At Grasmere - no problem with the 20mph throught the village - you could never drive any faster there anyway! Do not really have great issue with 20mph on A591 at Grasmere EXCEPT - A591 has 20mph stretch far beyond the village, and large speed signs can be missed (obscured) at the garage and the hotel at the mini roundabout! (A591 divides main village from Dove Cottage and a really nice walk - hence need to cut speed at this point!)
But then again the limit stretches on and on - far beyond the danger zone and the talivanners are out there!
Don and James make good points! (and the rest!)
See my post on the "poll" thread!
Lancs Scammers? Favourite pastime: reduce a speed limit on a dual carriageway form 60/50 down to 30. Then whack up a Gatso (usually behind a signpost) or hide a talivan (if they can park it illegally all the better - and hiding under a blanket in the back of the white van - then even better!
- the motorists caught should have challenged the photos - they could have been well dodgy! ) Then you have the lovely Lakes. OK - so people may walk along/cross the A591 to and from the carpark. But the 20mph zone they imposed stretches for far too long! When you reach Ambleside - you find that the High Street has 30 limit (not that you can travel at 30 - it would be ill advised given the jaywalkers, day dreamers, and "puddled")
On the 20mph stretches - over 2 miles on each side of the village, there has been talivan activity! There are repeater 20mph signs, but people end up driving at 30mph (and even higher) because road is straight and wide (major artery through Lakes).
At Grasmere - no problem with the 20mph throught the village - you could never drive any faster there anyway! Do not really have great issue with 20mph on A591 at Grasmere EXCEPT - A591 has 20mph stretch far beyond the village, and large speed signs can be missed (obscured) at the garage and the hotel at the mini roundabout! (A591 divides main village from Dove Cottage and a really nice walk - hence need to cut speed at this point!)
But then again the limit stretches on and on - far beyond the danger zone and the talivanners are out there!
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff