They Really Do Drive Me Mad , These Whingers ! ???
Discussion
Pinched this from another forum!! Typing just what it says for debate purposes!! 
(Andrew Liebchen! Did YOU write this? 
)
From Nottingham Evening Post - Letters!
www.nottinghameveningpost.co.uk/diplayNode.jsp?nodeId=102864&comman
"Mr Edgar Jackson hits the nail on the head (Letters, February 18) when he suggests that speeding drivers should submit themselves for retraining.
"As it happens, many are already doing so throughout the country, with Approved Driving Instructors (ADIs) frequently providing remedial training sessions for drivers who have transgressed, but who, recognising the errors of their ways, have the good grace and common sense to seek correctiv training before it is too late.
"With no Lplates being displayed on the car, to hide embarrassment, it can save a lot of stress and hardship, and spending about £50 for a couple of hours wiith a driving expert is less expensive than a minimum £60 fine with points on the licence for each and subsequent offences, with like loss of licence eventually.
"But most importantly, they can have their problem corrected, quite painlessly, before they possibly kill or seriously injure other people on the roads. The process can be compared to calling a plumber to mend a leaking pipe.
"In the past couple of years, though, Ihave despaired at many whingeing drivers who regularly write to the Post complaining about getting caught by speed cameras, or the installation of traffic-calming measures in the form of humps. They are in total denial, but they have absolutely nobody else to blame other than themselves for allowing their own driving standards to deteriorate to a level that makes them unsafe and unfit to be on the roads. These people claim to never have had a crash and been driving for many years without incident.
"Of course they never admit to the likely hundreds of problems they have caused to other road users by their selfish behaviour. Instead, they throw their teddy bears out of the pram whenever the responsible authorities try to make the roads safe for everybody, or when the cameras catch their smug expressions as they whiz along at totally inappropriate speeds.
"I and others in the driver training business firmly believe that the root of theproblem goes back to the days of these whingers' upbringing: tehy developed a bad attitude earlier in their lives.
"A large dose of selfsihness is what they probably had for breakfast every day, followed by hour upon hour og giving grief to all and sundry.
"When their 17th birthday arived they could not wait to get the cheapest, downmarket driving tuition available with the sole intention of taking just the bare minimum of lessons to scrape through the test after several attempts, quantity rather than quality being the priority of the moment. Then it was dowhill from thereon, ignoring everything they had learned and not caring one iota for anyone else on the roads.
"It is the same scenario whether they wear lounge suits or tracksuits, silly baseball caps or hair extensions, male or female, drive a wreck or a new car. They come for the whole spectrum of society.
"Will things ever change? I doubt it! But I hope they keep paying the fines they owe, as it means less taxes for the honest driver to pay. That thought does cheer me up a little."
NAME AND ADDRESS SUPPLIED!
(Cannot think why this numpty would stay anonymous!
ROPE anyone?
(And did Andrew 
write it! 
(Though in fairness to this bloke - agree with a couple of his points!)
(Andrew Liebchen! Did YOU write this?
) From Nottingham Evening Post - Letters!
www.nottinghameveningpost.co.uk/diplayNode.jsp?nodeId=102864&comman
"Mr Edgar Jackson hits the nail on the head (Letters, February 18) when he suggests that speeding drivers should submit themselves for retraining.
"As it happens, many are already doing so throughout the country, with Approved Driving Instructors (ADIs) frequently providing remedial training sessions for drivers who have transgressed, but who, recognising the errors of their ways, have the good grace and common sense to seek correctiv training before it is too late.
"With no Lplates being displayed on the car, to hide embarrassment, it can save a lot of stress and hardship, and spending about £50 for a couple of hours wiith a driving expert is less expensive than a minimum £60 fine with points on the licence for each and subsequent offences, with like loss of licence eventually.
"But most importantly, they can have their problem corrected, quite painlessly, before they possibly kill or seriously injure other people on the roads. The process can be compared to calling a plumber to mend a leaking pipe.
"In the past couple of years, though, Ihave despaired at many whingeing drivers who regularly write to the Post complaining about getting caught by speed cameras, or the installation of traffic-calming measures in the form of humps. They are in total denial, but they have absolutely nobody else to blame other than themselves for allowing their own driving standards to deteriorate to a level that makes them unsafe and unfit to be on the roads. These people claim to never have had a crash and been driving for many years without incident.
"Of course they never admit to the likely hundreds of problems they have caused to other road users by their selfish behaviour. Instead, they throw their teddy bears out of the pram whenever the responsible authorities try to make the roads safe for everybody, or when the cameras catch their smug expressions as they whiz along at totally inappropriate speeds.
"I and others in the driver training business firmly believe that the root of theproblem goes back to the days of these whingers' upbringing: tehy developed a bad attitude earlier in their lives.
"A large dose of selfsihness is what they probably had for breakfast every day, followed by hour upon hour og giving grief to all and sundry.
"When their 17th birthday arived they could not wait to get the cheapest, downmarket driving tuition available with the sole intention of taking just the bare minimum of lessons to scrape through the test after several attempts, quantity rather than quality being the priority of the moment. Then it was dowhill from thereon, ignoring everything they had learned and not caring one iota for anyone else on the roads.
"It is the same scenario whether they wear lounge suits or tracksuits, silly baseball caps or hair extensions, male or female, drive a wreck or a new car. They come for the whole spectrum of society.
"Will things ever change? I doubt it! But I hope they keep paying the fines they owe, as it means less taxes for the honest driver to pay. That thought does cheer me up a little."
NAME AND ADDRESS SUPPLIED!
(Cannot think why this numpty would stay anonymous!
ROPE anyone?
(And did Andrew write it! (Though in fairness to this bloke - agree with a couple of his points!)
Ah - that's where he's coming from... touting for business!
Don said:
Actually I agree with a lot of his points.
Doesn't mean I think cameras/traffic calming should stay, mind. But driver training is definitely a way forward for improving road safety.
>> Edited by Don on Thursday 26th February 11:19
I do so agree!
This appeared, originally, on the bogush "It's Your Duty" forum - and two of my cousins have posted what I would call fairly sensible replies on there, and still managed to whack back some "acid"! (But then - I would!)
WildCat said:
Pinched this from another forum!! Typing just what it says for debate purposes!!
(Andrew Liebchen! Did YOU write this?
From Nottingham Evening Post - Letters!
Wildcat, others here tell me to get a humour transplant,you just make me laugh, thank-you. But no, I did not write this. I generally keep my views to myself, except on this forum.
And BTW I have enjoyed driving in Switzerland, thanks for reminding me about it. We went to the car museum, brothers Schlumph.
>> Edited by andrew54 on Thursday 26th February 11:57
Can someone please explain to me why speeding is 'selfish'? Most 'speeding' is accidental, barely noticable and victimless. IMO there's nothing more 'selfish' than holding up a huge queue of traffic at 40 in a 60, forcing other drivers into rash manoevers because you want them to abide by your personal rules!
Not sure I like the use of "transgression" and "corrective training". Comes over as some sort of thought police agenda. I'm sure many drivers are in denial about the quality of their driving, but an equal number of people are in denial about slow automatically equalling safe. Advanced driving doesn't just mean sticking to an arbitrary number.
I think he's made a fair point but it's a bit whipped up with 'speeding' rather than bad driving.
If drivers are sailing past bright yellow speed cameras without seeing them then I think driver training is good thing.
I suspect the courses mentioned pay a lot of attention to hazard awareness and the need for appropriate speed rather than just a "don't exceed the speed limit" message.
If drivers are sailing past bright yellow speed cameras without seeing them then I think driver training is good thing.
I suspect the courses mentioned pay a lot of attention to hazard awareness and the need for appropriate speed rather than just a "don't exceed the speed limit" message.
PetrolTed said:
I think he's made a fair point but it's a bit whipped up with 'speeding' rather than bad driving.
If drivers are sailing past bright yellow speed cameras without seeing them then I think driver training is good thing.
I suspect the courses mentioned pay a lot of attention to hazard awareness and the need for appropriate speed rather than just a "don't exceed the speed limit" message.
indeed .. he does use the phrase *inappropriate speed* so he recognises that outright speed isn't the sole issue, just that the measures are forced upon us by those who have poor driving standars and do use excess speed .. it's blanket speed reduction to bring standards of safety for the lowest common numpty ..
i think he is talking a great deal of sense ..
I am amazed. I cannot find any great merit in this. Ok the guy is proposing driver training. Thats about it really. The rest is just a psychotic rant about why drivers who think speed humps are selfish etc. I think I would like to bounce him up and down on his spine a few times to teach him what the purpose of a speed humps is. Then I obvously had a poor upbringing and have a bad attitude. No, carefully considered and dismissed.
andrew54 said:
Pinched this from another forum!! Typing just what it says for debate purposes!!
(Andrew Liebchen! Did YOU write this?
From Nottingham Evening Post - Letters!
Wildcat, others here tell me to get a humour transplant,you just make me laugh, thank-you. But no, I did not write this. I generally keep my views to myself, except on this forum.
And BTW I have enjoyed driving in Switzerland, thanks for reminding me about it. We went to the car museum, brothers Schlumph.
>> Edited by andrew54 on Thursday 26th February 11:57
Liebchen!
Glad I make you laugh! Life is too short to be a grump! Learned that lesson too well when aged 26! DOH! Giving my age away!
Not many things upset me - just speed cameras and talivans
as they seem to me to be an inappropriate and extremely flawed and absurd way of promoting safety.
As said - agree very much with this bloke's ideas on driver training, but consider he focused too much on the "speed is sinful" argument.
But then - no secret what I think on scam issue!
I recently had a smash - Piccasso Woman turned right into the side of me as I was overtaking her. She was not indicating and had braked and moved to left and was almost stationary when I started my manovere.
Now I am sure that she is to blame, but having had my car written off and been very shook up i started to drive very very cautiously. So cautiously that I nearly had about 10 accidents in the next 5 days.
I have taken to driving as assertively as before and I'd like to say my attempt to retrain myself was a failure. Driving slower is not the answer for me. But being MORE aware of other road idiots is.
Also backing off for Piccassos is a new rule. You never know what they are going to do.
Now I am sure that she is to blame, but having had my car written off and been very shook up i started to drive very very cautiously. So cautiously that I nearly had about 10 accidents in the next 5 days.
I have taken to driving as assertively as before and I'd like to say my attempt to retrain myself was a failure. Driving slower is not the answer for me. But being MORE aware of other road idiots is.
Also backing off for Piccassos is a new rule. You never know what they are going to do.
The person who wrote that is an arse. He makes a couple of good points and the drowns it all out with complete b
ks about anyone who complains about humps and speed cameras must be a twisted bitter person who is an accident waiting to happen.
And what is wrong with a person who has been driving for years and has not crashed or had any incidents for years? Okay, we all know the jokes about "never having had a accident but seen lots" but isn't the reality that someone who has been driving for years without a crash isn't just lucky?
>> Edited by icamm on Thursday 26th February 16:22
ks about anyone who complains about humps and speed cameras must be a twisted bitter person who is an accident waiting to happen. And what is wrong with a person who has been driving for years and has not crashed or had any incidents for years? Okay, we all know the jokes about "never having had a accident but seen lots" but isn't the reality that someone who has been driving for years without a crash isn't just lucky?
>> Edited by icamm on Thursday 26th February 16:22
andrew54 said:
I generally keep my views to myself, except on this forum.
Why's that, then?
Are you going to answer the question I asked on the poll thread, namely.......
You confirmed you weren't entangled with T2000/BRAKE.......what other similar groups do you belong to/support/work for..........?
mybrainhurts said:In normal day to day life I do not keep my views on speed entirely to myself, but on this forum their are so many instances where contributors have amazed me with thier extreme views that I have felt compelled to rant and repeat my views. Your question ref T2000/BRAKE--- I'm not with any similar groups. You may have persuaded me to join BRAKE soon.
I generally keep my views to myself, except on this forum.
Why's that, then?
Are you going to answer the question I asked on the poll thread, namely.......
You confirmed you weren't entangled with T2000/BRAKE.......what other similar groups do you belong to/support/work for..........?
andrew54 said:
Your question ref T2000/BRAKE--- I'm not with any similar groups. You may have persuaded me to join BRAKE soon.
Go on, then.
And tell Mary I claim commission. A Mars bar will suffice on this occasion.
Mary's website says :
Brake believes in working with others to develop its recommended policies. This includes keeping up-to-date with relevant research findings and talking to people, including drivers, bikers, cyclists, pedestrians, police officers, local authorities and companies to find out their opinions
Just think, you'll be able to pass on all the good advice from here that Mary deems unworthy of consideration. That is, of course, providing you're not really Mary in drag............?
I think it's important that we retain our sense of reason where other groups are losing their's.
Balanced and calm argument is a better tool that aggression.
Aside from some questionable policies, BRAKE do a lot of good work. Let's not fall into the pigeonholes that the media would have us in of 'drivers' on one side of the argument and 'safety campaigners' on the other. The cross over is huge and it's manipulative and short sighted of the media to try and line up everyone on opposing sides.
If Andrew wants to join Brake then so what? I don't have a problem with that. Andrew has made a lot of good points here despite disagreeing on one aspect. I think the man deserves more respect than he's being shown here. I suspect he's made the comment in light of provocation from some here and it's had a very predictable and knee jerk effect. Think for yourselves chaps...
Adult conversation for adults. Finger pointing and pigeonholing elsewhere please...
Balanced and calm argument is a better tool that aggression.
Aside from some questionable policies, BRAKE do a lot of good work. Let's not fall into the pigeonholes that the media would have us in of 'drivers' on one side of the argument and 'safety campaigners' on the other. The cross over is huge and it's manipulative and short sighted of the media to try and line up everyone on opposing sides.
If Andrew wants to join Brake then so what? I don't have a problem with that. Andrew has made a lot of good points here despite disagreeing on one aspect. I think the man deserves more respect than he's being shown here. I suspect he's made the comment in light of provocation from some here and it's had a very predictable and knee jerk effect. Think for yourselves chaps...
Adult conversation for adults. Finger pointing and pigeonholing elsewhere please...
Couldn't agree more Ted, you know I value an opposing opinion as much as the next man and I believe it's vital to have a balanced debate about these issues. PH is by nature a forum for car enthusiasts and as such will tend towards a polarised view of matters especially when we see the depths some memebrs of Brake and the press will sink to.
I just don't like Andrew and his pomposity gets on my tits, sorry
I just don't like Andrew and his pomposity gets on my tits, sorry
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