guidlines/regulations: siting of speed cameras

[ian d]

i have been doing a bit of searching but have been unable to find any "SI/guideline/regulations on the siting of speed cameras".

surely they must exist in order for the "authorities" to site them in the correct place.

does anyone know or can direct me to the Statutory Instrument, guideline or act that details their siting.

get the facts first before joining battle, if it can be proven a camera is mis-sited i.a.w. the above, it should be removed?

[streaky]

See: www.safespeed.org.uk/rules.html

[ian d]

looking at that link and what is available on the "DfT pilot scheme, dated 11 feb 03", i believe without an SI or Act you could legally challenge the placing of every camera in the UK.

an answer from a "legal eagle" would be helpful.

>> Edited by ian d on Thursday 26th February 16:39

[Peter Ward]

There's some great statements in the DfT document "Circular Roads 1/93" quoted by Safespeed. Here's a flavour:

doc said:

THE USE OF SPEED LIMITS 5. The main purpose of specific speed limits is to provide for situations where it is appropriate for drivers to adopt a speed which is lower than the national speed limit. That limit does not imply that it is a safe speed under all conditions and drivers should adopt still lower speeds if conditions warrant. The establishment of speed limits is also a method through which legal sanctions can be brought to bear on those who drive markedly faster than is reasonable on that road. Specific speed limits cannot, on their own, be expected to reduce vehicle speed if they are set at a level substantially below that at which drivers would choose to drive in the absence of a limit.

Now when did the country lose sight of that simple bold statement? And note the "markedly"!

doc said:

GENERAL PRINCIPLES 6. The following general principles will be applied in setting speed limits on trunk roads. It is recommended that these same factors be considered by Local Traffic Authorities in setting speed limits on the roads for which they are responsible. 6.1 Local speed limits are normally unnecessary where the character of the road itself limits the speed of most vehicles (say 95%) to a level at or below the of that limit under consideration. 6.2 Accidents should be a factor in determining the necessity of imposing a limit and might help justify the cost of engineering measures. Limits may be introduced because of a poor accident record, however it is not axiomatic that a speed limit is the best cure; Conversely the lack of an accident history should not of itself rule out introducing a limit.

The whole doc is worth reading: www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_505174.pdf

When did we lose sight of this stuff? 1997?




>> Edited by Peter Ward on Thursday 26th February 20:16

[ian d]

it certainly makes interesting reading. i suspect that "most" of the cameras on our roads do not meet these guideines. however how do you challenge them. i suspect as said on the safespeed site that the guidelines are secret and unless a copy becomes available no challenge can be mounted.

i think the only way for the D of T to come clean is to press them via parliament. a friendly MP is required, but when has this government ever "come clean"?

[Dwight VanDriver]

Ian D.

The reference Peter W gives is for Circular Roads 1/93 which is advice from HMG to LA"s in respect of Speed limts. not camera siting.

Have a look at

www.tinyurl.com/wyvz

which is Circular Roads 22/92, and also

www.tinyurl.com/wyvn

advice from the Transport Min.

DVD

[ian d]

many many thanks, reading these and the other links over the past few days, i think that the majority of cameras in the UK are not sited i.a.w. the guidelines. unless there are current guidelines which are not in the public domain. i have written to an MP detailing these and i have also ordered an SI from the previous Parliament, now out of print, but a copy is obtainable from HMSO for further reading.

if it could be proven that the guidelines for the siting of cameras are being on the whole ignored, regards accident statisics and average speeds, an effort could be made to have the offending cameras removed on a case by case basis. you never know until you try!

[Peter Ward]

Dwight VanDriver said:

Ian D. The reference Peter W gives is for Circular Roads 1/93 which is advice from HMG to LAs in respect of Speed limts, not camera siting. DVD

Sorry, got carried away by the link higher up. There's some good stuff in your links as well. Note how there's paragraphs that spoil everything, such as:

"Covert operations can in exceptional circumstances be allowed but must be recorded by the partnership"

This destroys the argument that scamera vans will always be visible. Of course every covert operation will be recorded -- eventually.

"The national project board will not accept the use of alternative colours on an area basis. However, if for any reason highway authorities consider that there are special circumstances for some site locations, for example in areas of outstanding natural beauty, then a case needs to be made to the project board"

This destroys the argument that Gatsos will always be yellow. A case will be made for every non-yellow, non-visible Gatso -- eventually.

So in reality there are strict regulations for both but easy loopholes as well.