A303 Scamervan - Just had a chat
Discussion
Just had a very pleasant chat with a camera operator on the A303 westbound at Amesbury. His little LDV van was on the brigde overseeing the 40mph limit in the roadworks at the new IndustrialHenge site just going up. So I thought I'd say hello & gather some info.
He was a proper trafpol policeman, been there about two hours and caught 40 people, some doing 80mph!.
The trigger speed was over 50mph. The van was blatantly obvious from half a mile away & the roadworks were fully active with lots of workers about.
I asked if they had discretion on the site location, he showed me a booklet with all the locations & a list of KSI's etc etc. He said he chose the most obviously dangerous locations.
He was very keen to point out that they (his force) don't like hiding their talivans like some others do, as he thought it was better to let see people see him, if they still got caught fair cop. He said some of the other forces (guess who) were acting overzealously & bringing down the reputation of the police. I read that as internal complaints!!!
He said that number of people that now stop & complain at him was pretty frequent, especially in the villages & all sorts will complain.
The camera was set up FACING AWAY & targetting the REAR of the car. Interestingly as he was a policeman the video evidence & laser was corrobarating his view that someone was speeding. (What happens with a civi operator then?). He also said it was capable of operating at night with extra kit supplied in the van, worked up to 1000m away, but they only use the it for less 500m ranges.
He was aware that some jammers appeared to work rather well. I got the impression that they are not the uncommon nowadays.
He said he was dead against raising speed limits as the standard of driving was really bad & would have to be improved first. He also said he thinks it has deteriorated lots in the past 5 years as far too many people have gotten complacent & too old.
Then we got onto the subject of if you want to go fast you need to do trackdays, sounds like he's done a few too.
So if it's you reading this, top bloke for making lots of sense, I hope you have some influence further down the line.
Many thanks for the info
>>> Edited by cptsideways on Tuesday 9th August 08:33
He was a proper trafpol policeman, been there about two hours and caught 40 people, some doing 80mph!.
The trigger speed was over 50mph. The van was blatantly obvious from half a mile away & the roadworks were fully active with lots of workers about.
I asked if they had discretion on the site location, he showed me a booklet with all the locations & a list of KSI's etc etc. He said he chose the most obviously dangerous locations.
He was very keen to point out that they (his force) don't like hiding their talivans like some others do, as he thought it was better to let see people see him, if they still got caught fair cop. He said some of the other forces (guess who) were acting overzealously & bringing down the reputation of the police. I read that as internal complaints!!!
He said that number of people that now stop & complain at him was pretty frequent, especially in the villages & all sorts will complain.
The camera was set up FACING AWAY & targetting the REAR of the car. Interestingly as he was a policeman the video evidence & laser was corrobarating his view that someone was speeding. (What happens with a civi operator then?). He also said it was capable of operating at night with extra kit supplied in the van, worked up to 1000m away, but they only use the it for less 500m ranges.
He was aware that some jammers appeared to work rather well. I got the impression that they are not the uncommon nowadays.
He said he was dead against raising speed limits as the standard of driving was really bad & would have to be improved first. He also said he thinks it has deteriorated lots in the past 5 years as far too many people have gotten complacent & too old.
Then we got onto the subject of if you want to go fast you need to do trackdays, sounds like he's done a few too.
So if it's you reading this, top bloke for making lots of sense, I hope you have some influence further down the line.
Many thanks for the info
>>> Edited by cptsideways on Tuesday 9th August 08:33
So thats £2400.00 in 2 hours then, good that, cost effective deployment. How many burglars were caught in the same 2 hours? I understand that you just met a decent guy just doing his job. His managers are the lowest form of scum though. Remember this is a war on the ordinary people for which none of these idiots have a mandate. Anywhere other than Britain this would result in riots and talivans being burned in the streets. I accept all the arguments about driving standards but you do not set poor standards and then deliberately increase the hazards followed by rigorous targetting of offenders. By comparison, if an employer appointed someone who was clearly not suitable, then set targets for performance that were not achievable the fired the person, they would be in a tribuneral faster than you could say unfair. This government are completely incompetent or perhaps inculcated with evil. Is this the final battle to reduce the people to an uneducated rabble who cower before unworthy authority? Time for our own version of Madam la guilotine to be rolled into Trafalger square. Lets have the head of David Begg to start the fun with. 
This in no way constitutes a death threat but merely suggests that if the will of the people is to dethrone currupt leaders and their advisors then there are many and varied legitimate ways of doing so. Historically the methods have been brutal but in modern times may well be more humane
This in no way constitutes a death threat but merely suggests that if the will of the people is to dethrone currupt leaders and their advisors then there are many and varied legitimate ways of doing so. Historically the methods have been brutal but in modern times may well be more humane
I get your points lads, but he was a trafpol at least & was using his discretion. Not what I was expecting I must say.
Plus this was one place where there was a hazard, ie the number of workers, the contraflow etc. In fact the traffic was stopped at one point for some machinery to move.
As for agreeing with the whole picture then read my other posts I am not camera friendly AT ALL.
If it was midnight & empty then I would be dead against it.
However he did say his force was NOT being overzealous with them. Other forces blatantly were.
So the point is, there is some internal debate going on about this exact aspect no doubt through the actions of the public, ABD, SS, etc etc, so they are listening.
Plus this was one place where there was a hazard, ie the number of workers, the contraflow etc. In fact the traffic was stopped at one point for some machinery to move.
As for agreeing with the whole picture then read my other posts I am not camera friendly AT ALL.
If it was midnight & empty then I would be dead against it.
However he did say his force was NOT being overzealous with them. Other forces blatantly were.
So the point is, there is some internal debate going on about this exact aspect no doubt through the actions of the public, ABD, SS, etc etc, so they are listening.
RichardD said:
Can I ask at what point (speed) he decided to knab people please? I ask this as I passed a tali-van recently doing about 44 in a 40. Couple of days afterward I discovered the van locations/dates published on the www. Have nervously been checking the post every night since...
51mph or greater, a van went through at 50 on the dot, did'nt get done.
RichardD said:
Can I ask at what point (speed) he decided to knab people please? I ask this as I passed a tali-van recently doing about 44 in a 40. Couple of days afterward I discovered the van locations/dates published on the www.
You'll be fine I guess, usualy its a minimum of 10%speed +1, i.e. 45 in a 40.
Plus your speedo will over read by up to 5% so you'll be doing less than the indicated 44mph anyhow.
cptsideways said:
I get your points lads, but he was a trafpol at least & was using his discretion. Not what I was expecting I must say.
Plus this was one place where there was a hazard, ie the number of workers, the contraflow etc. In fact the traffic was stopped at one point for some machinery to move.
As for agreeing with the whole picture then read my other posts I am not camera friendly AT ALL.
If it was midnight & empty then I would be dead against it.
However he did say his force was NOT being overzealous with them. Other forces blatantly were.
So the point is, there is some internal debate going on about this exact aspect no doubt through the actions of the public, ABD, SS, etc etc, so they are listening.
Please don't misunderstand I am not having a go at you or your post. You clearly met the kind of cop we all want to see. I know you hate the cameras er! a bit (in comparison to me
) I generally think your posts are good otherwise I wouldn't read them. The point I was making is that this needs to have a complete shift in policy on road safety, not just a make over. A good man is trying to be fair to everyone within a system that is flawed to the point of being a disgrace. Fair play to him but I fear he is in the minority and by his own admission so does he. 
RobDickinson said:
Plus your speedo will over read by up to 5% so you'll be doing less than the indicated 44mph anyhow.
Thanks cpt also!
Yes, it would be very annoying after err making rapid progress on back b roads in lightweight kitcar for many a year and also riding a rather nippy motorbike - to get nobbled in a Diesel yawnmobile going so slowly that the Turbo wasn't even spinning.
Have heard of people being done for just a couple over the limit, but hopefully these will have been exaggerated urban myths.
If they DID get me, then I think I would pay entirely in two pence pieces.
RichardD said:
Have heard of people being done for just a couple over the limit, but hopefully these will have been exaggerated urban myths.
My father was done for 32 in a 30 a few years ago. I guess now he'd be sent on a "speed awareness course" that you can't pass unless you agree with the brainwashing doublespeak.
blueyes said:
Just curious, anybody know the KSI figures ( and the %involving excessive speed) for roadworks?
Its several KSI's a month on average UK wide!, hence the contractors were obliged to request a speed camera on site so many times a week. Not sure if excessive speed has anything to do it with though I must agree.
Did'nt they put concrete barriers around the M25 works as it stopped KSI's dead so to speak.
cptsideways said:
So the point is, there is some internal debate going on about this exact aspect no doubt through the actions of the public, ABD, SS, etc etc, so they are listening.
Absolutely correct old fruit. As I said on another post somewhere, 'take a bow Paul Smith, Idris Francis, Peter Ward, ABD and all the others who have bitched, moaned, lobbied MPs and emailed 'Partnerships' Chief Constables and papers.....it was not in vain
blueyes said:
Just curious, anybody know the KSI figures ( and the %involving excessive speed) for roadworks?
On a related subject, wandered down the M1 yesterday - between 17 and 13 - and passed two areas where a 50 limit had been imposed as the safety barriers were incomplete (in both cases around a bridge pillar). However, apart from the usual proliferation of cones there was no sign of anything being done. Is this a sign of the times? Ignore getting the work done, just whack a lot of cones in and then impose an irrelevant speed limit.
tone said:
blueyes said:
Just curious, anybody know the KSI figures ( and the %involving excessive speed) for roadworks?
On a related subject, wandered down the M1 yesterday - between 17 and 13 - and passed two areas where a 50 limit had been imposed as the safety barriers were incomplete (in both cases around a bridge pillar). However, apart from the usual proliferation of cones there was no sign of anything being done. Is this a sign of the times? Ignore getting the work done, just whack a lot of cones in and then impose an irrelevant speed limit.
I asked the same thing in another thread - www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=83545&f=10&h=0&hw=M1
Still none the wiser though. Guess it has something to do with the Police Speed Check signs that are in the same roadworks.
>> Edited by d-man on Friday 27th February 15:24
blueyes said:
Just curious, anybody know the KSI figures ( and the %involving excessive speed) for roadworks?
I've searched and searched and found absolutely nothing. There's a USA report, and it's rubbish. The whole thing might be balony. If it isn't I don't know where the facts are hiding.
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
blueyes said:
Just curious, anybody know the KSI figures ( and the %involving excessive speed) for roadworks?
I've tried to find the same thing, plus the reasoning that goes into deciding whether the temporary limit should be 50, 40 or something else. I've found nothing to date. Must be an official secret, so look out for a cabinet minister to tell us soon....
In the article "The Road's Shut OK" on Pistonheads
www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=8054 it claims
"Figures show that 11 people were killed in Highways Agency road works between October 2000 and February 2002 by moving traffic. This equates to a 1 in 1000 chance of being killed."
Don't ask me how they get this figure though.
>> Edited by icamm on Friday 27th February 18:07
www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=8054 it claims
"Figures show that 11 people were killed in Highways Agency road works between October 2000 and February 2002 by moving traffic. This equates to a 1 in 1000 chance of being killed."
Don't ask me how they get this figure though.
>> Edited by icamm on Friday 27th February 18:07
nonegreen said:
So thats £2400.00 in 2 hours then, good that, cost effective deployment. How many burglars were caught in the same 2 hours? I understand that you just met a decent guy just doing his job. His managers are the lowest form of scum though. Remember this is a war on the ordinary people for which none of these idiots have a mandate. Anywhere other than Britain this would result in riots and talivans being burned in the streets. I accept all the arguments about driving standards but you do not set poor standards and then deliberately increase the hazards followed by rigorous targetting of offenders. By comparison, if an employer appointed someone who was clearly not suitable, then set targets for performance that were not achievable the fired the person, they would be in a tribuneral faster than you could say unfair. This government are completely incompetent or perhaps inculcated with evil. Is this the final battle to reduce the people to an uneducated rabble who cower before unworthy authority? Time for our own version of Madam la guilotine to be rolled into Trafalger square. Lets have the head of David Begg to start the fun with.
This in no way constitutes a death threat but merely suggests that if the will of the people is to dethrone currupt leaders and their advisors then there are many and varied legitimate ways of doing so. Historically the methods have been brutal but in modern times may well be more humane
I couldn't agree more. We really are witnessing the creation of an uneducated rabble with no moral fibre or guts to think for themselves and take responsibility for themselves. Blame someone else, claim if possible, CCTVed everywhere, blanket imposition of low speed limits removing the chance to think for yourself, dumbing down of school exams, money pumped into areas where the stupid seem to run in front of cars a lot...Feather-bedded, soft and beaten into submission. (Well, a lot of people anyway.)...and I think the nannying starts right from the school years GRRRRRRR.
james_j said:
So thats £2400.00 in 2 hours then, good that, cost effective deployment. How many burglars were caught in the same 2 hours? I understand that you just met a decent guy just doing his job. His managers are the lowest form of scum though. Remember this is a war on the ordinary people for which none of these idiots have a mandate. Anywhere other than Britain this would result in riots and talivans being burned in the streets. I accept all the arguments about driving standards but you do not set poor standards and then deliberately increase the hazards followed by rigorous targetting of offenders. By comparison, if an employer appointed someone who was clearly not suitable, then set targets for performance that were not achievable the fired the person, they would be in a tribuneral faster than you could say unfair. This government are completely incompetent or perhaps inculcated with evil. Is this the final battle to reduce the people to an uneducated rabble who cower before unworthy authority? Time for our own version of Madam la guilotine to be rolled into Trafalger square. Lets have the head of David Begg to start the fun with.
This in no way constitutes a death threat but merely suggests that if the will of the people is to dethrone currupt leaders and their advisors then there are many and varied legitimate ways of doing so. Historically the methods have been brutal but in modern times may well be more humane
I couldn't agree more. We really are witnessing the creation of an uneducated rabble with no moral fibre or guts to think for themselves and take responsibility for themselves. Blame someone else, claim if possible, CCTVed everywhere, blanket imposition of low speed limits removing the chance to think for yourself, dumbing down of school exams, money pumped into areas where the stupid seem to run in front of cars a lot...Feather-bedded, soft and beaten into submission. (Well, a lot of people anyway.)...and I think the nannying starts right from the school years GRRRRRRR.
the force is strong in this one
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff