Would harsh sentances deter criminals?
Discussion
My best mates sapphire Cosworth got broken into on Monday night, thankfully the retards couldn't start it, so left it dumped at the bottom of his road. 
...
The copper who turned up (who was very helpful and actually interested!)got talking to us, and expressed his frustration that even in the unlikely event they could catch the scum involved (no witnesses,cameras or forensic evidence), if they did manage to put them infront of the courts, that they would be given a slap on the wrists, usually for the umpteenth time, and basically let off. Reading the local rag, the courts section makes for interesting & distressing reading, with examples of TWOC/ theft of a motor vehicle attracting fines of £250 and £35 costs!!!!
The problem being that supposedly prisons are full, so spaces are saved for the worst offenders.
But in my eyes, making crime/theft so unappealing in the first place would have a big impact on offences, and hitting criminals who burgle homes & businesses, and steal cars hard would send a real message out that if you steal, you do time.
IMHO, the very first time you get caught stealing, it should be a 1 year sentance, with no parole. Get caught again, 5 years, no parole. Third time 10 years, etc... If sentances are long enough to make the value of crime totally disproportional, it would cut out a lot of "minor" crimes like motor vehicle theft, burglary etc?
...The copper who turned up (who was very helpful and actually interested!)got talking to us, and expressed his frustration that even in the unlikely event they could catch the scum involved (no witnesses,cameras or forensic evidence), if they did manage to put them infront of the courts, that they would be given a slap on the wrists, usually for the umpteenth time, and basically let off. Reading the local rag, the courts section makes for interesting & distressing reading, with examples of TWOC/ theft of a motor vehicle attracting fines of £250 and £35 costs!!!!
The problem being that supposedly prisons are full, so spaces are saved for the worst offenders.
But in my eyes, making crime/theft so unappealing in the first place would have a big impact on offences, and hitting criminals who burgle homes & businesses, and steal cars hard would send a real message out that if you steal, you do time.
IMHO, the very first time you get caught stealing, it should be a 1 year sentance, with no parole. Get caught again, 5 years, no parole. Third time 10 years, etc... If sentances are long enough to make the value of crime totally disproportional, it would cut out a lot of "minor" crimes like motor vehicle theft, burglary etc?
Here in belgium I often get the feeling I pay more in fines than some of the bigger offenders over the year.
We've always had a store at home, and when the cops were called when we had a shoplifter (either caught red handed or on tape), they were always let go after they gave the goods back (no fine whatsoever).
When I get flashed for "dangerous (read: fast) driving", I don't get my fine back after it turns out I've never had an accident in my life???
Edit: not to my fault of course
We've always had a store at home, and when the cops were called when we had a shoplifter (either caught red handed or on tape), they were always let go after they gave the goods back (no fine whatsoever).
When I get flashed for "dangerous (read: fast) driving", I don't get my fine back after it turns out I've never had an accident in my life???
Edit: not to my fault of course
Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 27th May 07:40
Thought this for a while....
Police do a good enough job it's the courts that have country in the situation it is in.
Loads of suggestions:
-first of all a good clip around the ear with police battons would be welcomed with no fear of human right comebacks.
-longer sentences (obviously)
-public humiliation
-lesser comfortable prisions (no tv's, sports activities), we could then build more prisons with the money saved.
-instant deportation for criminal immigrants
-like for like compensation.
-
Police do a good enough job it's the courts that have country in the situation it is in.
Loads of suggestions:
-first of all a good clip around the ear with police battons would be welcomed with no fear of human right comebacks.
-longer sentences (obviously)
-public humiliation
-lesser comfortable prisions (no tv's, sports activities), we could then build more prisons with the money saved.
-instant deportation for criminal immigrants
-like for like compensation.
-
Edited by Torquey on Thursday 27th May 08:55
Edited by Torquey on Thursday 27th May 08:58
The emphasis is on rehabilitation and the fact these youngsters are victims. They try diversion and then rehabilitation and a custodial sentence simply introduces them to hardened criminals and becomes a university of crime often strengthening their resolve to escalate their offending. The cost to the taxpayer is also ridiculous and as we all know, the prisons are full and they don't want to build any more.
The privileges are to do with the scrotes playing the system. As long as they plead not guilty and remain unconvicted, they are entitled to all their privileges. They eventually plead guilty and that period on remand comes off their sentence so it pays them to plead not guilty.
The system is open to abuse and defence lawyers get paid for contesting cases. The only losers are the victims and the taxpayers and even at liberty, they all claim benefits and seem to have two council houses - one for themselves and one where they live with their "partner". The whole house of cards needs tearing down and rebuilding.
The privileges are to do with the scrotes playing the system. As long as they plead not guilty and remain unconvicted, they are entitled to all their privileges. They eventually plead guilty and that period on remand comes off their sentence so it pays them to plead not guilty.
The system is open to abuse and defence lawyers get paid for contesting cases. The only losers are the victims and the taxpayers and even at liberty, they all claim benefits and seem to have two council houses - one for themselves and one where they live with their "partner". The whole house of cards needs tearing down and rebuilding.
Torquey said:
-lesser comfortable prisions (no tv's, sports activities), we could then build more prisons with the money saved.
I hear that so often yet it completely misses the point. Firstly, put the investment in to make prison a place of rehabilitation. Help imates lose drug habits, teach them to read and write and give them valid work skills applicable to employment outside of prison. Get them to leave prison as better employment prospects than when they went in.
Secondly, hand out longer sentences with ARD release conditional on completion of pre-determined educational courses in prison. Prisoners are already given a Pre Sentence Report by probation. I would be prepared to accept the tax cost of an additional educational assessment give with that.
Prison does not and will not work if the sentences are very short and no work is done on the prisoner to empower them to lead different lives outside. Whilst not every criminal has in interest in becoming legitimate, an awful lot feel trapped by their circumstances and that there is no alternative to income from crime.
It's not about being left or right wing on the issue, it's about accepting it's the causes rather than symptoms that need the treatment and using the facilities we have to make the best of it.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Carfiend said:
I think shooting them would be a good deterrent.
Anywhere in particular? Maybe just a flesh wound first or full on joint?Will harsh punishments deter criminals? Of course not. Public hangings used to be all the rage in this country but that didn't result in a shortage of unwilling participants.
Personally, I'd say economics have a greater influence on crime levels than punishment does.
There has never been a time when crime, inequality and injustice have not been rife, regardless of the type of punishment in place.
Personally, I'd say economics have a greater influence on crime levels than punishment does.
There has never been a time when crime, inequality and injustice have not been rife, regardless of the type of punishment in place.
Edited by Risotto on Thursday 27th May 09:37
Deva Link said:
Harsh sentences haven't reduced crime in the US, even the "3 strikes and you're out" rule or the death penalty for murder.
... however the prison population in the US contribute a great deal to the countries economy by being utilised as a manufacturing resource for all manner of products, and not just licence plates.That is a great idea that would be crushed in seconds if they tried to impliment it over here. It would be deemed as a massive infringment of the poor little misguided souls human rights for one.
The punishment isn't that relevant.
Many/most crims don't think they are going to get caught.
Those that do think they may get caught don't think they'll go down (lack of "evidence" etc. etc.).
So the punishment deters only those that think they may get caught and then subsequently sent down.
Many/most crims don't think they are going to get caught.
Those that do think they may get caught don't think they'll go down (lack of "evidence" etc. etc.).
So the punishment deters only those that think they may get caught and then subsequently sent down.
HArsh sentances - e.g. Death Penataly in teh US doesn't lower offence rates that have that sentance applied to them.
It would seem to me that the sentance is not the deterrance but it's the chance of getting caught that would act as an effective deterrance.
You see people driving like complete muppets when there are non BioBs around but stick a marked car on the road and you'll see everyone driving like angels.
It would seem to me that the sentance is not the deterrance but it's the chance of getting caught that would act as an effective deterrance.
You see people driving like complete muppets when there are non BioBs around but stick a marked car on the road and you'll see everyone driving like angels.
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