does this sound like the right thing to do?

[mongoose]

just received my first nip today(76 in a 60 on an 'a' road) and basically im looking for some reassurance.ive read through many threads on here regarding what to do,so i thought id try the following.im going to send the nip back without filling in or signing any part of it.ill attatch a letter(unsigned) saying that i think i was somewhere else at the time in question,and could they provide me with a photo to help identify the driver and jog my memory.does all this sound like the best approach?all comments and advice greatly appreciated.

[NugentS]

I sent the following letter

Dear Sir,

With regard to the Notice of Impending Prosecution dated xx/xx/xxxx that I received today. Would you please send me copies of your technical and photographic evidence so that I can review it. As I am sure you are aware there are cases of cars (or rather number plates) being cloned to avoid things such as speeding tickets and congestion charges including I am told one car that hasn’t left the Motor Heritage Museum for many many years gaining a considerable total in congestion charge fines although it may just be an Urban Legend.

However, given the issue above, I am unable to complete the form until I can review the evidence available.

Thank you for your time and attention in this matter.
-----------------------------------------------

Don't do anything with the NIP until near the 28 days.

[mongoose]

cheers Sean,did you have any luck with your nip after?

[jeffreyarcher]

Was the first NIP in the chain, the one to the registered keeper, sent within 13 days of the offence?
Did it specify the location to an accuracy of better than 4 miles?

Keep an eye out for developments on the Idris Francis High Court appeal on whether you have to sign the form. Round one is in the High Court on Tuesday 16/3/03.

[NugentS]

mongoose said:

cheers Sean,did you have any luck with your nip after?

They sent me photos. I didn't sign the NIP afterwards and am still waiting.

[mongoose]

jeffreyarcher said:

Was the first NIP in the chain, the one to the registered keeper, sent within 13 days of the offence? Did it specify the location to an accuracy of better than 4 miles?

the nip was sent to me,the registered keeper and sent 12 days after the alleged offence.the location is also specified as being 'at(place)A**(SOUTHEAST)NEAR,******* ********(SITE ***)'.i must admit,i dont know where this location is,but i assume theyve pinpointed it to within 4 miles of the alledged offence? thanks for taking an interest jeffrey.

[jeffreyarcher]

mongoose,
Forget to say, was it sent by 1st class (or better) post?

[mongoose]

jeffrey,it was sent by std post.cant remember whether first or second.but it certainly wasnt recorded.nip is dated 05/03/2004 and it arrived on the sixth,so i assume it was first class.alleged offence took place on the 22/02/2004.what you thinking then-cheers,mv

[jeffreyarcher]

mongoose said:

it was sent by std post.cant remember whether first or second.but it certainly wasnt recorded.nip is dated 05/03/2004 and it arrived on the sixth,so i assume it was first class. <...> what you thinking then

It doesn't have to be recorded, however, it does have to be first class; second class is not sufficient.
As you have pointed out, though, from the time taken, it probably was first class.

[wanty1974]

Out of interest, 17% of all second class mail gets delivered the next day...

[mongoose]

i decided to ignore 1st nip,then another(duplicate)came.so i waited 28 days,before returning it unsigned and not filled in at all.i enclosed a letter saying the following:- "a look back in my diary tells me that i was in ******** on the day this alleged offence took place,which is of course no where near the site of the alleged incident.if you could send me full photographic/video evidence to help me identify the car/driver,ill do my best.i would very much like to help assist you in this matter,but as im sure your aware,there are many incidences of car/no. plate cloning these days,to avoid speeding fines/congestion charges etc".--they basically sent a letter back asking me to send them a picture of the rear of my car for them to compare with their evidence!this would have allowed me to either-a)take a pcture of my no. plate on someone elses car of similar colour,or b)get a new plate made with correct spacing(mines naughty)and/or a different no.plate makers name on the bottom, and place it on my own car,taking a slightly fuzzy pic of it, so no fine detail of the car itself can be compared.in the end however i didnt have to use any of these methods,i just rang them and told them i couldnt take a photo as id sold the car!they asked for no details of sale,the woman just said 'ok well drop the case'.

[Mr E]

Interesting.....

[NugentS]

mongoose said:

cheers Sean,did you have any luck with your nip after?

After I started quoting PACE - well they are well out of time now.

Sean

[mongoose]

NugentS said:

mongoose said: cheers Sean,did you have any luck with your nip after? After I started quoting PACE - well they are well out of time now. Sean

good to hear it mate.once again,thanks for your help.your advice about the cloning letter played a big part,as you can see.cheers

[volvod5_dude]

Just goes to show that they are only interested in the easy money. It's obviously not cost effective for them to chase too hard.

[Malin]

volvod5_dude said:

Just goes to show that they are only interested in the easy money. It's obviously not cost effective for them to chase too hard.

It makes you wonder why the CPS bothered to pay a solicitor to turn up to argue that I should get fined + points for speeding up in front of an emergency ambulance. The solicitor's fees must have been a lot more than what they expected from me as a fine.

They had the photo of the ambulance (2 seconds behind me, 4mph slower) but they still fought the case.

I don't think there is a good safety case for trying to make drivers impede ambulances, so I realy can't understand what they prosecuted the case for.

It kept lots of solicitors in employment for lots of time, while keeping the MD of a manufacturing company (me) away from his work, which seems to be in line with the rest of governmnent policy.

[Tol]

This may have been covered before - if so, apologies.
The requirement with NIP's is that they be served within the 14 days (if written - at the roadside, the officer in question may say the formula verbatim, or issue a fixed penalty notice, which can count as your NIP)

The law considers them served if sent recorded or registered post. Many police forces send 1st class to avoid the extra cost. In this instance, if the NIP is ignored, and the force in question can offer no proof that it arrived regardless, the case will be abandoned as the legal requirement of an NIP being served within the 14 days cannot be proved.

Be warned though, any formal denial that an NIP has arrived when it *actually has* could potentially be an attempt to pervert the course of justice - which is likely to carry substantially more severe penalties than the original traffic offence.

Happy to consult on specific instances - no liability assumed ;-)

Tol

XJS V12 HE Auto, 1275cc Mini Cooper, Honda Fireblade

[jeffreyarcher]

Tol said:

<...>a fixed penalty notice, which can count as your NIP)

Not quite; there is no requirement for a NIP where a FPN is isued at the time. (Section 2. RTOA 1988 IIRC).

Tol said:

The law considers them served if sent recorded or registered post. Many police forces send 1st class to avoid the extra cost.

1st class post is a perfectly acceptable method of service for both a S172 notice (no method specified) and a NIP (Criminal procedure & Investigation Act 1994 IIRC).

Tol said:

In this instance, if the NIP is ignored, and the force in question can offer no proof that it arrived regardless, the case will be abandoned as the legal requirement of an NIP being served within the 14 days cannot be proved.

Wrong again; as long as they can show correct postage the burden of proof shifts to you. It is up to you to show that it was not received. Section 1 RTOA 1988 for a NIP and Section 7 Interpretation Act 1978 for a S172 notice.

[JSL]

What if they have the wrong name on envelope?

[mycerbera]

mongoose said:

i decided to ignore 1st nip,then another(duplicate)came.so i waited 28 days,before returning it unsigned and not filled in at all.i enclosed a letter saying the following:- "a look back in my diary tells me that i was in ******** on the day this alleged offence took place,which is of course no where near the site of the alleged incident.if you could send me full photographic/video evidence to help me identify the car/driver,ill do my best.i would very much like to help assist you in this matter,but as im sure your aware,there are many incidences of car/no. plate cloning these days,to avoid speeding fines/congestion charges etc".--they basically sent a letter back asking me to send them a picture of the rear of my car for them to compare with their evidence!this would have allowed me to either-a)take a pcture of my no. plate on someone elses car of similar colour,or b)get a new plate made with correct spacing(mines naughty)and/or a different no.plate makers name on the bottom, and place it on my own car,taking a slightly fuzzy pic of it, so no fine detail of the car itself can be compared.in the end however i didnt have to use any of these methods,i just rang them and told them i couldnt take a photo as id sold the car!they asked for no details of sale,the woman just said 'ok well drop the case'.

Did you actually sell the car then, or were you just telling porkies?!