Highway code/law questions
Discussion
Hi all,
Hopefully this is the right forum for this, please forgive me if it isn't.
We have our AGM for our block of flats coming up soon and I want to raise two issues regarding parking - but, I'd really like to know if the problems are against the law or highway code - to back my points up, or if I should just accept it as life and shut up!
1. A car has been parked in our private car-park for almost 4 months now, without moving. I know it is untaxed, and that the owner is a tenant. Now, I'm aware they have as much right as anyone to park there (excusing the lack of thought for others), but they aren't parked within the marked space so it is very difficult to park in the next space. They have politely been asked to move over, but won't. Is there a law/code that can get them to move it?
2. The exit to our car park is narrow and often cars park both side of the exit (on the public highway). I'm sure this is illegal - too close to a turning? Exiting the car-park in the Tiv I cannot see either way and have to go onto oncoming traffic in order to turn out. Can I quote something to back up the painting of lines to encourage cars to keep off?
That's all really. If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Hardly life threatening, but annoying all the same.
Hopefully this is the right forum for this, please forgive me if it isn't.
We have our AGM for our block of flats coming up soon and I want to raise two issues regarding parking - but, I'd really like to know if the problems are against the law or highway code - to back my points up, or if I should just accept it as life and shut up!
1. A car has been parked in our private car-park for almost 4 months now, without moving. I know it is untaxed, and that the owner is a tenant. Now, I'm aware they have as much right as anyone to park there (excusing the lack of thought for others), but they aren't parked within the marked space so it is very difficult to park in the next space. They have politely been asked to move over, but won't. Is there a law/code that can get them to move it?
2. The exit to our car park is narrow and often cars park both side of the exit (on the public highway). I'm sure this is illegal - too close to a turning? Exiting the car-park in the Tiv I cannot see either way and have to go onto oncoming traffic in order to turn out. Can I quote something to back up the painting of lines to encourage cars to keep off?
That's all really. If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Hardly life threatening, but annoying all the same.
I am in a similar situation, only I'm a Director of the management company too so did something about it !
We decided that any car parked in our communal car parks must be taxed, MOT'd and have at least 3rd party insurance. We feel we maintain (at some considerable cost) the car parks for the benfit and use of the owners for their transport, not as a storage yard for any old car that somebody wants to keep. (If an owner wants to keep an old wreck then that's fine, or a donor car etc, but it must be either in their garage or in some other storage facility)
We created a new regulation to this effect, also including that cars must not block driveways, must not park on grass, must not pose a risk etc. The leases on the flats allow new regulations to be introduced, I would guess your would too but it's worth checking.
We didn't think it appropriate to fine owners but if a car is parked contrary to the regulation then we charge £40 admin fee to write to the owner. We're not doing it to make money so we do mention it in passing to them first but if it stays there we will write and charge them for it. We also charge to find out who's car it is.
It's worked very well so far, we got rid of about 4 cars that were not dumped but slowly rotting away because the owners couldn't be bothered to dispose of them.
If you want to raise this at the AGM them you may need to write to the management company something like a month before the meeting to have it included on the agenda. (Ring them, most are willing to help, especially if it's something which could make the flats harder to sell)
It's worth checking first though to see if your lease/regulations already include suitable clauses for getting rid of 'dangerous' or undesirable vehicles.
If somebidy doesn't pay then we don't have to take legal action, we can hold the debt until they move and they can't sell the flat until they clear the debt. All part of the lease
We decided that any car parked in our communal car parks must be taxed, MOT'd and have at least 3rd party insurance. We feel we maintain (at some considerable cost) the car parks for the benfit and use of the owners for their transport, not as a storage yard for any old car that somebody wants to keep. (If an owner wants to keep an old wreck then that's fine, or a donor car etc, but it must be either in their garage or in some other storage facility)
We created a new regulation to this effect, also including that cars must not block driveways, must not park on grass, must not pose a risk etc. The leases on the flats allow new regulations to be introduced, I would guess your would too but it's worth checking.
We didn't think it appropriate to fine owners but if a car is parked contrary to the regulation then we charge £40 admin fee to write to the owner. We're not doing it to make money so we do mention it in passing to them first but if it stays there we will write and charge them for it. We also charge to find out who's car it is.
It's worked very well so far, we got rid of about 4 cars that were not dumped but slowly rotting away because the owners couldn't be bothered to dispose of them.
If you want to raise this at the AGM them you may need to write to the management company something like a month before the meeting to have it included on the agenda. (Ring them, most are willing to help, especially if it's something which could make the flats harder to sell)
It's worth checking first though to see if your lease/regulations already include suitable clauses for getting rid of 'dangerous' or undesirable vehicles.
If somebidy doesn't pay then we don't have to take legal action, we can hold the debt until they move and they can't sell the flat until they clear the debt. All part of the lease
I forgot to add that if you don't want cars to park on grass verges etc or on entrance roads then the best approach is to physically prevent them with rocks along the edge of a verge or small concrete bollards on the approach roads. Nobody takes any notice of no parking signs or double yellow lines as they think that because they live there they can do what they like.
(1).
(a)Try a report to DVLA - owner may not have declared SORN ( www.tinyurl.com/jmoq ). Although I would suspect he may well have done so or is collecting an 80 quid fine each month.
(b) Couple of able bodied chaps could carefully bounce the vehicle into a correct parking spot while someone takes the owner for a pint????? (this site is corrupting me FiF !!!!!!))
(2) Have exactly the same problem trying to get out of the lane to my abode. LA have listened to our pleas and are going to do a Van Gogh with yellow paint. In support of your application you may well quote Section 22 Road Traffic Act 1988 - person i/c a m.v. causes or permits it to remain at rest on a road in such position, as to involve a danger of injury to other persons using the road - commits an offence (a 3 pointable offence). Blocking your view and making you pull onto the main road blind fits this bill.
Further, if they park at night in BUA, the exemption on no lights does not apply within certain distance of the junction.
DVD
(a)Try a report to DVLA - owner may not have declared SORN ( www.tinyurl.com/jmoq ). Although I would suspect he may well have done so or is collecting an 80 quid fine each month.
(b) Couple of able bodied chaps could carefully bounce the vehicle into a correct parking spot while someone takes the owner for a pint????? (this site is corrupting me FiF !!!!!!))
(2) Have exactly the same problem trying to get out of the lane to my abode. LA have listened to our pleas and are going to do a Van Gogh with yellow paint. In support of your application you may well quote Section 22 Road Traffic Act 1988 - person i/c a m.v. causes or permits it to remain at rest on a road in such position, as to involve a danger of injury to other persons using the road - commits an offence (a 3 pointable offence). Blocking your view and making you pull onto the main road blind fits this bill.
Further, if they park at night in BUA, the exemption on no lights does not apply within certain distance of the junction.
DVD
[quote=Dwight VanDriver
(b) Couple of able bodied chaps could carefully bounce the vehicle into a correct parking spot while someone takes the owner for a pint????? (this site is corrupting me FiF !!!!!!))
[/quote]
Nope, nothing to do with corruption.
More like we've both joined the pragmatists!
FiF
(b) Couple of able bodied chaps could carefully bounce the vehicle into a correct parking spot while someone takes the owner for a pint????? (this site is corrupting me FiF !!!!!!))
[/quote]
Nope, nothing to do with corruption.
More like we've both joined the pragmatists!
FiF
Good to hear from you DVD!!!
One solution could be to do what a certain Community Beat Officer used to do, to get rid of scrotes cars which were being used illegally and in crime on his beat.
He would take the big public order van out on nights, 3 am ish is good. He'd then attach a tow rope to the car and drag it in to the middle of the road, so that it is clearly causing an obstruction. Drive round the block, discover this blatant obstruction to the highway, and have the vehicle recovered. In the full knowledge that scrote is not the registered keeper, and will never attend the compound to try and claim it, becuase the car is not worth the £150 + fee.
I'd just like to point out, that this Community Beat Officer was definately not me. Oh no. 
One solution could be to do what a certain Community Beat Officer used to do, to get rid of scrotes cars which were being used illegally and in crime on his beat.
He would take the big public order van out on nights, 3 am ish is good. He'd then attach a tow rope to the car and drag it in to the middle of the road, so that it is clearly causing an obstruction. Drive round the block, discover this blatant obstruction to the highway, and have the vehicle recovered. In the full knowledge that scrote is not the registered keeper, and will never attend the compound to try and claim it, becuase the car is not worth the £150 + fee.
I'd just like to point out, that this Community Beat Officer was definately not me. Oh no.
xxplod said:
Good to hear from you DVD!!!
One solution could be to do what a certain Community Beat Officer used to do, to get rid of scrotes cars which were being used illegally and in crime on his beat.
He would take the big public order van out on nights, 3 am ish is good. He'd then attach a tow rope to the car and drag it in to the middle of the road, so that it is clearly causing an obstruction. Drive round the block, discover this blatant obstruction to the highway, and have the vehicle recovered. In the full knowledge that scrote is not the registered keeper, and will never attend the compound to try and claim it, becuase the car is not worth the £150 + fee.
I'd just like to point out, that this Community Beat Officer was definately not me. Oh no.
so he was bent ?
Long one this - sorry!
Well it has been several months, the AGM has come and gone and the car is still there! It hasn't moved for almost a year now. The owner owns a flat but simply refuses to move it.
I raised the issue at the AGM and was surprised at home angry everyone else was about this car - I had lots of support. However, the management agency said they couldn't (or wouldn't) write to her asking her to move it. I got the impression they just don't know what they can or cannot do but don't want to spend any effort on this - if it is spelt out for them then I think they'll do something. I suggested we add a clause requiring that cars must be taxed and they talked around the subject avoiding having to agree to do anything. I don't think they know how to add a clause!
Can I write to the management agency demanding that under the terms of the lease they get it removed? I've got hold of a copy of the lease and it does say:
12. The right in common with all others entitled thereto from time to time to park a domestic private motor vehicle in any free parking space in the common parts.
Now, the car is clearly spanning two spaces and so is not in a space so therefore breaking the lease agreement?
There is also this clause:
Not to do or permit to be done any act or thing in or upon the demised premises or any part thereof or any part of the Property which may be or grow to be a damage nuisance or annoyance to the Lessor or the Company or any of the occupiers of other parts of the property or to the neighbourhood.
So, if I was write a letter to the management agency, stating that the owner of this car is breaking both these clauses and that it must be removed (at the owners expense) within 1 month. Can I threaten to withhold my service charge until they start acting?
Sorry for the very long post, but I really want to try and get something done about this. The management agency needs a big push and I'm at a loss how to achieve it.
Well it has been several months, the AGM has come and gone and the car is still there! It hasn't moved for almost a year now. The owner owns a flat but simply refuses to move it.
I raised the issue at the AGM and was surprised at home angry everyone else was about this car - I had lots of support. However, the management agency said they couldn't (or wouldn't) write to her asking her to move it. I got the impression they just don't know what they can or cannot do but don't want to spend any effort on this - if it is spelt out for them then I think they'll do something. I suggested we add a clause requiring that cars must be taxed and they talked around the subject avoiding having to agree to do anything. I don't think they know how to add a clause!
Can I write to the management agency demanding that under the terms of the lease they get it removed? I've got hold of a copy of the lease and it does say:
12. The right in common with all others entitled thereto from time to time to park a domestic private motor vehicle in any free parking space in the common parts.
Now, the car is clearly spanning two spaces and so is not in a space so therefore breaking the lease agreement?
There is also this clause:
Not to do or permit to be done any act or thing in or upon the demised premises or any part thereof or any part of the Property which may be or grow to be a damage nuisance or annoyance to the Lessor or the Company or any of the occupiers of other parts of the property or to the neighbourhood.
So, if I was write a letter to the management agency, stating that the owner of this car is breaking both these clauses and that it must be removed (at the owners expense) within 1 month. Can I threaten to withhold my service charge until they start acting?
Sorry for the very long post, but I really want to try and get something done about this. The management agency needs a big push and I'm at a loss how to achieve it.
How about sending a letter to the management agency along the lines of this:
Dear Mr X,
As raised at the AGM on April 5th 2004 there is a purple Toyota, registration N458 PPH that has been abandoned in our car park for over one year now. This car:
1. Is not taxed or I presume insured.
2. Is not parked within a parking space, in breach of the lease, Schedule Part 1, clause 12.
3. Has now become a health hazard.
4. Has for some time been a damage nuisance and annoyance, in breach of the lease schedule Part 3, clause 2.
At the AGM I raised the suggestion that we imposed a fine for illegal parking and that we add a clause to our lease to the affect that all cars to be parked on the property must have tax and insurance. This was met with full support by the other voting members present. To date, I have heard nothing from you in response to this.
I ask again that you instruct the owner of the car in question to park within one space, to make the car safe and to obtain tax and insurance, or to remove said car from the property within a period of one month.
I ask that you act on my request as to not do so would be failing in your responsibility as our Management Agency. To date I have had no acceptable response with regard to this issue.
Yours sincerely,
Dear Mr X,
As raised at the AGM on April 5th 2004 there is a purple Toyota, registration N458 PPH that has been abandoned in our car park for over one year now. This car:
1. Is not taxed or I presume insured.
2. Is not parked within a parking space, in breach of the lease, Schedule Part 1, clause 12.
3. Has now become a health hazard.
4. Has for some time been a damage nuisance and annoyance, in breach of the lease schedule Part 3, clause 2.
At the AGM I raised the suggestion that we imposed a fine for illegal parking and that we add a clause to our lease to the affect that all cars to be parked on the property must have tax and insurance. This was met with full support by the other voting members present. To date, I have heard nothing from you in response to this.
I ask again that you instruct the owner of the car in question to park within one space, to make the car safe and to obtain tax and insurance, or to remove said car from the property within a period of one month.
I ask that you act on my request as to not do so would be failing in your responsibility as our Management Agency. To date I have had no acceptable response with regard to this issue.
Yours sincerely,
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