Leics Plod concerned about 'persecution'
Discussion
www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?command=newPage&nodeId=132383&contentPK=9247079
WHY SPEEDING IS A POINTLESS EXERCISE
BY CIARAN FAGAN ciaranfagan@leicestermercury.co.uk
10:30 - 17 March 2004
Police today pledged to stop "persecuting" ordinary motorists and focus on a hard core of persistent speeders.
They announced today that motorists clocked speeding in the city and county will be able to keep their licences clean on condition they attend a speed awareness class.
At least 50,000 people are caught speeding in Leicestershire every year.
Most receive fines and penalty points on their licences.
Under a review revealed by police today, motorists could be offered the chance to pay £60 to attend the course - the equivalent of a speeding fine - but will not be penalised with points on their licences.
It would be left to the discretion of police officers as to who would be offered courses and who would be given penalty points.
Decisions would hinge on the seriousness of the offence, with factors like speed and weather conditions taken into account.
The first courses are expected to begin later this year.
Police will also introduce more electronic roadside signs, which read a vehicle's speed and warn drivers to slow down.
They also intend to invest heavily in the Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system, which tracks down criminals by reading their car number plates and cross- referencing the details with DVLA records and the national police computer.
In the past eight months, ANPR has caught almost 500 crooks - from armed drug dealers to car thieves and road tax dodgers.
Leicestershire's assistant chief constable, Mike Goodwin, said: "People have told us we have done great work reducing road deaths and injuries but to stop over-persecuting ordinary motorists.
"We have seen a significant reduction in deaths and serious injuries on our roads and we want that to continue. By putting more resources into the education side of it and the speed-activated warning signs we feel we can achieve that."
Toby Walker, of the Leicestershire and Rutland Safety Camera Partnership, said: "Being sent on the course is not a let-off, there's some inconvenience there. I think most people will be keen on this idea."
The Rev David Jennings, who was clocked twice in the space of a week on Tigers Way in the city, said: "I'd be prepared to go on a course if it meant I didn't get points on my licence.
"I had to pay £120 in fines and my insurance company tried to raise my premium by 25 per cent."
Sally Weston, 43, from Narborough, said: "I've never been caught speeding but it's only a matter of time because I'm on the road so much for my job. Motorists have been feeling persecuted recently and I'll bet they'll welcome this."
Police say that between 1998 and 2000 an average of 518 people died on the roads - last year this fell by almost 20 per cent to 420.
However, at the 150 sites covered by speed cameras, the fall was even greater, from an average of 125 a year between 1998 and 2000 to 55 last year - a drop of 56 per cent.
WHY SPEEDING IS A POINTLESS EXERCISE
BY CIARAN FAGAN ciaranfagan@leicestermercury.co.uk
10:30 - 17 March 2004
Police today pledged to stop "persecuting" ordinary motorists and focus on a hard core of persistent speeders.
They announced today that motorists clocked speeding in the city and county will be able to keep their licences clean on condition they attend a speed awareness class.
At least 50,000 people are caught speeding in Leicestershire every year.
Most receive fines and penalty points on their licences.
Under a review revealed by police today, motorists could be offered the chance to pay £60 to attend the course - the equivalent of a speeding fine - but will not be penalised with points on their licences.
It would be left to the discretion of police officers as to who would be offered courses and who would be given penalty points.
Decisions would hinge on the seriousness of the offence, with factors like speed and weather conditions taken into account.
The first courses are expected to begin later this year.
Police will also introduce more electronic roadside signs, which read a vehicle's speed and warn drivers to slow down.
They also intend to invest heavily in the Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system, which tracks down criminals by reading their car number plates and cross- referencing the details with DVLA records and the national police computer.
In the past eight months, ANPR has caught almost 500 crooks - from armed drug dealers to car thieves and road tax dodgers.
Leicestershire's assistant chief constable, Mike Goodwin, said: "People have told us we have done great work reducing road deaths and injuries but to stop over-persecuting ordinary motorists.
"We have seen a significant reduction in deaths and serious injuries on our roads and we want that to continue. By putting more resources into the education side of it and the speed-activated warning signs we feel we can achieve that."
Toby Walker, of the Leicestershire and Rutland Safety Camera Partnership, said: "Being sent on the course is not a let-off, there's some inconvenience there. I think most people will be keen on this idea."
The Rev David Jennings, who was clocked twice in the space of a week on Tigers Way in the city, said: "I'd be prepared to go on a course if it meant I didn't get points on my licence.
"I had to pay £120 in fines and my insurance company tried to raise my premium by 25 per cent."
Sally Weston, 43, from Narborough, said: "I've never been caught speeding but it's only a matter of time because I'm on the road so much for my job. Motorists have been feeling persecuted recently and I'll bet they'll welcome this."
Police say that between 1998 and 2000 an average of 518 people died on the roads - last year this fell by almost 20 per cent to 420.
However, at the 150 sites covered by speed cameras, the fall was even greater, from an average of 125 a year between 1998 and 2000 to 55 last year - a drop of 56 per cent.
Seems like good news, although I'm a bit suspicious that they appear to be comparing a three year average to a single year to show a decrease. Surely from a statistical point of view that's a bit of a non starter? Be interesting to see the yearly figures in isolation. Cynical? Me? Never.....
Being tied to a chair with Des O'Connor records playing for 2 weeks non-stop and electrodes clamped on sensitive areas will never convince me that a driver travelling at 36 in a 30 mph zone with a clear road ahead and putting no-one in danger needs to go for further speed awareness training. It's ludicrous.
N Wales police are suggesting that anyone exceeding the limit by even a tiny amount should receive a letter warning them about their driving behaviour.
But go to any town in N. Wales late on a Friday or Saturday night and see unfettered mayhem.
N Wales police are suggesting that anyone exceeding the limit by even a tiny amount should receive a letter warning them about their driving behaviour.
But go to any town in N. Wales late on a Friday or Saturday night and see unfettered mayhem.
cazzo said:
Police today pledged to stop "persecuting" ordinary motorists and focus on a hard core of persistent speeders.
Hmm, I reckon the majority of the driving population are persistant speeders. I'm pretty sure I have broken the speed limit to some degree almost every time I drive.
Mr2Mike said:
Police today pledged to stop "persecuting" ordinary motorists and focus on a hard core of persistent speeders.
Hmm, I reckon the majority of the driving population are persistant speeders. I'm pretty sure I have broken the speed limit to some degree almost every time I drive.
Yes I think that is probably right, certainly it applies to me. I have previously declared my attitude to the speed factor, namely that I try to keep reasonably within the limits in built up areas, but on the open road I have had a long term disregard for the NSL.
Early yesterday evening on my way home from my first car delivery job (Wetherby to Dorchester, Dorset) I rather fear my 46 year record of freedom from speeding prosecutions may have come to an end.
I was driving through a village near Birdlip in Gloucestershire when I received two quick flashes from a box further along the road and on the opposite side. Now a quick flash that involves a curvy cutie is welcome any time, but two flashes just a fraction of a second apart is bad news.
Generally speaking a good deal of my travelling is on roads that have no speed cameras, and therefore unlike most of you I am not accustomed to having to look out for the wretched things.
Yesterday I was concentrating my attention on two pedestrians crossing the road as I approached, and after they were safely out of the way I opened up a little, and presumably went that bit too much over the 40 limit. It is a bit galling to find that whereas there was not a moment of anxiety during the 713 miles I covered yesterday, I let myself get caught while dealing safely with an actual hazard.
However, much as we may object to the current regime we all know the rules, so I guess this was bound to happen at some time. Still, I have had a good run (in terms of speed limit transgressions it was probably about 12,500 not out) so all I can do now is hope there was no film in the Gatso.
Best wishes all,
Dave (kicking self!)
Reading the above text just confirms to me that this is just a pure bullshitting exercise to get the heat/pressure of the poor BiB, who has become the kicking boy because of shortsighted and PC governmental speed persecution and revenue raising! Many BiBs confirm this, incuding a fewof the most senior ones (excluding Brownshirtstormtrooper of course)
If a BiB gets a verbal pasting for being over-zealous IMHO he deserves it.... but these socialist control freaks are putting the poor BiB between a rock and a hard place more and more, when they should be making it easier for them to go out and catch the real criminals, instead of the easy money option that the govenment obviously wants......
[/rantmodeoff]
If a BiB gets a verbal pasting for being over-zealous IMHO he deserves it.... but these socialist control freaks are putting the poor BiB between a rock and a hard place more and more, when they should be making it easier for them to go out and catch the real criminals, instead of the easy money option that the govenment obviously wants......
[/rantmodeoff]
How can they say that the "seriousness" of an offence is dependent on road and weather conditions and still spout the line that speed kills?
It either does (hence speed cameras) or it doesn't (therefore no cameras). What they want is to have both.
It's a reaction born of panic that so many people are turning against them.
Also interesting is that they have 150 camera sites yet 125 deaths/year over the 3 years at those sites. Therefore less than one per year. Does this indicate anything about the way they justify the camera sites?
It either does (hence speed cameras) or it doesn't (therefore no cameras). What they want is to have both.
It's a reaction born of panic that so many people are turning against them.
Also interesting is that they have 150 camera sites yet 125 deaths/year over the 3 years at those sites. Therefore less than one per year. Does this indicate anything about the way they justify the camera sites?
Leics figures are not as bad as many but hardly justify the PR spin
all from 1989, not 2002, nothin yet for 2003
Fatal
102/104/89/98/80/78/78/68/65/87/86/65/64/79/56
comment form previous low of 65 in 97 to 56 now is not good compared to previous achievements, dreadful rises in between.
SI
788/687/669/616/564/533/519/514/475/424/464/424/449/339
Long term fall since mid 1960s now all but petered out
SL
4109/4253/3926/3926/4035/4144/4138/4336/4509/4667/4508/4748/4552/4542
Not what you would call impressive, is it?
Can anyone try to get these numbers into the local press and or ask the SCP for an explanation?
Graphs available off list for most areas plus GB
Idris
all from 1989, not 2002, nothin yet for 2003
Fatal
102/104/89/98/80/78/78/68/65/87/86/65/64/79/56
comment form previous low of 65 in 97 to 56 now is not good compared to previous achievements, dreadful rises in between.
SI
788/687/669/616/564/533/519/514/475/424/464/424/449/339
Long term fall since mid 1960s now all but petered out
SL
4109/4253/3926/3926/4035/4144/4138/4336/4509/4667/4508/4748/4552/4542
Not what you would call impressive, is it?
Can anyone try to get these numbers into the local press and or ask the SCP for an explanation?
Graphs available off list for most areas plus GB
Idris
[quote=cazzo10:30 - 17 March 2004
Police today pledged to stop "persecuting" ordinary motorists and focus on a hard core of persistent speeders. [/quote]
B U L L ! ! ! !
They're only going to fine you and leave the points out!?!?!?
That's the exact OPPOSITE of focusing on persistent speeders! It means you can speed as often as you like, where you like, and you'll NEVER get baned.
(OK, I know that's a gross simplification, but thin-end-of-the-wedge an all)
Police today pledged to stop "persecuting" ordinary motorists and focus on a hard core of persistent speeders. [/quote]
B U L L ! ! ! !
They're only going to fine you and leave the points out!?!?!?
That's the exact OPPOSITE of focusing on persistent speeders! It means you can speed as often as you like, where you like, and you'll NEVER get baned.
(OK, I know that's a gross simplification, but thin-end-of-the-wedge an all)
Same veritable farce as Lancashire has already - I fear. 1mph oveer and ...fssst...the speed course at whopping fee of £80-90 or so! Proceeds pay for more scams of course. 
And the accidents rates carry on increasing! Obviously setting scams in fleecespots and targetting wrong (only just over) drivers to attend the course!
Too many scams and not enough proper cops!
Now Lancs is going for caution and inviting "faster" drivers to the course if latest reports are to be believed!
Not got real issue with retraining course - but take issue over way they are currently setting about it! Lip service to road safety. They know they have gone too far with these scams - and this is their way of admitting it without losing face!
No flashing Smileys, no proper blackspot signs, scams in fleecespots and talivan's so-called audits has more to do with possible income and course candidates than actual policing for road safety and control!
JMGS4 made point that it is attempt to take pressure off poor BiBs - who seem to cop for some undeserved flak off all of us!
Not seen this paper - but hear "Standard" carried story of "dissent in the ranks"
According to what I hear, ran-and-file cops have launched scathing attack on scameras in "Police" magazine saying that trapfpols are down from 15% (1980s) to just 5% per day! And that cops are becoming demotivated as the scams are not catching bad divers
Of course - there is no correlation between increase in RTAs and decrease in cops!
That's just a blip ain't it!
And the accidents rates carry on increasing! Obviously setting scams in fleecespots and targetting wrong (only just over) drivers to attend the course!
Too many scams and not enough proper cops!
Now Lancs is going for caution and inviting "faster" drivers to the course if latest reports are to be believed!
Not got real issue with retraining course - but take issue over way they are currently setting about it! Lip service to road safety. They know they have gone too far with these scams - and this is their way of admitting it without losing face!
No flashing Smileys, no proper blackspot signs, scams in fleecespots and talivan's so-called audits has more to do with possible income and course candidates than actual policing for road safety and control!
JMGS4 made point that it is attempt to take pressure off poor BiBs - who seem to cop for some undeserved flak off all of us!
Not seen this paper - but hear "Standard" carried story of "dissent in the ranks"
According to what I hear, ran-and-file cops have launched scathing attack on scameras in "Police" magazine saying that trapfpols are down from 15% (1980s) to just 5% per day! And that cops are becoming demotivated as the scams are not catching bad divers
Of course - there is no correlation between increase in RTAs and decrease in cops!
That's just a blip ain't it!
There is just no pleasing some folk. The thread caught my interest, and to be honest I have not read all the replies fully but the general theme is just general whinging. Why does everyone quote the 'open road, what harm is there' senario, I've been to loads of single vehicle bumps on such roads quite a few of which were serious/fatal and usually someone other than the driver is the one injured. Be realistic stop just trying to justify speeding because you happen to own a quick car and like to drive it fast. The bottom line as I see it is simple be realistic and responsible with your speed, if you get stopped, listen to the advice be polite, most cops will respond in the same manner and providing you have not been driving like a complete T***. Although I do agree that the use of speed cameras has gone over the top. There is no substitue for having a visible presence on the roads in the form of the good old Traffic Cop, it also keeps me in a job (bit of a conflict of interests I suppose)
john robson said:
The bottom line as I see it is simple be realistic and responsible with your speed, if you get stopped, listen to the advice be polite, most cops will respond in the same manner and providing you have not been driving like a complete T***. Although I do agree that the use of speed cameras has gone over the top. There is no substitue for having a visible presence on the roads in the form of the good old Traffic Cop, it also keeps me in a job (bit of a conflict of interests I suppose)
I don't think people here are trying to justify speeding at all, they're just fed up with robo-enforcement which is having very little impact. A camera can't give you a dressing down and a stern chat, it just lightens your wallet, enlarges Government coffers and breeds resentment, which in most cases gets misdirected at the police. Who do you think the average driver respects more - camera partnerships and road safety (read: car hating) "experts" or pukka traffic police? Who is more clued up when it comes to the trials and tribulations of day to day motoring?
john robson said:
There is just no pleasing some folk. The thread caught my interest, and to be honest I have not read all the replies fully but the general theme is just general whinging. Why does everyone quote the 'open road, what harm is there' senario, I've been to loads of single vehicle bumps on such roads quite a few of which were serious/fatal and usually someone other than the driver is the one injured. Be realistic stop just trying to justify speeding because you happen to own a quick car and like to drive it fast. The bottom line as I see it is simple be realistic and responsible with your speed, if you get stopped, listen to the advice be polite, most cops will respond in the same manner and providing you have not been driving like a complete T***. Although I do agree that the use of speed cameras has gone over the top. There is no substitue for having a visible presence on the roads in the form of the good old Traffic Cop, it also keeps me in a job (bit of a conflict of interests I suppose)
Justify my speeding? Now theres an idea! Why do i need to justify it? Im not doing anything to others when i speed. Im simply travelling faster or slower than they are.
I do have a fast car that i like to drive fast. I shall continue to do so. No justification needed.
As long as what i do dosent affect anyone else, then there is no justification necessary.
>> Edited by deltaf on Thursday 18th March 23:48
Speed cameras are useful in some areas but I do agree with hornet here the public are certainly getting brassed off with robot enforcement. I for one think we should start to tackle un-insured drivers, I for one would get a great deal of satisfaction from taking the cars off them and crushing it, lets face it if DVLA are doing it for non taxed cars it makes a joke of the fact that all we do at this stage is give them a ticket to produce doc we know they dont have and let them go on their way. I think that would get a bit more public support, reduce the number of old bangers on the road and take a good number of unlicenced, incompetant drivers out of the equasion.
john robson said:
There is just no pleasing some folk. The thread caught my interest, and to be honest I have not read all the replies fully but the general theme is just general whinging. Why does everyone quote the 'open road, what harm is there' senario, I've been to loads of single vehicle bumps on such roads quite a few of which were serious/fatal and usually someone other than the driver is the one injured. Be realistic stop just trying to justify speeding because you happen to own a quick car and like to drive it fast. The bottom line as I see it is simple be realistic and responsible with your speed, if you get stopped, listen to the advice be polite, most cops will respond in the same manner and providing you have not been driving like a complete T***. Although I do agree that the use of speed cameras has gone over the top. There is no substitue for having a visible presence on the roads in the form of the good old Traffic Cop, it also keeps me in a job (bit of a conflict of interests I suppose)
Ach!
"No substitute for a Traffic Cop" indeed!
"It also keeps me in a job (bit of a conflict of interests)"
John Liebchen!
That is exactly why YOU should START WHINGING about scams!
They will put you OUT of a job!
If you read most of the comments on here properly - you will find that very, very, very few condone OTT speeding and reckless behaviour and that most of us are stating the
obvious common sense! Which is...
MORE trafpols! LESS hidden cameras (cos they don't
work!) MORE driver training - periodic training -but not 
a RE- TEST!
Most simply want to get from A to B safely without having to worry about potential ban if they trig 4 scams at just 1-2 mph over the speed limit en route!
Yes< I own a nice fast car! I also own some lovely old crocks. I drive all of them according to road conditions at all times!
Suggest you make yourself a brew, and have a good read of this forum. Then have a good deep think about exactly how useful a scamera is compared to your own job! Then you may understand why we are "whinging" about scameras and talivans and those money grabbing scam sh!ts!
yes if they'd used the figures in this thread it wouldn't look so convincing lol
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=90644&f=10&h=0
i still haven't had a reply from the SCP, maybe their too busy setting up the courses
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=90644&f=10&h=0
i still haven't had a reply from the SCP, maybe their too busy setting up the courses
john robson said:
Speed cameras are useful in some areas but I do agree with hornet here the public are certainly getting brassed off with robot enforcement. I for one think we should start to tackle un-insured drivers, I for one would get a great deal of satisfaction from taking the cars off them and crushing it, < CLIP >
Yea - crush 'em, with the toerags still inside!
>> Edited by tvr_nut on Tuesday 20th April 09:28
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