refusing payment at a petrol station?

[s2ooz]

Several bikers I know have gone in a petrol station to pay and wont get "served" until they remove their helmets.

Am I right in thinking if someone REFUSES payment for services/goods you have the right to leave with the goods because you have made reasonable effort to pay?

There is no law says you have to remove your helmet/uncover your burka/veil etc.. is there?

[Elskeggso]

Isn't it just their payment policy not to accept payment until the helmet has been removed? Therefore, if they leave without paying because they don't want to remove the helmet then it's still classed as theft...

[streaky]

s2ooz said:

There is no law says you have to remove your helmet/uncover your burka/veil etc.. is there?

Indeed not, but asking someone to remove their burqa (actually hijab - the burqa is the part that does not cover the head) or niqab/purdah (face veil) will land you in trouble.

However, if the garage has served you whilst you wore your helmet they have entered into a contract. Asking you to remove your helmet only upon payment might be considered a breach of the implied terms of that contract (i.e. that you were served goods (e.g. petrol) whilst wearing it) [IANAL]. In the same way, if you shopped at a supermarket wearing a helmet, they should not ask to to remove it only at the checkout. There's no facial identification being done to validate payment.

Best to say your religious beliefs prevent you removing your helmet ... and let them challenge that!

Regardless, you have to pay for the goods/services you received.

Streaky

[Boosted LS1]

Elskeggso said:

Isn't it just their payment policy not to accept payment until the helmet has been removed? Therefore, if they leave without paying because they don't want to remove the helmet then it's still classed as theft...

How so? There was a clear intention to pay. Acceptance of the payment was declined.

[otolith]

Or perhaps just not be a dick about it?

[s2ooz]

but if you wave cash in someones face ant they down right refuse to take it - should you just stay there all day??

NB thanks for the answer streaky.

[s2ooz]

otolith said:

Or perhaps just not be a dick about it?

Im assuming you havent tried removing a helmet on a cold day, so let me give you a comparison.

£10 on desk, walk out - or..

remove gloves
undo strap
remove helmet
remove winter face mask
remove earplugs

£10 on desk

replace earplugs
undo jacket
replace winter mask
tuck mask into collar
do up jacket
replace helmet
do up strap
remove helmet and resit mask as you feel cold air getting up the back
put on helmet
do up stap
put on gloves

.. walk out.

[vonhosen]

streaky said:

s2ooz said:

There is no law says you have to remove your helmet/uncover your burka/veil etc.. is there?

Indeed not, but asking someone to remove their burqa (actually hijab - the burqa is the part that does not cover the head) or niqab/purdah (face veil) will land you in trouble.

However, if the garage has served you whilst you wore your helmet they have entered into a contract. Asking you to remove your helmet only upon payment might be considered a breach of the implied terms of that contract (i.e. that you were served goods (e.g. petrol) whilst wearing it) [IANAL]. In the same way, if you shopped at a supermarket wearing a helmet, they should not ask to to remove it only at the checkout. There's no facial identification being done to validate payment.

Best to say your religious beliefs prevent you removing your helmet ... and let them challenge that!

Regardless, you have to pay for the goods/services you received.

Streaky

It's usually clearly displayed at the pumps that helmets must be removed.

[Mill Wheel]

Strangely according to the crime statistics, bilking by bikers is not a problem - but that might just be to poor spelling in the statistics office!

If it ever happened to me, I would simply fill up elsewhere in future.

Morrisons supermarkets operate this policy.
Their customer services chappy had this to say:

Morrisons spokesperson said:

I am sorry to learn that you are disappointed with our request for helmets to be removed before refuelling at our petrol filling station. Please accept my apologies if any offence was caused.

At Morrison’s we respectfully ask that motorcyclists remove their helmets prior to commencing refuelling and entering the stores petrol filling station. Our reasons for this are security and consideration to our staff and other customers, it is also necessary to aid our staff with age restricted sales. Additionally with a helmet on petrol vapours can find there way inside the helmet and become trapped, these vapours can cause nausea and potentially cause a person to lose consciousness.

Part of the Stanchion Signage displayed at every Fill Point states ‘’Please can all customers remove motorcycle helmets before commencing re-fuelling’’. This is our standard sign and is displayed on all our Filling Stations.

Yours sincerely

--
S. Patel
Customer Services Department
Wm Morrison Supermarkets PLC

So there you are - it is to save you from falling unconscious at the pumps, and to stop children buying a bottle of booze or fags whilst out riding their motorcycles!

Some Morrisons even refuse to authorise filling up at "Pay at Pump" terminals.

Speak up - silence is simply consenting to these policies!

[s2ooz]

if its before commencing refuelling then I it doesnt fall into streakys contract arguement, however, the reasons for it are tosh. And they seem more intent in stopping grown men buy petrol than stopping people use phones by pumps - which is also on those signs..

[odyssey2200]

s2ooz said:

otolith said:

Or perhaps just not be a dick about it?

Im assuming you havent tried removing a helmet on a cold day, so let me give you a comparison.

£10 on desk, walk out - or..

remove gloves
undo strap
remove helmet
remove winter face mask
remove earplugs

£10 on desk

replace earplugs
undo jacket
replace winter mask
tuck mask into collar
do up jacket
replace helmet
do up strap
remove helmet and resit mask as you feel cold air getting up the back
put on helmet
do up stap
put on gloves

.. walk out.

all with fingers that are numb with cold!

Edited by odyssey2200 on Tuesday 31st August 17:28

[itsnotarace]

Mill Wheel said:

Strangely according to the crime statistics, bilking by bikers is not a problem

Bilking is not the problem, armed robbery is the problem

Do you lot also refuse to remove your helmets when going into a bank?

[odyssey2200]

itsnotarace said:

Mill Wheel said:

Strangely according to the crime statistics, bilking by bikers is not a problem

Bilking is not the problem, armed robbery is the problem

Do you lot also refuse to remove your helmets when going into a bank?

A bank is not a "drive in" business, is it?

[s2ooz]

itsnotarace said:

Mill Wheel said:

Strangely according to the crime statistics, bilking by bikers is not a problem

Bilking is not the problem, armed robbery is the problem

Do you lot also refuse to remove your helmets when going into a bank?

if just going in for the cash point, then probably. But banks dont cctv and validate my number plate when I pull onto their forecourt, so its not quiet the same.

Does anyone do armed robbery anymore?????

[otolith]

s2ooz said:

otolith said:

Or perhaps just not be a dick about it?

Im assuming you havent tried removing a helmet on a cold day, so let me give you a comparison.

£10 on desk, walk out - or..

Goes with the territory. Take the car if it bothers you.

[odyssey2200]

otolith said:

s2ooz said:

otolith said:

Or perhaps just not be a dick about it?

Im assuming you havent tried removing a helmet on a cold day, so let me give you a comparison.

£10 on desk, walk out - or..

Goes with the territory. Take the car if it bothers you.

That is great if you want a pint of milk but won't help if you bike needs petrol

[itsnotarace]

s2ooz said:

But banks dont cctv and validate my number plate when I pull onto their forecourt, so its not quiet the same.

Are you under the impression that petrol station CCTV is linked up to ANPR (hint - it's not), or that they even have rear facing CCTV cameras? (hint - most don't) Please excuse me if you have a front number plate on your bike obviously

s2ooz said:

Does anyone do armed robbery anymore?????

Sadly yes

[blueg33]

odyssey2200 said:

s2ooz said:

otolith said:

Or perhaps just not be a dick about it?

Im assuming you havent tried removing a helmet on a cold day, so let me give you a comparison.

£10 on desk, walk out - or..

remove gloves
undo strap
remove helmet
remove winter face mask
remove earplugs

£10 on desk

replace earplugs
undo jacket
replace winter mask
tuck mask into collar
do up jacket
replace helmet
do up strap
remove helmet and resit mask as you feel cold air getting up the back
put on helmet
do up stap
put on gloves

.. walk out.

all with fingers that are numb with cold!

Edited by odyssey2200 on Tuesday 31st August 17:28

One of the reasons why I don't ride bikes - even my least comfortable car thingy has rudimentary heating

[mrmr96]

Pay at Pump FTW.

[AddieB]

Go to a Pay at the Pump filling station.

Job done.