Do I have to stop?

[philthy]

Here's a question for the bib contributors here. I drive artics for the royal mail, usually to park royal (which I believe is tonyrec's patch). The first thing I was told when I started with them is NEVER open the door or window if stopped by anyone ever. We actually have a statement on the back of the daily logbook that reads something like "the driver has been instructed not to leave this vehicle under any circumstances, if you are unable to communicate with him through a closed window he will follow you to the nearest royal mail depot, or police station, alternatively phone XXXXX XXXXXXX".

I imagine if I sat at the side of the north circular, grinning through the side window at plod, he would blow a gasket, and shoot out my tyres.

I'm interested to know how the bib would react to me doing this. Years ago some postie was stopped, took the p*ss and was threatened with all sorts of prosecutions. It took the intervention of the union solicitors to smooth things over.

Philthy

[julianhj]

I believe any member of the public can ask to drive to the nearest police station if they doubt the authenticity of ID presented.

[Dwight VanDriver]

Many, many years ago as a BiB with white top, I recall being advised that GPO would adopt this proceedure if we stopped them and that we could expect to escort them to nearest Police Station or GPO Office. Presumably, because of the security factor, the same will apply nowadays.

DVD

[gone]

If you showed them the instruction in the log book through the window, if they were real Police Officers they would either follow you or instruct you to follow them to the nearest one. I would be a little wary in case they were bogus if you were to follow them to a station in case they are leading you into an ambush. It would be better for you to tell them to follow you to the nearest Police Station if you knew where it was.

Failing to stop for Police in uniform is now an arrestable offence. This means you can be arrested at anytime after the offence, even years if necessary.

[nel]

Suppose it depends on the policeman in question - I was lucky!

Back in '86 I was out in a Mini Marcos that I'd just rebuilt and run in. Real little racing car in bright red, with 1275 S engine, 649 cam, twin SUs, straight through exhaust, straight cut box - great fun !

Coming out of Esher, between Sandown and the Scilly Isles roundabout heading for Kingston in 40 limit, 3 banal cars in front of me driving at 40, nothing coming, floored it and zapped 'em all in a trice, then decelerated to a reasonable speed around 55.
Lead car, a blue astra as I recall, immediately speeded up and jumped on my tail flashing his lights. Innocently assuming that it was jerk peeved at being overtaken, I took the roundabout in a somewhat cavalier fashion and left him for dead, heading up the straight towards Kingston.

He determinedly chased me flashing his lights, so I twigged that maybe he wasn't joe public and slowly pulled over. The Astra pulled up behind me and a big bloke in jeans and sweatshirt got out. I thought , I'm in for a pummelling and took off again. He jumped back in his car and caught up with me again flashing his lights - continued like this with me wondering what to do until I came round a curve by the river and saw 2 pandas coming towards me on my side of the road with flashing blues and got the message.

They shot off as soon as I stopped the car and got out apologising. The plain-clothes (I suppose) gave me a right telling off and then started asking questions about the car . Told me few stories about young men dead on marble slabs and sent me on my way with a warning. A real gent and worthy of respect.
I'm sure that there are still plenty of policemen out there with this sort of suitably discriminating attitude - he could see that I wasn't yoofy - just an enthusiast.

If he's out there, then

Nel

[bluepolarbear]

nel said:

They shot off as soon as I stopped the car and got out apologising. The plain-clothes (I suppose) gave me a right telling off and then started asking questions about the car .

You have only have to stop for a uniform officer, plain clothes has no authority to stop you - including one waving a badge at you. RTA S163

The requirement is to stop and the officer can ask for name, address, licence. No requirement to leave the vehicle or enter any other conversation such as "where you are going" or "who do you think you are - Sterling Moss?"

[gone]

bluepolarbear said:

nel said: They shot off as soon as I stopped the car and got out apologising. The plain-clothes (I suppose) gave me a right telling off and then started asking questions about the car . You have only have to stop for a uniform officer, plain clothes has no authority to stop you - including one waving a badge at you. RTA S163 The requirement is to stop and the officer can ask for name, address, licence. No requirement to leave the vehicle or enter any other conversation such as "where you are going" or "who do you think you are - Sterling Moss?"

The last bit is quite wrong actually.

An officer investigating any offence can ask any questions he likes especially to ascertain certain details. As soon as he has evidence of an offence he must caution

You do not have to answer any of his questions but if you do not reply with a suitably proper answer to questions of identity, then you are likely to suffer arrest under Section 25 PACE 1984. And that is for any offence from dropping litter to failing to comply with directions from an officer in uniform!

During caution you will be told you do not have to say anything. Questioning, depending on what it is designed to find out, can be regarded as an interview which itself is covered and governed by PACE 1984.

I hope that helps. (so he can ask where you are going and where you have come from and this does not constitute an interview [well most of the time]).

[cortinaman]

i know that under the level 4 security training that EVERY courier is meant to take that if you are carrying 'known cargo' into an airport (cargo that has been cleared through x-ray/hand search) and a cop goes to stop you then your instructed to tell him to take you to the nearest secure police yard before you are allowed to even open the window,let alone unlock a door.

carrying the queens mail i would have thought would come under the same sort of proceedure.....especially as there would be the higher risk of being robbed and also theres being done for 'thieft of the queens mail' if anything goes missing,that can get you upto 25 yrs inside,according to p.o.investigations.

>> Edited by cortinaman on Saturday 10th April 03:17

[streaky]

bluepolarbear said:

[ ... ] The requirement is to stop and the officer can ask for name, address, licence. No requirement to leave the vehicle or enter any other conversation such as "where you are going" or "who do you think you are - Sterling Moss?"

See discussion and BiBs' comments here. - Streaky

[bluepolarbear]

gone said:

The last bit is quite wrong actually.

Sorry should have been clearer. You're right to expand it further by saying that if an officer is not satisified that you are who you say you are then he can arrest you in order to establish who you are.

They can of course ask any question they like however, you only legally have to give name and address and in some cases your DOB (and provide your licence), every other question can be met with silence.

However, as the thread streaky links to, you are not going to win many favours by delibrately not answering resonable questions asked in a resonable manner.

However, if the questions are not being asked in a resonable manner....

in relation to the orginal question he would not be breaking the law be following those instructions. He's legal duty is to stop (only for uniform officer) and provide name, address, licence and sometimes DOB from inside he's locked cab if he chooses.


>> Edited by bluepolarbear on Saturday 10th April 20:13

[OUTLAWisBACK]

bluepolarbear said:

gone said: The last bit is quite wrong actually. Sorry should have been clearer. You're right to expand it further by saying that if an officer is not satisified that you are who you say you are then he can arrest you in order to establish who you are. They can of course ask any question they like however, you only legally have to give name and address and in some cases your DOB (and provide your licence), every other question can be met with silence. However, as the thread streaky links to, you are not going to win many favours by delibrately not answering resonable questions asked in a resonable manner. However, if the questions are not being asked in a resonable manner.... in relation to the orginal question he would not be breaking the law be following those instructions. He's legal duty is to stop (only for uniform officer) and provide name, address, licence and sometimes DOB from inside he's locked cab if he chooses. >> Edited by bluepolarbear on Saturday 10th April 20:13

only have to provide the DOB if there driving

if not no need to tell the BiBs IT

[gone]

OUTLAWisBACK said:

only have to provide the DOB if there driving if not no need to tell the BiBs IT

Not quite true all the time mate! just be careful what you tell them

[OUTLAWisBACK]

Then please do elaberat some more.

[gone]

OUTLAWisBACK said:

Then please do elaberat some more.

It depends why you are stopped and for what reason. Sometimes different offences require dates of birth from the alleged offender so that the offence can be established. This is not in relation to the fact the driver has commited an RTA offence (although mostly they will have too). Passengers can commit offences especially if they are supervising learner drivers or the driver is suspected to be a learner. Then the taking of a date of birth is necessary to establish whether offences have been comitted by either or both.

Sometimes a vehicle can have more than one driver!!

[OUTLAWisBACK]

are but that just spliting hairs

I more or less what i said

have to give a DOB relates to driving and licening

not to criminal matters