Observer today
Discussion
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1189805,00.html
M-way limit may rise to 80mph to smooth traffic flow
Kamal Ahmed, political editor
Sunday April 11, 2004
The Observer
Britain's motorway speed limit of 70mph will be replaced with an 80mph 'variable' limit under plans being considered by the Department for Transport.
Government officials have told The Observer the blanket 70mph limit does little to educate drivers that safe driving does not only depend on speed but on road conditions.
The Transport Department is looking at whether variable limits, already in place along parts of the M25 around London and M42 in the Midlands, could be used to introduce an 80mph limit if con ditions are dry and the motorway is relatively traffic-free.
'You could have a 50mph limit enforced if the weather is bad or the road is crowded and this would be balanced by an 80mph limit where conditions are good,' said a Whitehall source. 'The technology needed to do this will be available in five years.'
Ministers have been impressed by the use of variable speed limits to control traffic flow along busy sections of motorway. By slowing traffic down when driving conditions are poor there are fewer accidents and less chance of traffic jams building up. A higher limit in good conditions would then stop 'crimi nalising' drivers who are still driving at safe speeds.
The Government is also responding to a Conservative pledge to raise the motorway speed limit to 80mph, which is believed to be popular with the public.
Edmund King, executive director of the RAC Foundation, said he backed an 80mph limit as long as it is enforced and is 'not seen as a limit that means 90mph'.
The 70mph limit was introduced in 1967 when car design and road handling were much more primitive. Any change is likely to be attacked by environmentalists because fuel consumption rises rapidly between 70 and 80mph.
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So that's (part?) of the Century FM story then.
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
M-way limit may rise to 80mph to smooth traffic flow
Kamal Ahmed, political editor
Sunday April 11, 2004
The Observer
Britain's motorway speed limit of 70mph will be replaced with an 80mph 'variable' limit under plans being considered by the Department for Transport.
Government officials have told The Observer the blanket 70mph limit does little to educate drivers that safe driving does not only depend on speed but on road conditions.
The Transport Department is looking at whether variable limits, already in place along parts of the M25 around London and M42 in the Midlands, could be used to introduce an 80mph limit if con ditions are dry and the motorway is relatively traffic-free.
'You could have a 50mph limit enforced if the weather is bad or the road is crowded and this would be balanced by an 80mph limit where conditions are good,' said a Whitehall source. 'The technology needed to do this will be available in five years.'
Ministers have been impressed by the use of variable speed limits to control traffic flow along busy sections of motorway. By slowing traffic down when driving conditions are poor there are fewer accidents and less chance of traffic jams building up. A higher limit in good conditions would then stop 'crimi nalising' drivers who are still driving at safe speeds.
The Government is also responding to a Conservative pledge to raise the motorway speed limit to 80mph, which is believed to be popular with the public.
Edmund King, executive director of the RAC Foundation, said he backed an 80mph limit as long as it is enforced and is 'not seen as a limit that means 90mph'.
The 70mph limit was introduced in 1967 when car design and road handling were much more primitive. Any change is likely to be attacked by environmentalists because fuel consumption rises rapidly between 70 and 80mph.
========================================
So that's (part?) of the Century FM story then.
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
safespeed said:
Edmund King, executive director of the RAC Foundation, said he backed an 80mph limit as long as it is enforced and is 'not seen as a limit that means 90mph'.
So would this enforcement be supported or would enforcement be as equally derided as that done for the 70mph limit?
destroyer said:
Edmund King, executive director of the RAC Foundation, said he backed an 80mph limit as long as it is enforced and is 'not seen as a limit that means 90mph'.
So would this enforcement be supported or would enforcement be as equally derided as that done for the 70mph limit?
All limits are silly, they do not take into account any of the variables. Edmund King is a tosser and he is talking rubbish. The RAC will not be getting my money this year.
Raising a generic limit like the NSL is, in my opinion, pointless. It will not educate people about stopping distances. People will simply drive to NSL + 10% + 2 MPH and hope they get away with it.
I'd support this as part of a more wider reform i.e. more Trafpol, formalised arragements for IAM/RoSPA, but not just on its own.
I'd support this as part of a more wider reform i.e. more Trafpol, formalised arragements for IAM/RoSPA, but not just on its own.
The main reason fuel consumption rises above 70mph is because all the manufacturers programme the ECU's of the cars to lean off the mixture at 70mph to get good fuel economy reviews.
If they mapped their ecu's in a linear manner without playing the published fuel economy game, there would be little difference, and maybe on some cars an actual gain.
And as most cars on the motorway are already doing 80mph + the lentilists can do one!
Furthermore, as most folk know, a love of lentils in your diet creates excessive wind of an environmentaly unacceptable (well at least in our house) nature!
>> Edited by andygo on Tuesday 13th April 17:54
If they mapped their ecu's in a linear manner without playing the published fuel economy game, there would be little difference, and maybe on some cars an actual gain.
And as most cars on the motorway are already doing 80mph + the lentilists can do one!
Furthermore, as most folk know, a love of lentils in your diet creates excessive wind of an environmentaly unacceptable (well at least in our house) nature!
>> Edited by andygo on Tuesday 13th April 17:54
[quote=safespeed
The Government is also responding to a Conservative pledge to raise the motorway speed limit to 80mph, which is believed to be popular with the public.
Edmund King, executive director of the RAC Foundation, said: a lot of shite
[/quote]
Hmmm, the government are on the run. They think they'll appease the motorists before they lose votes.
I have my doubts if it'll work. Labour is so clearly anti-car it's not funny.
As for the limit itself, how will the technology take 5 years??? The Italians managed it in a year (but all they did was change the signs at the side of the road
)
Oh, I see, the installation of variable speed-limit cameras, procured under a labour government.
And for the record I travel at at least 80mph on the motorway anyway and my fuel economy never seems to change.
Andy
The Government is also responding to a Conservative pledge to raise the motorway speed limit to 80mph, which is believed to be popular with the public.
Edmund King, executive director of the RAC Foundation, said: a lot of shite
[/quote]
Hmmm, the government are on the run. They think they'll appease the motorists before they lose votes.
I have my doubts if it'll work. Labour is so clearly anti-car it's not funny.
As for the limit itself, how will the technology take 5 years??? The Italians managed it in a year (but all they did was change the signs at the side of the road
) Oh, I see, the installation of variable speed-limit cameras, procured under a labour government.
And for the record I travel at at least 80mph on the motorway anyway and my fuel economy never seems to change.
Andy
And the Germans have always been enviro-friendly. They started all the "save the planet! stuff back in the 80s, and you have to sort out your rubbish into which wheely bin so precisely (in Switzerland - you drive around till you find the one mit the hidden camera ) and they still manage have fun on most of their A/Bahn. 
) and they still manage have fun on most of their A/Bahn. ATG said:
We might just be able to match the French technology within five years. They have a sign at the side of the road which has two speeds posted on it and a picture of a rain cloud next to one of them. Terry wit from the MoT take a bow you thick tw@.
Quite - a simple system that costs nothing to run.
"The Transport Department is looking at whether variable limits, already in place along parts of the M25 around London and M42 in the Midlands, could be used to introduce an 80mph limit if con ditions are dry and the motorway is relatively traffic-free."So, for the M25, that will be never then? - Streaky
The trouble with all this upping the limit is that it will be so easy for them to raise it, and then implement zero tolerance.....I reckon it's better as it is. Everyone does 85-90mph on motorways when they're relatively traffic free anyhow. They'll do us all for 81mph, and take the moral high ground when we moan......because they'll say they gave us what we asked for (higher limit).
rospa said:
Raising a generic limit like the NSL is, in my opinion, pointless. It will not educate people about stopping distances. People will simply drive to NSL + 10% + 2 MPH and hope they get away with it.
Except that in practice drivers speeds don't change, or actually go down, as limits are raised to sensible levels.
streaky said:
"The Transport Department is looking at whether variable limits, already in place along parts of the M25 around London and M42 in the Midlands, could be used to introduce an 80mph limit if con ditions are dry and the motorway is relatively traffic-free."So, for the M25, that will be never then? - Streaky
I often reach the M25 at the M40 junction at around 7am. Traffic is reasonably light at that time, but the variable speed onto the M25 is always at 50mph by then. I wonder whether the Heathrow stretch is ever 70mph now? This is a gimmic!
telecat said:
If the Limit is to be raised and variable then raise it to 100 in dry conditions 70 in Wet, 50 in congested and 50 in Very wet/icy. BUT MAKE SURE THE SIGNS CHANGE to keep the motorists trust.
Blimey! People are confused with the limits now and they are one limit per road.
In reality, it will need to be simpler than that.
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