Cameras Cause Crashes
Discussion
1-In-3 Speed Cameras Failed To Cut Accidents
By Tim Walsh
17 April 2004
A third of Leicestershire's speed camera sites are not reducing the number of crash victims - despite costing motorists thousands of pounds in fines.
The controversial cameras are supposed to stop people speeding while reducing accident rates on the most dangerous stretches of road.
However, a Leicester Mercury investigation has found a mobile camera site at Saffron Lane raised more than £1,000 a week in fines while failing to cut the number of crashes from 20 a year.
At some sites - including St George's Way and London Road, Leicester - the accident rates went up after cameras were introduced there.
Now, the Mercury can exclusively reveal failing camera sites are to be fitted with vehicle-activated digital signs which flash up warnings to speeding motorists.
Camera bosses unveiled the £50,000 warning system as they admitted "concerns" that a third of Leicestershire's 99 mobile, fixed and red-light camera sites were failing to do their job......
[But the red-light ones are supposed to be the one's that definately definately work.
So how many of the speed cameras must be failing?]
.......At St George's Way, in Leicester, there used to be an average of 15 collisions a year in which at least one person was hurt. In its first year as a mobile camera site, the number of crashes was 18..............
From:
www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=132683&command=displayContent&sourceNode=132377&contentPK=9620441
By Tim Walsh
17 April 2004
A third of Leicestershire's speed camera sites are not reducing the number of crash victims - despite costing motorists thousands of pounds in fines.
The controversial cameras are supposed to stop people speeding while reducing accident rates on the most dangerous stretches of road.
However, a Leicester Mercury investigation has found a mobile camera site at Saffron Lane raised more than £1,000 a week in fines while failing to cut the number of crashes from 20 a year.
At some sites - including St George's Way and London Road, Leicester - the accident rates went up after cameras were introduced there.
Now, the Mercury can exclusively reveal failing camera sites are to be fitted with vehicle-activated digital signs which flash up warnings to speeding motorists.
Camera bosses unveiled the £50,000 warning system as they admitted "concerns" that a third of Leicestershire's 99 mobile, fixed and red-light camera sites were failing to do their job......
[But the red-light ones are supposed to be the one's that definately definately work.
So how many of the speed cameras must be failing?]
.......At St George's Way, in Leicester, there used to be an average of 15 collisions a year in which at least one person was hurt. In its first year as a mobile camera site, the number of crashes was 18..............
From:
www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=132683&command=displayContent&sourceNode=132377&contentPK=9620441
By the Scamera Pratnerships (no it's not a spelling mistake) own rules on the siting of Fleecing camera's, they are ALL sited at places of several FSI's.
If this is SO wouldn't it be a BLOODY GOOD IDEA to WARN MOTORISTS (many of whom will be strangers to the area) by placing those things called "BLACK SPOT" signs at these sites! Most of which seem to have DISAPPEARED and been replaced by BLOODY CAMERA's
(well we don't want them slowing down, do we!) (we don't want to tell them where the accidents happen - wouldn't look good on the figures would it!)
Can't we have signs which tell us what the historical accident danger is at that point. Inform us! NOT PERSECUTE US!
If this is SO wouldn't it be a BLOODY GOOD IDEA to WARN MOTORISTS (many of whom will be strangers to the area) by placing those things called "BLACK SPOT" signs at these sites! Most of which seem to have DISAPPEARED and been replaced by BLOODY CAMERA's
(well we don't want them slowing down, do we!) (we don't want to tell them where the accidents happen - wouldn't look good on the figures would it!)
Can't we have signs which tell us what the historical accident danger is at that point. Inform us! NOT PERSECUTE US!
8Pack said:As a matter of (very small) interest, there are signs on the A325 around the Penhurst Roundabout (and elsewhere for all I know) in Farnborough, Hampshire. They remind road users that it is a 30mph limited zone and that there were 18 "KSIs" on "this road" (over what length is unspecified) in the past year.
Can't we have signs which tell us what the historical accident danger is at that point. Inform us! NOT PERSECUTE US!
Note this is as at April 2004 and that particular sign was there in 2003 with exactly the same figure ... so either they haven't bothered to update the sign or the number of KSIs is unchanged, or it's gone down and they don't want to tell people that.
Streaky
streaky said:
Can't we have signs which tell us what the historical accident danger is at that point. Inform us! NOT PERSECUTE US!
As a matter of (very small) interest, there are signs on the A325 around the Penhurst Roundabout (and elsewhere for all I know) in Farnborough, Hampshire. They remind road users that it is a 30mph limited zone and that there were 18 "KSIs" on "this road" (over what length is unspecified) in the past year.
Note this is as at April 2004 and that particular sign was there in 2003 with exactly the same figure ... so either they haven't bothered to update the sign or the number of KSIs is unchanged, or it's gone down and they don't want to tell people that.
Streaky
On the A171 between Whitby and Guisborough a sign at Scaling Dam stated that there had been 111 casualties on that road over the past three years. That sign remained in place for at least two years, but it can not possibly have been correct for the whole of that period. In other words there is obviously no concern for accuracy in the information these twerps put out.
If I had my way we would get rid of the whole bunch of Scamera clowns and their wretched equipment, and install some proper road safety regimes.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I was looking at a sign claiming 12 KSIs a couple of months ago. It has been taken down now because several people did the research and discovered the 2 deaths were a boy and a girl in a stolen car who were decapitated when it hit a lamp post and the other 10 were whiplash claims for fender benders at traffic lights. 
I do sometimes wonder if Leicester City council understand road traffic. This is what I wrote to them recently. I'll post a follow-up if I get a reply:-
Dear Sir,
I have visited Meridian Park, off the A563, several times, and I have noticed that the speed limits on the slip roads from the A563 to Meridian Way seem to be making the roads more dangerous rather than safer.
The location is 52° 36’ 50”N,1° 11’ 22” W, where Meridian Way crosses the A563. The slip roads linking the roads are about 200 yards long and slope up from the A563 to Meridian Way. The A563 has a 50 mph limit, while Meridian Way has a 30 mph limit. I think that these limits are appropriate for the roads, but it is the transition between the two limits that concerns me.
The 30 mph limit starts and stops towards the bottom of the slip roads, near where the slip roads join the A563 and about 200 yards from the roundabouts on Meridian Way. I slow for these limits when leaving the A563, but in doing so I obviously surprise other drivers, who have to brake sharply when they realise how slowly I am going. When joining the A563 going south, I wait for the end of the 30 mph limit before accelerating beyond 30 mph, and this means that I have to join the A563 a lot slower than the traffic on it, and car drivers following me down the slip road expect me to be accelerating all the way down the slip road.
There is no need for a 30 mph limit on the majority of the slip roads. They are not roads where people walk, and 200 yards is very much longer than cars need to slow from 30 mph to a suitable speed of about 10 mph for approaching the roundabout.
I realise that the A563 is not a motorway, but for slip roads joining motorways, the Highway Code advises (www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.shtml#233) :-
“check the traffic on the motorway and adjust your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane”
This seems sensible advice that should apply when joining the A563 at this point, but it isn’t possible at this location because of the speed limit on the slip road.
The highway code also says (www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.shtml#246) :-
“signal left in good time and reduce your speed on the slip road as necessary.”
Again, this isn’t possible when leaving the A563 because I have to start slowing for the 30 mph limit well before the start of the speed limit. This means I have to do a lot of the deceleration on the main carriageway rather than on the slip road.
The slip roads are well engineered and provide plenty of distance and a helpful gradient to stop a car traveling at 50 mph, but the speed limits do not, in my opinion, allow proper use of the slip roads for decelerating and accelerating.
I would ask you to take the time to review where the 30 mph limits start, and see if their position could be improved.
If you feel that the speed limits are in the best possible positions, I would like to know why they are being generally ignored and not enforced on the slip roads.
Yours faithfully,
Dear Sir,
I have visited Meridian Park, off the A563, several times, and I have noticed that the speed limits on the slip roads from the A563 to Meridian Way seem to be making the roads more dangerous rather than safer.
The location is 52° 36’ 50”N,1° 11’ 22” W, where Meridian Way crosses the A563. The slip roads linking the roads are about 200 yards long and slope up from the A563 to Meridian Way. The A563 has a 50 mph limit, while Meridian Way has a 30 mph limit. I think that these limits are appropriate for the roads, but it is the transition between the two limits that concerns me.
The 30 mph limit starts and stops towards the bottom of the slip roads, near where the slip roads join the A563 and about 200 yards from the roundabouts on Meridian Way. I slow for these limits when leaving the A563, but in doing so I obviously surprise other drivers, who have to brake sharply when they realise how slowly I am going. When joining the A563 going south, I wait for the end of the 30 mph limit before accelerating beyond 30 mph, and this means that I have to join the A563 a lot slower than the traffic on it, and car drivers following me down the slip road expect me to be accelerating all the way down the slip road.
There is no need for a 30 mph limit on the majority of the slip roads. They are not roads where people walk, and 200 yards is very much longer than cars need to slow from 30 mph to a suitable speed of about 10 mph for approaching the roundabout.
I realise that the A563 is not a motorway, but for slip roads joining motorways, the Highway Code advises (www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.shtml#233) :-
“check the traffic on the motorway and adjust your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane”
This seems sensible advice that should apply when joining the A563 at this point, but it isn’t possible at this location because of the speed limit on the slip road.
The highway code also says (www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.shtml#246) :-
“signal left in good time and reduce your speed on the slip road as necessary.”
Again, this isn’t possible when leaving the A563 because I have to start slowing for the 30 mph limit well before the start of the speed limit. This means I have to do a lot of the deceleration on the main carriageway rather than on the slip road.
The slip roads are well engineered and provide plenty of distance and a helpful gradient to stop a car traveling at 50 mph, but the speed limits do not, in my opinion, allow proper use of the slip roads for decelerating and accelerating.
I would ask you to take the time to review where the 30 mph limits start, and see if their position could be improved.
If you feel that the speed limits are in the best possible positions, I would like to know why they are being generally ignored and not enforced on the slip roads.
Yours faithfully,
Good points,
As a rider to your comments, has anyone ever noticed the very poor signing, particularly in some towns. If you are a stranger there, you may notice that it is assumed that you have some local knowledge of the area.
I would urge those responsible for signing to:- take a step back and think "If I were a stranger here, would that confuse me?" Sometimes a direction is all that's req'd, i.e. N - S - E - W.
Some councils are obviously better than others, but I think ALL councils should realise that confusing traffic signs cause accidents.
As a rider to your comments, has anyone ever noticed the very poor signing, particularly in some towns. If you are a stranger there, you may notice that it is assumed that you have some local knowledge of the area.
I would urge those responsible for signing to:- take a step back and think "If I were a stranger here, would that confuse me?" Sometimes a direction is all that's req'd, i.e. N - S - E - W.
Some councils are obviously better than others, but I think ALL councils should realise that confusing traffic signs cause accidents.
8Pack said:
...I would urge those responsible for signing to:- take a step back and think "If I were a stranger here, would that confuse me?" Sometimes a direction is all that's req'd, i.e. N - S - E - W.
A letter in our local rag last week provoked an article this week. Basically, signs in Leamington Spa do not make it easy (understatement) to travel from south to north through the town, even though the route is an A-road.
The response from the Warwickshire Traffic Manager? "We wouldn't be expecting through traffic, and actually discourage it through Leamington... town centre, otherwise we would signpost the routes". :scream:
I recall when the M40 was opened, London was not mentioned on the signs to try to discourage traffic. Real bright, these people.
I agree with the sentiments about warnings of blackspots (and associated scamera), rather than a NIP a few days later.
I have just fallen foul of a Truvelo on the A1 (Markham Moor, N'bound), which I did not see as I was busy having a long view up the road to see if there was a tailback at the roundabout, so as to allow a safe deceleration (the sort of thing I was taught in my IAM Defensive Driver training).
The camera is apparently there 'cos there have been a few "run into back of stationary queue" type accidents - so why not one of those automatically activated signs, triggered by backed up traffic, which state "Queue Ahead - Slow Down!"? I have seen these elsewhere in the country.
Of course, the answer is that the above does not provide revenue, or fit with Nottingshire's anti-car politics.
Perhaps with an election on the way, and Tony Blair clearly getting jumpy, the current state of speed enforcement as opposed to road safety should be made into an election issue - any thoughts?
>> Edited by tvr_nut on Tuesday 20th April 09:30
I have just fallen foul of a Truvelo on the A1 (Markham Moor, N'bound), which I did not see as I was busy having a long view up the road to see if there was a tailback at the roundabout, so as to allow a safe deceleration (the sort of thing I was taught in my IAM Defensive Driver training).
The camera is apparently there 'cos there have been a few "run into back of stationary queue" type accidents - so why not one of those automatically activated signs, triggered by backed up traffic, which state "Queue Ahead - Slow Down!"? I have seen these elsewhere in the country.
Of course, the answer is that the above does not provide revenue, or fit with Nottingshire's anti-car politics.
Perhaps with an election on the way, and Tony Blair clearly getting jumpy, the current state of speed enforcement as opposed to road safety should be made into an election issue - any thoughts?
>> Edited by tvr_nut on Tuesday 20th April 09:30
Malin said:
I do sometimes wonder if Leicester City council understand road traffic. This is what I wrote to them recently. I'll post a follow-up if I get a reply:-
Dear Sir,
I have visited Meridian Park, off the A563, several times, and I have noticed that the speed limits on the slip roads from the A563 to Meridian Way seem to be making the roads more dangerous rather than safer.
The location is 52° 36’ 50”N,1° 11’ 22” W, where Meridian Way crosses the A563. The slip roads linking the roads are about 200 yards long and slope up from the A563 to Meridian Way. The A563 has a 50 mph limit, while Meridian Way has a 30 mph limit. I think that these limits are appropriate for the roads, but it is the transition between the two limits that concerns me.
The 30 mph limit starts and stops towards the bottom of the slip roads, near where the slip roads join the A563 and about 200 yards from the roundabouts on Meridian Way. I slow for these limits when leaving the A563, but in doing so I obviously surprise other drivers, who have to brake sharply when they realise how slowly I am going. When joining the A563 going south, I wait for the end of the 30 mph limit before accelerating beyond 30 mph, and this means that I have to join the A563 a lot slower than the traffic on it, and car drivers following me down the slip road expect me to be accelerating all the way down the slip road.
There is no need for a 30 mph limit on the majority of the slip roads. They are not roads where people walk, and 200 yards is very much longer than cars need to slow from 30 mph to a suitable speed of about 10 mph for approaching the roundabout.
I realise that the A563 is not a motorway, but for slip roads joining motorways, the Highway Code advises (www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.shtml#233) :-
“check the traffic on the motorway and adjust your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane”
This seems sensible advice that should apply when joining the A563 at this point, but it isn’t possible at this location because of the speed limit on the slip road.
The highway code also says (www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.shtml#246) :-
“signal left in good time and reduce your speed on the slip road as necessary.”
Again, this isn’t possible when leaving the A563 because I have to start slowing for the 30 mph limit well before the start of the speed limit. This means I have to do a lot of the deceleration on the main carriageway rather than on the slip road.
The slip roads are well engineered and provide plenty of distance and a helpful gradient to stop a car traveling at 50 mph, but the speed limits do not, in my opinion, allow proper use of the slip roads for decelerating and accelerating.
I would ask you to take the time to review where the 30 mph limits start, and see if their position could be improved.
If you feel that the speed limits are in the best possible positions, I would like to know why they are being generally ignored and not enforced on the slip roads.
Yours faithfully,
A well reasoned and argued case - problem is they might just read the last para, and put scameras on the slip roads? Maybe not, in light of Leicestershire Plods worries about persecution. I look forward to seeing their reply to your letter.
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