tachograph question for the BiB
Discussion
I have a feeling I already know the answer to this one, but just to check.
I am being asked to draw a line at the start/end of duty across the face of my tachos. While I appreciate this is not the heinous crime I could commit with a tacho, I have been told that it is an offence to write anything other than the usual details that go in the centerfield (defacing a tachograph).
Just filling in the disc in the normal fashion leaves them legible. Drawing a line (especially a nice fat ball point pen one) could disguise a possible infringement. I'm interested to hear your comments. I think the reason they want us to do this, is to make it easier for the people that analyse them.......
Philthy
I am being asked to draw a line at the start/end of duty across the face of my tachos. While I appreciate this is not the heinous crime I could commit with a tacho, I have been told that it is an offence to write anything other than the usual details that go in the centerfield (defacing a tachograph).
Just filling in the disc in the normal fashion leaves them legible. Drawing a line (especially a nice fat ball point pen one) could disguise a possible infringement. I'm interested to hear your comments. I think the reason they want us to do this, is to make it easier for the people that analyse them.......
Philthy
Who is asking you to do it?
If it is an instruction then if offences are committed in doing so, you may have a defence but the person Causing the offence i.e. the person instructing you to do so is committing the offence too.
You should not mark the tacho chart other than in the centre field. I cannot see why they want you to do so as it is quite apparent when the chart is put into the device and when it is taken out at the end of the duty period.
Marking the start and end of a duty period with a ball point pen line will not help a tacho analyser when he/she comes to analyse the chart. Most charts are now read by scanning them into software which does the analysis for the operator. I think that should answer your query.
If it is an instruction then if offences are committed in doing so, you may have a defence but the person Causing the offence i.e. the person instructing you to do so is committing the offence too.
You should not mark the tacho chart other than in the centre field. I cannot see why they want you to do so as it is quite apparent when the chart is put into the device and when it is taken out at the end of the duty period.
Marking the start and end of a duty period with a ball point pen line will not help a tacho analyser when he/she comes to analyse the chart. Most charts are now read by scanning them into software which does the analysis for the operator. I think that should answer your query.
Cheers gone, thats what I thought. It's the traffic office at wincanton transport. They gripe to my agency, and they kick down to me. As I'm sure your aware wincanton are very thorough when it comes to their operation, but it's not just them. I've had other haulage firms ask for the same. Up till now, I've told them that when I receive written and signed notification, acknowledging I'm doing it under duress, I'll start doing it for them. Strangely nobody has ever got back to me about it.
Philthy
Any other BiB encountered this?
Philthy
Any other BiB encountered this?
I really don't understand this at all. Even in the case of a vehicle with multiple drivers each driver has to have their own tacho chart. Thats in both the UK and EU legislation. Any of our drivers knows exactly they should not deface the chart bit in any way.
Thinking further about the wording of that legislation.
It couldn't be some numpty incorrectly interpreting the wording that on completing a chart a driver must show "place where use of chart begins" and "place where use of chart ends" as a biro line on the chart.
That is as opposed to filling in the appropriate fields in the middle of the chart with "Glasgow" and "Felixstowe" if those are the locations where your shift started and finished.
FiF
edited to add the following link http://tinyurl.com/3a5c7
which seems to indicate that it is OK to make manual entries anywhere else on the chart ref para 38
"38. Where should manual entries be made?
If a chart has a special place to make manual entries, usually on the reverse side, this is where they should be made. But they can be made anywhere on the chart provided they are clear and do not obliterate other recordings."
Hope that helps a bit more.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 27th April 16:26
Thinking further about the wording of that legislation.
It couldn't be some numpty incorrectly interpreting the wording that on completing a chart a driver must show "place where use of chart begins" and "place where use of chart ends" as a biro line on the chart.
That is as opposed to filling in the appropriate fields in the middle of the chart with "Glasgow" and "Felixstowe" if those are the locations where your shift started and finished.
FiF
edited to add the following link http://tinyurl.com/3a5c7
which seems to indicate that it is OK to make manual entries anywhere else on the chart ref para 38
"38. Where should manual entries be made?
If a chart has a special place to make manual entries, usually on the reverse side, this is where they should be made. But they can be made anywhere on the chart provided they are clear and do not obliterate other recordings."
Hope that helps a bit more.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 27th April 16:26
If your employer says you must do this, ask for it in writing. contact your union, and contact Brake. Get it in writing to protect yourself, contanct your union for legal advice and Brake have been on the side of truckers v employers for many years, and have a person who campains on behave of better working conditions for truckers.COVER YOURSELF do not get nicked for your boss
I think the Manual entries you are referring to Fif are permitted when the system goes kerrput on a journey and the obligation is then for the driver to make manual entries either on a Tacho sheet (reverse) or a seperate piece of paper that should be attached to the main sheet at the end of the day.
Looking at the principle legislation EEC 3821/85
www.tinyurl.com/lyca
it neither bans or permits the addition as outlined.
It permits central field entries at Article 15 plus others at 15(3)
There is great play that sheet should be preserved in a legible state which may be infringed by what is asked.
Knowing the size of Wincanton then I would suspect they will be on the ball but why when there are state of the art Chart Analysers beat me.
Definative answer may be obtained from VOSA for they check these things.
DVD
Looking at the principle legislation EEC 3821/85
www.tinyurl.com/lyca
it neither bans or permits the addition as outlined.
It permits central field entries at Article 15 plus others at 15(3)
There is great play that sheet should be preserved in a legible state which may be infringed by what is asked.
Knowing the size of Wincanton then I would suspect they will be on the ball but why when there are state of the art Chart Analysers beat me.
Definative answer may be obtained from VOSA for they check these things.
DVD
I'll keep you posted. The last firm I worked for wanted this done as well. I queried it, and they supposedly contacted either the RHA, or the people who were analysing our discs, who were the people to tell them to do it. I think FiF might be right, in that it is some numpty misinterpreting the regs. Now I think about it, I got a b
g off the post office for not doing it either.
Philthy
g off the post office for not doing it either. Philthy
Had the same argument with Wincantons. Just told them to piss off and read the regs properly. By the time they've actually read all apropriate tachograph laws and amendments i'll have retired. That's if they can actually make sence of the bloody things. At the end of the day mate the buck stops with you so if you don't think it's right then tell em to shove it.
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