Labour want's to tax drivers off the roads
Discussion
Report in todays Daily Mail says Kim Howells, Labour Transport minister, wants "motorists taxed off the road and on to public transport"
He wants to end our "love affair with the car"
He thinks fuel in UK is not particularly expensive and "if we listen to the environmental movement, it is cheaper than it should be"
Perhaps Kim doesn't realise that many of the scares about cars causing the planet to warm as never before are based on lies and junk science.
The lies are easily destroyed by non-politically funded scientific research which is studiously ignored by scientists seeking research grants to further their world tours probing into hypothetical solutions to a mythical problem created for political purposes.
A report in a local paper has Wales-based scientists wailing about a melting glacier in Patagonia "which can only be caused by rising air temperatures which prove man's fossil fuel burning is causing the earth to warm". What total rubbish. There are many reasons for glaciers melting and they are not just due to rising air temperatures. Why didn't they mention the glaciers which are advancing?
Had they bothered to look at local weather station records in South America, they would have found temperatures lower in 2003/4 than they were in 1930.
Of course when these facts are pointed out, to the bug-huggers and tax-hungry politicians, they scream blue murder. "Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind is made up!"
He wants to end our "love affair with the car"
He thinks fuel in UK is not particularly expensive and "if we listen to the environmental movement, it is cheaper than it should be"
Perhaps Kim doesn't realise that many of the scares about cars causing the planet to warm as never before are based on lies and junk science.
The lies are easily destroyed by non-politically funded scientific research which is studiously ignored by scientists seeking research grants to further their world tours probing into hypothetical solutions to a mythical problem created for political purposes.
A report in a local paper has Wales-based scientists wailing about a melting glacier in Patagonia "which can only be caused by rising air temperatures which prove man's fossil fuel burning is causing the earth to warm". What total rubbish. There are many reasons for glaciers melting and they are not just due to rising air temperatures. Why didn't they mention the glaciers which are advancing?
Had they bothered to look at local weather station records in South America, they would have found temperatures lower in 2003/4 than they were in 1930.
Of course when these facts are pointed out, to the bug-huggers and tax-hungry politicians, they scream blue murder. "Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind is made up!"
When public transport becomes a well priced viable alternative to the car, I will still take the car but be pleased that other people can get around.
Fact of the matter is that that will never happen.
It was considerably cheaper to drive my TVR in and out of London on a daily basis than to take the train. Thats not even a cheap car, but a bloody TVR. Its a joke.
For a family of four to go from London to Cardiff its considerably cheaper in a brand new Bentley!
The fact is that public transport is only an alternative within Central London and even then it depends on the journey undertaken.
I'm with Sandwich. Public transport encourages the working classes to move around and that is never a good thing...
Fact of the matter is that that will never happen.
It was considerably cheaper to drive my TVR in and out of London on a daily basis than to take the train. Thats not even a cheap car, but a bloody TVR. Its a joke.
For a family of four to go from London to Cardiff its considerably cheaper in a brand new Bentley!
The fact is that public transport is only an alternative within Central London and even then it depends on the journey undertaken.
I'm with Sandwich. Public transport encourages the working classes to move around and that is never a good thing...
Tafia said:And don't forget, the summers were hot and long enough to grow grapes for wine in Northern England during the Middle Ages. I don't think there were cars then ; - Streaky
[ ... ]
Had they bothered to look at local weather station records in South America, they would have found temperatures lower in 2003/4 than they were in 1930.
[ ... ]
streaky said:
[ ... ]
Had they bothered to look at local weather station records in South America, they would have found temperatures lower in 2003/4 than they were in 1930.
[ ... ]
And don't forget, the summers were hot and long enough to grow grapes for wine in Northern England during the Middle Ages. I don't think there were cars then ; - Streaky
Yup, we have just been going through a planetary cold snap. Do you think the lentilists will say sorry when they are proved wrong?
At least they've finally admitted it now. Hopefully that comment will bite him on the arse in the near future.
I don't have a problem with leaving the car at home for local journeys, but for anything mid to long distance there really is no other option (except flying, which is really green...).
I follow Watford FC around the country. On a normal away game there'll be three of us in one car. Now, if Kim Howells can find a way of getting three people to Sheffield and back on a Tuesday night for £25 (cost of a tank of petrol) and in the same amount of time then I'll listen to him. One of the things preventing me using trains more often (other than the cost) is that half the time they've stopped running before the end of the game, so I'd have no way of getting home. We thought about getting the train to Sunderland a few seasons back - Virgin wanted £80 EACH!
What exactly will taxing the average motorist off the road achieve anyway? For a kick off you'll have more people on the dole because their place of work isn't served by public transport, so the cost of the benefit system will rocket, meaning you'll have to tax people even more, except you can't because they're all out of work because their out of town business park (who gave planning permission for that then?) doesn't have decent transport links. That's joined up thinking....
Classic example in Watford - the Croxley Business park is miles from anywhere, and can only be accessed by car. In fact, the access road was built through an old disused railway line! Now, the access problem would be solved if the Croxley rail link ever gets built, which would take the Met line into Watford Junction, but guess what? Not enough funding!
Then there's all the out of town retail parks. Quite apart from the fact that none of them have any public transport links, how exactly are you supposed to get a fridge freezer home on the bus?!
How is an empty train greener than a full car? Where's the electricity coming from Kim? Maybe if the Government (any Government!) could get a grip on the railways people would use them more often. There was a classic example a while back - guy wanted to get from London to Liverpool for the football. Return rail fare was something like £200. In the end he flew from Stansted to Brussels, then from Brussels to Liverpool for £100 return! What sort of incentive is that to use the train?!
I don't have a problem with leaving the car at home for local journeys, but for anything mid to long distance there really is no other option (except flying, which is really green...).
I follow Watford FC around the country. On a normal away game there'll be three of us in one car. Now, if Kim Howells can find a way of getting three people to Sheffield and back on a Tuesday night for £25 (cost of a tank of petrol) and in the same amount of time then I'll listen to him. One of the things preventing me using trains more often (other than the cost) is that half the time they've stopped running before the end of the game, so I'd have no way of getting home. We thought about getting the train to Sunderland a few seasons back - Virgin wanted £80 EACH!
What exactly will taxing the average motorist off the road achieve anyway? For a kick off you'll have more people on the dole because their place of work isn't served by public transport, so the cost of the benefit system will rocket, meaning you'll have to tax people even more, except you can't because they're all out of work because their out of town business park (who gave planning permission for that then?) doesn't have decent transport links. That's joined up thinking....
Classic example in Watford - the Croxley Business park is miles from anywhere, and can only be accessed by car. In fact, the access road was built through an old disused railway line! Now, the access problem would be solved if the Croxley rail link ever gets built, which would take the Met line into Watford Junction, but guess what? Not enough funding!
Then there's all the out of town retail parks. Quite apart from the fact that none of them have any public transport links, how exactly are you supposed to get a fridge freezer home on the bus?!
How is an empty train greener than a full car? Where's the electricity coming from Kim? Maybe if the Government (any Government!) could get a grip on the railways people would use them more often. There was a classic example a while back - guy wanted to get from London to Liverpool for the football. Return rail fare was something like £200. In the end he flew from Stansted to Brussels, then from Brussels to Liverpool for £100 return! What sort of incentive is that to use the train?!
Tafia said:
Report in todays Daily Mail says Kim Howells, Labour Transport minister, wants "motorists taxed off the road and on to public transport"
He wants to end our "love affair with the car"
Gimp. He can only have views like that because the results would not apply to him.
Personally I think anyone who lives and works in London should not be allowed to vote on Transport issues other than those that affect London's own public/private transport. Beacuase they simply don't understand small town and rural life.
That would rule out all the MPs of course.
Bloody good thing too.
wits out of power now! and never ever,ever let them back in againforever_driving said:
If all public transport was free, I might just use it.
Maybe
I doubt I would unless I had no altenative. My dear wife and I used the Wirral / Merseyside railway to get to Liverpool from Hooton several times in the last couple of years.
At least 60% of the time, the passengers had to endure gangs of little (and not so little) thugs roaming the trains, spitting, cursing, fighting and generally being a real pain in the rear.
Though there were often several adult males on the trains, none of us said a word, as we are savvy enough to know that if we did, we would end up either in court or hospital. These are morons I would happily cross the street to avoid, so I would certainly not want to travel with them.
What to do?
At the moment they are scaring us away from public transport with high costs, crap times, crap locations and generally all round crap service.
Make this better and most people would just use it anyway. Id much prefer a nice clean bus/train that ran frequently between home and work. Then I could read or sleep for the 1 hour journey.
(Well, its almost an hour by car so probably a little more than that).
Make this better and most people would just use it anyway. Id much prefer a nice clean bus/train that ran frequently between home and work. Then I could read or sleep for the 1 hour journey.
(Well, its almost an hour by car so probably a little more than that).
streaky said:
[ ... ]
Had they bothered to look at local weather station records in South America, they would have found temperatures lower in 2003/4 than they were in 1930.
[ ... ]
And don't forget, the summers were hot and long enough to grow grapes for wine in Northern England during the Middle Ages. I don't think there were cars then ; - Streaky
And Mars Surveyor pictures prove the southern ice cap on Mars is "losing ice at an alarming rate"
www.enterprisemission.com/warming.htm
Must be those likkle green men and their SUV's.
No offence intended to other likkle green men (or women) who may be upset by this accusation.........
isnt This transport minister the guy who is being Investigated by the Police for burning importent documents that linked the Union he was something to do with and the killing of someone during the miners strike?
I seem to remember a story about this in the last few month's. How did we end up with these pricks in possitions of power
I seem to remember a story about this in the last few month's. How did we end up with these pricks in possitions of power
pesty said:
isnt This transport minister the guy who is being Investigated by the Police for burning importent documents that linked the Union he was something to do with and the killing of someone during the miners strike?
I seem to remember a story about this in the last few month's. How did we end up with these pricks in possitions of power
Voter apathy I suspect.. I bet we aren't apathetic next time!
It's all about stopping people moving around! The more we move, the more we know. The more we know the less "god" like our leaders appear to be. It's no conincedence that the most despised regimes in modern times left or right wing "controlled" movement of people. If nobody knows what others think they believe its "just" them. The rise of the Greens and the Animal Liberation front was just the start. Now that the "net" is with us then others use it to connect with like minds. The Countryside alliance is one example where the Government thought they had the support of the country only to find that the earlier organisers had been been usurped by an "actual" majority that had found ways to communicate. It does bring its downsides, paedophiles being one. But the more people talk the more the Government's try to rell us in.
What flucking public transport 
mybrainhurts said:
The good Dr Howls needs to be locked in a porterloo and carefully inserted in the North Sea from a great height...............
I concour with the Honourable gentleman, i beg however to differ slightly on the insertion method, ie; not "carefully" so much as carelessly.
...(in other words i want it to hurt him).
I don't get it. I used to have a "local" job when the Torie's were in. I could cycle if I wanted to go tot pub lunchtime & get bladdered. Now I HAVE to drive 'cos public (spit) transport would take 2.5 hours. Great. Even if it was FREE I couldn't afford the time, and that's after Billy Liars mob got in that they closed my office & "consolidated".
Cretins the lot of them.
Cretins the lot of them.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff