got us a summons!!
Discussion
Not sure how to play this one ,but my mrs has recieved a summons to court for failing to identify the driver on a speeding fine-trouble is we have had problems with our mail deliveries what with it being a new build house and with neighbours two doors up having the same last name as ours-it's taken a year for us to recieve our electricity bill!! -we honestly have never recieved either of the two nip's that northumbria police claim to have sent.----what do we do now??? heeyyuuulllp!!
Before deciding to roll over without a fight, you should be aware that, in general, MS90 (failure to supply) points are treated more severely, sometimes considerably so, than SP** (speeding) points by insurance companies.
The max. points for S172 is three (I assume that the alleged speed is not err.. outrageous, because they can ban).
So, you are balancing a potentially worse fine against the increased insurance.
Get your wife to get a quote before she folds on S172.
The max. points for S172 is three (I assume that the alleged speed is not err.. outrageous, because they can ban).
So, you are balancing a potentially worse fine against the increased insurance.
Get your wife to get a quote before she folds on S172.
interesting that the mags we know always seem okay, but the decisions made in courts, that we read about in the papers are frequently bizarre and unacceptable....rather like finding out that all the police we meet (in reality and on here) we like...yet what we see on tv and read in papers or "well my mate once....." suggests they're all heavy-handed boot boys.
draw your own conclusions to that one
draw your own conclusions to that one
anyway back to the case in hand - i'm going to pop into local copshop tomorrow and ask for some guidance.
I am concerned that the summons appears to call for my wife to attend in person-trouble being she is very pregnant and has been advised not to drive due to probs during the pregnancy-she will have no way of getting to court to defend herself.
I am also a little irked that the letter asks me to confirm exactly how much money comes into the household and our monthly outgoings--i'm not applying for a bl**dy loan!! seems to me the force has lost it's direction a little and is heading into the finance markets(just an observation -not here to start a fight)
I am concerned that the summons appears to call for my wife to attend in person-trouble being she is very pregnant and has been advised not to drive due to probs during the pregnancy-she will have no way of getting to court to defend herself.
I am also a little irked that the letter asks me to confirm exactly how much money comes into the household and our monthly outgoings--i'm not applying for a bl**dy loan!! seems to me the force has lost it's direction a little and is heading into the finance markets(just an observation -not here to start a fight)
Oh-nearly forgot,my wife also knew of this speed camera and braked in plenty time for it -yet was snapped(allegedly)at 68mph in a 50 zone,she can't explain it -seems to be at least 10mph more than she normally goes thru' 50 zones(but don't tell anyone)
any angles for querying the evidence as we still havent seen and hard proof -who do we request the pics from?
any angles for querying the evidence as we still havent seen and hard proof -who do we request the pics from?
Was snapped last year by infamous N.Wales force at 86mph in a 60 in wife's car (oops). I researched this very fully! Suggest you check out Association of British Drivers website for huge amount of helpful info
www.abd.org.uk (if you can't access something, I'll check for you as I'm a member)and www.speed-trap.co.uk
The Court would allow a postponement if your wife cannot safely travel, if you explain this in writing.
One complete way out is that the owner is convincingly unable to i.d. the driver; they put huge pressure on you to do this you can resist & but if it cannot be disproved (ie. not recognisable in the photo)there are many recent precedents in law that the owner CANNOT be prosecuted. We refused to ID for 4 months, but my wife wouldn't go to the Court in the end so couldn't enter this plea.
The Police force issuing the NIP must supply a copy of the photographic evidence upon request. Good luck.
www.abd.org.uk (if you can't access something, I'll check for you as I'm a member)and www.speed-trap.co.uk
The Court would allow a postponement if your wife cannot safely travel, if you explain this in writing.
One complete way out is that the owner is convincingly unable to i.d. the driver; they put huge pressure on you to do this you can resist & but if it cannot be disproved (ie. not recognisable in the photo)there are many recent precedents in law that the owner CANNOT be prosecuted. We refused to ID for 4 months, but my wife wouldn't go to the Court in the end so couldn't enter this plea.
The Police force issuing the NIP must supply a copy of the photographic evidence upon request. Good luck.
cbr-chris said:
I am also a little irked that the letter asks me to confirm exactly how much money comes into the household and our monthly outgoings--i'm not applying for a bl**dy loan!!
My matters been going on for 18 months and it's still not been to court. I never completed the earnings form. Why should I let them put my details on their database if I haven't been fined? Chuck that part away, maybe it wasn't enclosed with the summons.
Thanks tailslide & boost for giving me a little hope in this matter ,i'll check out the abd site tomorrow when i'm sober! we are going to send the forms back along with a letter explaining the post problems we are having here but we are not sending any financial details as that is taking ths p**s.-will report back as i get responses from the relevant departments.will also request evidence photos and see if anybody can be identified thanks again chris
cbr-chris said:
any angles for querying the evidence as we still havent seen and hard proof
It's too late for questioning the accuracy of the camera, she's not being prosecuted for speeding; she's being prosecuted for failure to supply.
That said, was there no photo attached to the administrator's S9 witness statement?
There would have to be some sort of 'prima facie' evidence that an offence (speeding) had been committed in the first place.
safetyfirst said:
Surely you have to be believed when you say you did not receive the NIP'S,
No, you don't have to believed. You have to convince the court.
safetyfirst said:
The onus is on the Courts to Prove you Received them?
No it's not. The onus is on you to prove that you didn't. Very difficult in the case of non-receipt, but there you go.
>> Edited by jeffreyarcher on Saturday 8th May 22:56
As a general rule, you wouldn't receive full photos/statements (disclosure)etc at the first instance for a summary offence, as some choose not to contest the allegation, and plead guilty at the earliest opportunity.
If you intend to plead not guilty, you are entitled to full disclosure, to enable you to prepare any defence.
I appreciate you have already received some good advice from other PHers on this forum, but have you also considered using a solicitor? There are now several specialising in this area, but obviously this will cost you money (although it may avoid a conviction).
If you intend to plead not guilty, you are entitled to full disclosure, to enable you to prepare any defence.
I appreciate you have already received some good advice from other PHers on this forum, but have you also considered using a solicitor? There are now several specialising in this area, but obviously this will cost you money (although it may avoid a conviction).
I would think you have a very good chance of getting off free. Providing, that is, you can convince the court you never received the NIPs, and your description sounds reasonable from your opening post 'statement'.
If they accept this they will then be left with resending the NIP, and by now you will have very little chance of remembering who was driving, after all it was some months ago now I presume? Ask for the photos to aid your memory, no clear picture, no case to answer.
If they accept this they will then be left with resending the NIP, and by now you will have very little chance of remembering who was driving, after all it was some months ago now I presume? Ask for the photos to aid your memory, no clear picture, no case to answer.
I've just posted off a nice letter to relevant ticket office (by registered post & i kept copies too)detailing the postal probs here and asking them to call the dogs off a bit.mentioned the wife was too pregnant to travel to court case and asked them to send some sort of pic so we can identify driver-all very reasonable requests/explanations for the probs and worded very politely and sincerely..i'll give it a couple of days and see what the lovely man at the ticket office has to say -
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