Live music in a pub beer garden
Discussion
I've just got home from a weekend away to find the pub next door have decided to have their live entertainment (unamplified) in their small beer garden (courtyard) this afternoon. Under a licence for the performance of live music are they allowed to do this?
Before anyone asks, I was here long before a "live music" pub decided to move in and try and push what they can get away with on the residents next door.
Before anyone asks, I was here long before a "live music" pub decided to move in and try and push what they can get away with on the residents next door.
fergywales said:
Without know specifics (volume of performance, premises licence details, time of performance) it is difficult to say. You did state unamplified however, and didn't say whether it was actually causing a nuisance.
Obviously it's causing a nuisance, they have a performance license for live music; my question is, does this extend outside?As for the next poster, the pub has been there for years, but was a "boozer", until it was let to a new landlord who decided to go down the live music route. However, quite a few dozen people live in very close proximity.
Popeyed said:
fergywales said:
Without know specifics (volume of performance, premises licence details, time of performance) it is difficult to say. You did state unamplified however, and didn't say whether it was actually causing a nuisance.
Obviously it's causing a nuisance, they have a performance license for live music; my question is, does this extend outside?As for the next poster, the pub has been there for years, but was a "boozer", until it was let to a new landlord who decided to go down the live music route. However, quite a few dozen people live in very close proximity.
In my experience of the licensed trade, it is very unlikely that a venue will have a licence to allow outdoor performance. A TEN on a bank holiday might allow it though.
If it is bothering you, and it goes on to a late hour (beyond sunset) take note of nuisance and contact licensing department at your LA on Tuesday.
Popeyed said:
Obviously it's causing a nuisance, they have a performance license for live music; my question is, does this extend outside?
I'd assume it depends on the licence granted in this case? My thoughts would be the licence is for the 'venue' so where in or outside the pub the band is would be part of the application.FraserLFA said:
My understanding is that this is a civil matter under Tort. They are disrupting your enjoyment of your land and causing a nuisance, and if you want it stopped, you could start a civil case against them.
I may be completely wrong though.
You are wrong, but it is a bank holiday. I may be completely wrong though.
Hooli said:
I'd assume it depends on the licence granted in this case? My thoughts would be the licence is for the 'venue' so where in or outside the pub the band is would be part of the application.
I've had a look at their license, it does not specify outside or inside, however, for "sporting events" it states "indoors". A very brief review of the Licencing Act (2003) had not answered my question, hence my approach to the knowledgable Pistonheads!They have annoyed several of my neighbours over the previous few months who have complained independently, so I'm not alone in being annoyed by their antics. They seem to be trying to get away with what they can, without the council becoming involved (who have been very harsh in their recent requirements for a town centre venue where residents complained.) Hence I'm looking to see if they are operating outside their licence, if not, then the local council's environemntal noise department will be my next call.
my reaction times are good today.Popeyed said:
Before anyone asks, I was here long before a "live music" pub decided to move in and try and push what they can get away with on the residents next door.
Doesn't matter if you did, claiming someone came to a nuisance is no defence in most cases. As an isolated event, at reasonable hours, unless they are breaking any performing/licence conditions you'll have to suck it up.
You could keep a diary of disruption in case it becomes frequent, in which case you could sue for private nuisance (repeated violation of your amenity/quiet enjoyment of your property) - injunctive relief.
Or try statutory nuisance - prejudicial to health or a nuisance - (Environmental Protection Act 1990 via Council's environmental health or direct at Magistrates court).
Edited by Mr GrimNasty on Sunday 24th April 19:41
You can object to a music licence even when it has been allowed. However, I would suggest that unamplified music on a bank holiday afternoon is unlikely to get a lot of sympathy. A lot depends on the area though. If the garden licensed premises? Sometimes it is not.
What is the general area like? Is it all residences with the pub the only non dwelling? What time did it go on to? Was there any trouble when it broke up? Was there excessive noise after 11pm? Was the noise ever oppressive? Was parking chaotic? How about any other offences, especially against public decency or fighting, that sort of thing? These are the sort of things you can bring up for the licence objections.
However, pubs have to make a living as well. You moved into the area knowing full well that the pub was there. You get the benefit of lower house prices, so some might feel a little bit of music on a bank holiday afternoon is a small charge.
What is the general area like? Is it all residences with the pub the only non dwelling? What time did it go on to? Was there any trouble when it broke up? Was there excessive noise after 11pm? Was the noise ever oppressive? Was parking chaotic? How about any other offences, especially against public decency or fighting, that sort of thing? These are the sort of things you can bring up for the licence objections.
However, pubs have to make a living as well. You moved into the area knowing full well that the pub was there. You get the benefit of lower house prices, so some might feel a little bit of music on a bank holiday afternoon is a small charge.
Derek Smith said:
You can object to a music licence even when it has been allowed. However, I would suggest that unamplified music on a bank holiday afternoon is unlikely to get a lot of sympathy. A lot depends on the area though. If the garden licensed premises? Sometimes it is not.
Firstly, no such thing as a 'music licence', it is a part of a venue's premises licence, listed under entertainment specifics. Secondly, you cannot object once it has been granted, you can make a complaint or application with grounds to revoke to the LA licensing department, who may choose to review the licence. Finally, any indoor or outdoor area of a venue has to be specified within the plan which forms part of the premises licence.Popeyed said:
I've had a look at their license, it does not specify outside or inside, however, for "sporting events" it states "indoors". A very brief review of the Licencing Act (2003) had not answered my question, hence my approach to the knowledgable Pistonheads!
They have annoyed several of my neighbours over the previous few months who have complained independently, so I'm not alone in being annoyed by their antics. They seem to be trying to get away with what they can, without the council becoming involved (who have been very harsh in their recent requirements for a town centre venue where residents complained.) Hence I'm looking to see if they are operating outside their licence, if not, then the local council's environemntal noise department will be my next call.
I used to work for the council in General Licensing about 5 years ago, so know all about this!They have annoyed several of my neighbours over the previous few months who have complained independently, so I'm not alone in being annoyed by their antics. They seem to be trying to get away with what they can, without the council becoming involved (who have been very harsh in their recent requirements for a town centre venue where residents complained.) Hence I'm looking to see if they are operating outside their licence, if not, then the local council's environemntal noise department will be my next call.
Their full licence includes a map/diagram of the premises including exact boundaries of where beer can be consumed etc. the licence in the bar is just a summary. If you call your local council licensing unit, they will be able to advise if they can play live music outside, and if they have a licence for live music at all, which is unlikely.
To gain this licence to play live music in the beer garden, they will have had to put up an notice on the door or window, much like a planning application back when 24hour licensing came in. This was a legal requirement, so you should have been able to see exactly what they were wanting to do then, and object if required.
From memory, not many pubs did request the addition of live music to their licence, and it wasn't given as standard(if they didn't bother to put in an application, they got a pretty basic 10am-11pm licence with no frills), but every council is different. It was also 5 years ago, so my memory may not be perfect of this!
Most likely they don't have live music on the licence, or the ability to play music in the beer-garden. if this is the case they will need a Special Events Licence for this event. you can ask the council if they have applied for one.
Basically phone the council, chat to them about the weather and council cuts etc, and see what they say about the pub. They can potentially have their licence revoked for not following it, but it's unlikely unless drugs and underage kids are involved!
Efbe said:
Some out of date information along with some specifics to a local area
Licensing law has moved on quite a bit in the last 5 years. Most of your post is now out of date, some of it is locally applied bylaws and your comment regarding revocation of a licence is so far off the mark I cannot comment!Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff