Insurance voided due to car having PPF! HELP PLEASE!
Discussion
Acuity30 said:
You modded the car which increases it's value and didn't tell the insurers to avoid a raised premium, therefore it should be, and is, void.
woollyjoe said:
...
Declared PPF since beginning of insurance.
Got rear ended and insurance covered PPF.
Got hit again couple years later. Now I am told it is an undeclared modification...
Don't know what your Acuity refers to, but it doesn't appear to be visual.Declared PPF since beginning of insurance.
Got rear ended and insurance covered PPF.
Got hit again couple years later. Now I am told it is an undeclared modification...
woollyjoe said:
I am engaging Xpel and others to explore this topic which seems newsworthy...
My bonnet bumper and wing are protected from damage by the PPF which healed itself too, but insurers see it as some sort of enemy!
I am told it is a bigger industry fight where the cost of repairs on cars are increasing and insurers fighting on every angle they can - I just think they've picked the wrong fight with PPF!
PPF complicates repairs.My bonnet bumper and wing are protected from damage by the PPF which healed itself too, but insurers see it as some sort of enemy!
I am told it is a bigger industry fight where the cost of repairs on cars are increasing and insurers fighting on every angle they can - I just think they've picked the wrong fight with PPF!
PPF is a wrap, albeit a transparent one, but in terms of repair work the implications are the same.
If the car needs paint, then it can't practically have a wrap applied soon after as the paint needs to cure. This can take a month or more. It is suggested that if you garage the car you should wait 60-90 days before applying PPF to painted areas.
Painting and wrapping are two different disciplines, and invariably aren't done by the same companies. Therefore if your wrapped/PPF'd car is involved in an accident and the insurer is expecting to have to return it to exactly the condition it was in, it might have to visit at least two places, with significant time in between (time = courtesy car costs), etc.
So, yes, insurers don't hate wraps because they are uncool - they load them or refuse to insure at all because they complicate repairs considerably.
(That being said in your particular circumstances it sounds like Aviva are wrong, if they took your money and knew about the PPF).
Edited by Durzel on Thursday 9th May 13:13
defblade said:
Don't know what your Acuity refers to, but it doesn't appear to be visual.
You expect me to read 23 pages of simpletons arguing? But to answer your post, insurance broker made a mistake first time around and/or changed their terms and conditions. Not declaring a mod is insurance fraud, end of. More like dullblade.
Acuity30 said:
You expect me to read 23 pages of simpletons arguing?
But to answer your post, insurance broker made a mistake first time around and/or changed their terms and conditions. Not declaring a mod is insurance fraud, end of. More like dullblade.
He did declare it. It's right there in the quote someone else helpfully provided you.But to answer your post, insurance broker made a mistake first time around and/or changed their terms and conditions. Not declaring a mod is insurance fraud, end of. More like dullblade.
Acuity30 said:
You expect me to read 23 pages of simpletons arguing?
Maybe at least read a few posts back, so you know the context before jumping in with both feet in your mouth?The OP (who hadn't declared PPF) won his case with the ombudsman last November.
woolyjoe's situation (who DID declare PPF) is the the current topic.
Acuity30 said:
Not declaring a mod is insurance fraud, end of.
Not 'end of' at all. You can read the law if you want. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/6/introd...This is why I have e-mailed my insurance company my excel document which has all the entries for the modifications and changes done to the car such as OEM parts replacing old, worn out parts. I really hope I never have to claim, but this way around there are no get out clauses for them.
This thread even had me check to make sure my PPS was included in that document, thankfully it is.
This thread even had me check to make sure my PPS was included in that document, thankfully it is.
silentbrown said:
Not 'end of' at all. You can read the law if you want. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/6/introd...
OK:(2)It is the duty of the consumer to take reasonable care not to make a misrepresentation to the insurer.
Acuity30 said:
OK:
(2)It is the duty of the consumer to take reasonable care not to make a misrepresentation to the insurer.
And again for the hard of reading..(2)It is the duty of the consumer to take reasonable care not to make a misrepresentation to the insurer.
defblade said:
Acuity30 said:
You modded the car which increases it's value and didn't tell the insurers to avoid a raised premium, therefore it should be, and is, void.
woollyjoe said:
...
Declared PPF since beginning of insurance.
Got rear ended and insurance covered PPF.
Got hit again couple years later. Now I am told it is an undeclared modification...
Don't know what your Acuity refers to, but it doesn't appear to be visual.Declared PPF since beginning of insurance.
Got rear ended and insurance covered PPF.
Got hit again couple years later. Now I am told it is an undeclared modification...
Acuity30 said:
silentbrown said:
Not 'end of' at all. You can read the law if you want. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/6/introd...
OK:(2)It is the duty of the consumer to take reasonable care not to make a misrepresentation to the insurer.
"reasonable care", and "misrepresentation".
If they ask "has the engine been modified", and you've strapped a turbo to it, you're bang to rights.
If they ask "has the engine been modified", and - unknown to you - a previous owner has chipped it, you should be safe.
If they *only* ask "has the engine been modified", but you've added coilovers, that's not a misrepresentation.
It's all about answering the questions as asked with reasonable care, as the OP's ombudsman decision shows.
silentbrown said:
Exactly.
"reasonable care", and "misrepresentation".
If they ask "has the engine been modified", and you've strapped a turbo to it, you're bang to rights.
If they ask "has the engine been modified", and - unknown to you - a previous owner has chipped it, you should be safe.
If they *only* ask "has the engine been modified", but you've added coilovers, that's not a misrepresentation.
It's all about answering the questions as asked with reasonable care, as the OP's ombudsman decision shows.
There's literally a box you can tick as a declared mod on most insurance websites which PPF falls into, ignoring that is without reasonable care, ombudsman was lenient "reasonable care", and "misrepresentation".
If they ask "has the engine been modified", and you've strapped a turbo to it, you're bang to rights.
If they ask "has the engine been modified", and - unknown to you - a previous owner has chipped it, you should be safe.
If they *only* ask "has the engine been modified", but you've added coilovers, that's not a misrepresentation.
It's all about answering the questions as asked with reasonable care, as the OP's ombudsman decision shows.
Interesting. I have a friend who has an overfinch range rover. Claimed for wheel damage due to the usual pothole issue as did two wheels on the same crevasse. When he went through the claim he was told it was void as it had been modified. It is listed as overfinch range rover on the policy (not sure if they do on the V5) but his view was it was an overfinsh/range rover product which I would also think was the case. Insurers said no and had to change the policy and cost, but they were reasonable and settled the claim for him.
Assume therefore Alpina BMWs etc would carry same risk if not claimed as a separate mod?
Assume therefore Alpina BMWs etc would carry same risk if not claimed as a separate mod?
Acuity30 said:
silentbrown said:
Exactly.
"reasonable care", and "misrepresentation".
If they ask "has the engine been modified", and you've strapped a turbo to it, you're bang to rights.
If they ask "has the engine been modified", and - unknown to you - a previous owner has chipped it, you should be safe.
If they *only* ask "has the engine been modified", but you've added coilovers, that's not a misrepresentation.
It's all about answering the questions as asked with reasonable care, as the OP's ombudsman decision shows.
There's literally a box you can tick as a declared mod on most insurance websites which PPF falls into, ignoring that is without reasonable care, ombudsman was lenient "reasonable care", and "misrepresentation".
If they ask "has the engine been modified", and you've strapped a turbo to it, you're bang to rights.
If they ask "has the engine been modified", and - unknown to you - a previous owner has chipped it, you should be safe.
If they *only* ask "has the engine been modified", but you've added coilovers, that's not a misrepresentation.
It's all about answering the questions as asked with reasonable care, as the OP's ombudsman decision shows.
look at the section of the post that has been highlighted. Does that help you to understand?
woollyjoe said:
...
Declared PPF since beginning of insurance.
Got rear ended and insurance covered PPF.
Got hit again couple years later. Now I am told it is an undeclared modification...
Declared PPF since beginning of insurance.
Got rear ended and insurance covered PPF.
Got hit again couple years later. Now I am told it is an undeclared modification...
This is all very strange. I have insurance with Aviva and at each renewal they send me an "Information provided by you" document. The very first line says "IMPORTANT - This is the information that you provided to us when applying for your policy". The first page has a section with the title "Your Insured Vehicle". This section is divided into 2 parts. A paragraph in the second part concerns modifications, and it will list any that have been declared or say "no modifications" if there are none or none have been declared.
The modification at issue in this case should thus be listed on that document and as Aviva are contesting the assertion that the modification was declared then it presumably is not listed. As I see it there are only two possible scenarios here. Either the modification was listed in earlier years and disappeared at a subsequent renewal and the OP failed to check the documents thoroughly enough at that renewal to notice, or it was never listed from the outset and the OP failed to check the policy documents thoroughly enough when he first took out the policy. It seems to me therefore that the matter hinges on whether it is reasonable for the insurer to honour something the policy holder claims to have declared but which said policy holder failed to notice was not documented. In other words does the final responsibility for checking the policy is as expected lie with the policyholder?
PS. Aviva define a modification as anything not fitted as "standard", with "standard" including any factory fitted options
The modification at issue in this case should thus be listed on that document and as Aviva are contesting the assertion that the modification was declared then it presumably is not listed. As I see it there are only two possible scenarios here. Either the modification was listed in earlier years and disappeared at a subsequent renewal and the OP failed to check the documents thoroughly enough at that renewal to notice, or it was never listed from the outset and the OP failed to check the policy documents thoroughly enough when he first took out the policy. It seems to me therefore that the matter hinges on whether it is reasonable for the insurer to honour something the policy holder claims to have declared but which said policy holder failed to notice was not documented. In other words does the final responsibility for checking the policy is as expected lie with the policyholder?
PS. Aviva define a modification as anything not fitted as "standard", with "standard" including any factory fitted options
Edited by siremoon on Friday 10th May 08:21
From the Aviva app chat box:-
We say a vehicle's modified when it has internal or external alterations that weren't part of the manufacturer's original specification or weren't fitted as an optional extra to the vehicle when it was new.
So could my Ghost immobiliser & dash cam be defined as ‘alterations’? I’d say not but a bit ambiguous imo.
We say a vehicle's modified when it has internal or external alterations that weren't part of the manufacturer's original specification or weren't fitted as an optional extra to the vehicle when it was new.
So could my Ghost immobiliser & dash cam be defined as ‘alterations’? I’d say not but a bit ambiguous imo.
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