Missold broadband?
Discussion
Morning,
Bit of an odd one....
My mother has Sky television at her address, has done for many years. My father died 18 months ago, so everything is now in her name. Chatting to her yesterday, when an advert for broadband comes on the telly, "I've got that she says". Now, I'm a bit surprised by this, as she hasn't got any device that could connect to the internet, and quite frankly, wouldn't know a computer from a toaster. It transpires that she was contacted by a sales agent from the above company around 6 months ago, and agreed to upgrade her Sky package due to a "special offer" for 6 months. Now the special offer is finished, she's paying full whack for broadband and Sports package (which she never watches). Spoke to the company last night and raised my concerns about the issue. Their response is:
1. It was explained over the phone to her
2. A letter was sent to her explaining the above
3. It was also emailed to her non existent email address (which she can't access via her toaster!!)
Probably grasping at straws here, but an oral contract is meaningless (they can't find the recording of the conversation), proof of postage of the T&C's is not proof of delivery. Therefore, how can they state that she has agreed to the above. Difference in price is now £50 a month.
Do I put it down to a lesson learnt or try to fight this?
Sorry for the long post!!
Cheers.
Bit of an odd one....
My mother has Sky television at her address, has done for many years. My father died 18 months ago, so everything is now in her name. Chatting to her yesterday, when an advert for broadband comes on the telly, "I've got that she says". Now, I'm a bit surprised by this, as she hasn't got any device that could connect to the internet, and quite frankly, wouldn't know a computer from a toaster. It transpires that she was contacted by a sales agent from the above company around 6 months ago, and agreed to upgrade her Sky package due to a "special offer" for 6 months. Now the special offer is finished, she's paying full whack for broadband and Sports package (which she never watches). Spoke to the company last night and raised my concerns about the issue. Their response is:
1. It was explained over the phone to her
2. A letter was sent to her explaining the above
3. It was also emailed to her non existent email address (which she can't access via her toaster!!)
Probably grasping at straws here, but an oral contract is meaningless (they can't find the recording of the conversation), proof of postage of the T&C's is not proof of delivery. Therefore, how can they state that she has agreed to the above. Difference in price is now £50 a month.
Do I put it down to a lesson learnt or try to fight this?
Sorry for the long post!!
Cheers.
chili1 said:
Do I put it down to a lesson learnt or try to fight this?
It's a lesson learnt, and it's a very common and frequent occurrence with older parents. There's nothing you can do to stop them buying whatever they want to buy, whether they fully grasp whether they need it or not. And, unless and until you get PoA in place, there's nothing you can do to cancel it on their behalf.Given that the Sky box itself will connect to Broadband for a much wider range of On Demand, the fact she has no computer wouldn't be relevant to her having broadband anyway. That may be how she was persuaded to sign up, whether or not she has then set up the box.
Have you checked whether the router is set up and connected to the Sky box?
Have you checked whether the router is set up and connected to the Sky box?
Thanks for the replies, thought as much.
Since my father died she has become very trusting of other people. Bloke knocked her door last week offering to pressure wash, sand and seal her block paving driveway. All for the very reasonable price of £1k!. She was going to have this work done until I pointed out I'd done it a couple of months earlier. Took me a day and cost less than £50 in materials.
Since my father died she has become very trusting of other people. Bloke knocked her door last week offering to pressure wash, sand and seal her block paving driveway. All for the very reasonable price of £1k!. She was going to have this work done until I pointed out I'd done it a couple of months earlier. Took me a day and cost less than £50 in materials.
TooMany2cvs said:
It's a lesson learnt, and it's a very common and frequent occurrence with older parents. There's nothing you can do to stop them buying whatever they want to buy, whether they fully grasp whether they need it or not. And, unless and until you get PoA in place, there's nothing you can do to cancel it on their behalf.
Surely worth a complaint to Ofcom to have it on record. http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/complain/phone-and-b...It's worth pursuing in my view, I had similar with my stepdad a few years back and had a positive outcome:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=888...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=888...
I'd be requesting a call log, requesting a refund of the non-required/used services, and cancelling the non-needed services immediately. If its not forthcoming I'd be calling the bank and pursuing a charge-back under the direct debit guarantee after warning them yourself that this would be happening on the phone.
They will kick-up a fuss, you just request the call logs again....
Eventually you'll either get a call form a senior manager apologising or they'll give up.
I had to do similar for EE a few months ago for a non-needed contract which the shop signed my GF up for, the Bank refunded everything....I took my time working out how much they should have charged before deducting my fuel costs at 45ppm (they sent us to the store on a wild goose chase) and interest at 8% APR on the additional funds they had been holding.
When I told them they weren't too happy but the DD reclaim seems to engage a senior management team, I had a call from a very apologetic manager a week after apologising for the whole thing...
They will kick-up a fuss, you just request the call logs again....
Eventually you'll either get a call form a senior manager apologising or they'll give up.
I had to do similar for EE a few months ago for a non-needed contract which the shop signed my GF up for, the Bank refunded everything....I took my time working out how much they should have charged before deducting my fuel costs at 45ppm (they sent us to the store on a wild goose chase) and interest at 8% APR on the additional funds they had been holding.
When I told them they weren't too happy but the DD reclaim seems to engage a senior management team, I had a call from a very apologetic manager a week after apologising for the whole thing...
Looking at this from the other side - the salesman has no way of knowing that your mum doesn't have a way of using broadband. They sent her a router and have paid for her to have the connection, whether she used it or not.
So salesman offers her it and she says yes, also to the sports, what exactly have Sky done wrong here? At best I'd hope for a refund out of goodwill, but complaining to ofcom? On what basis?
So salesman offers her it and she says yes, also to the sports, what exactly have Sky done wrong here? At best I'd hope for a refund out of goodwill, but complaining to ofcom? On what basis?
_dobbo_ said:
Looking at this from the other side - the salesman has no way of knowing that your mum doesn't have a way of using broadband. They sent her a router and have paid for her to have the connection, whether she used it or not.
So salesman offers her it and she says yes, also to the sports, what exactly have Sky done wrong here? At best I'd hope for a refund out of goodwill, but complaining to ofcom? On what basis?
I think you're being generous to the sales person here. So salesman offers her it and she says yes, also to the sports, what exactly have Sky done wrong here? At best I'd hope for a refund out of goodwill, but complaining to ofcom? On what basis?
I would ask them to reduce the DD immediately and discuss a refund. In reality what are they going to do, take her to court? that would be a massive PR success wouldn't it! Even then they would lose any business going forward. If she ended up with a CCJ and/or a poor credit rating is that going to disaster going forward?
My gut feel is that they will back down just to keep her continued custom and to avoid any negative publicity.
Its important you do this the right way so that OFCOM can back you if needed. Anything you send, send recorded delivery so they cant say they haven't received anything you send. OFCOM wont step in for at least 8 weeks so that the Provider has some chance of sorting it before OFCOM bill them for taking up a case (They have to pay a hefty fee for anything OFCOM related)
Make sure you keep a log of when you call/write to Sky
She will need to make a formal complaint to Sky (Or she will need to inform you are authorised to speak on her behalf)
http://www.sky.com/help/articles/how-to-make-a-com...
In your complaint you need to explain why you feel she was mis-sold. Request a Data Access request for any information they hold regarding your Mother. Specifically you want a transcript of the call or the actual recording itself. If they cant supply that how can they prove that anything was sold never mind mis-sold?
If 8 weeks passes with no resolution next stage.
If you cant agree a suitable outcome or they refuse to do anything else on the matter, you will be in Deadlock. You should ask them at this point to confirm they are doing nothing further via a deadlock letter.
http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/services-and-billing/...
OFCOM then attempts resolution for you.
Its a lengthy process and it wont always end up how you want it to however.
More Info here
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/broadband/consumer...
Make sure you keep a log of when you call/write to Sky
She will need to make a formal complaint to Sky (Or she will need to inform you are authorised to speak on her behalf)
http://www.sky.com/help/articles/how-to-make-a-com...
In your complaint you need to explain why you feel she was mis-sold. Request a Data Access request for any information they hold regarding your Mother. Specifically you want a transcript of the call or the actual recording itself. If they cant supply that how can they prove that anything was sold never mind mis-sold?
If 8 weeks passes with no resolution next stage.
If you cant agree a suitable outcome or they refuse to do anything else on the matter, you will be in Deadlock. You should ask them at this point to confirm they are doing nothing further via a deadlock letter.
http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/services-and-billing/...
OFCOM then attempts resolution for you.
Its a lengthy process and it wont always end up how you want it to however.
More Info here
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/broadband/consumer...
Devil2575 said:
I think you're being generous to the sales person here.
I probably am, I just wasn't ready to jump on the "complain to ofcom" bandwagon yet.So question, Sky find the recording of the call - the discussion is this simple:
SALES GUY: Would you like Sky broadband, free for 6 months then £10 a month from that point onwards? I can give you sports on the same deal, £22 a month after the free period.
MUM: Um, yes, that sounds good.
Mis-sold? Complaint to ofcom?
Thanks for all the comments, it's certainly a tricky one. I've logged a complaint form with Sky and a manager is due to call me tonight.
The main issue is, I don't know what was said to my mother during this conversation. They cannot find the recording of the conversation, so how do I know what they told her? Lower price for six months and then full price.....lower price for six months and then full price, but don't worry, we'll have another deal going by then.... or something else? She wasn't aware that it was a new contract, she thought it was for six months and would then revert to her old rate, rather than a rate that is £50 a month higher.
She didn't know what broadband was, was this explained to her? Was she asked if she used the internet, would she be interested in On Demand? Did they ask if she had a current supplier?
She thought broadband was a set of TV channels similar to the Entertainment package (as daft as that sounds).
The main issue is, I don't know what was said to my mother during this conversation. They cannot find the recording of the conversation, so how do I know what they told her? Lower price for six months and then full price.....lower price for six months and then full price, but don't worry, we'll have another deal going by then.... or something else? She wasn't aware that it was a new contract, she thought it was for six months and would then revert to her old rate, rather than a rate that is £50 a month higher.
She didn't know what broadband was, was this explained to her? Was she asked if she used the internet, would she be interested in On Demand? Did they ask if she had a current supplier?
She thought broadband was a set of TV channels similar to the Entertainment package (as daft as that sounds).
I feel your pain. My father in law sent £700 to someone via Western Union because they found "5000 viruses" on his computer.
He probably won't get that money back. If your mum was stitched up then that's crap and she should get her money back - I just wasn't quite ready to go straight to her having been mis-sold. Could any salesperson be reasonably expected to know that someone didn't know what broadband was?
He probably won't get that money back. If your mum was stitched up then that's crap and she should get her money back - I just wasn't quite ready to go straight to her having been mis-sold. Could any salesperson be reasonably expected to know that someone didn't know what broadband was?
chili1 said:
Thanks for all the comments, it's certainly a tricky one. I've logged a complaint form with Sky and a manager is due to call me tonight.
The main issue is, I don't know what was said to my mother during this conversation. They cannot find the recording of the conversation, so how do I know what they told her? Lower price for six months and then full price.....lower price for six months and then full price, but don't worry, we'll have another deal going by then.... or something else? She wasn't aware that it was a new contract, she thought it was for six months and would then revert to her old rate, rather than a rate that is £50 a month higher.
She didn't know what broadband was, was this explained to her? Was she asked if she used the internet, would she be interested in On Demand? Did they ask if she had a current supplier?
She thought broadband was a set of TV channels similar to the Entertainment package (as daft as that sounds).
Surely the onus is on them to provide proof of the agreement to the contract. I suspect if you push the angle that there is no proof and hence no contract, it'll 'turn up' pretty quickly. Then you can go from there.The main issue is, I don't know what was said to my mother during this conversation. They cannot find the recording of the conversation, so how do I know what they told her? Lower price for six months and then full price.....lower price for six months and then full price, but don't worry, we'll have another deal going by then.... or something else? She wasn't aware that it was a new contract, she thought it was for six months and would then revert to her old rate, rather than a rate that is £50 a month higher.
She didn't know what broadband was, was this explained to her? Was she asked if she used the internet, would she be interested in On Demand? Did they ask if she had a current supplier?
She thought broadband was a set of TV channels similar to the Entertainment package (as daft as that sounds).
I was fortunate in my stepdad's case, the company supplied the audio and hung themselves by their own petard - the recording is on Youtube in the thread I posted a link to earlier. Orange stepped in and sorted it out (my family are still with them - albeit now as EE - six years later as a result).
my mother did something similar - signed up to a sky package with broadband that wasn't suitable to her needs - no computer or internet devices in the household, my sister got on to sky , blasted them and they refunded my mum and put her on a more suitable deal to her needs.
go in with the argument that she was unable to make a proper decision (oap) and obviously she made the wrong one due to the hard sales talk , they should sort it out to your requirement without too much argument once the facts are explained.
good luck
go in with the argument that she was unable to make a proper decision (oap) and obviously she made the wrong one due to the hard sales talk , they should sort it out to your requirement without too much argument once the facts are explained.
good luck
If it helps I spoke to the call centre (abroad) about a technical problem I had with our dish and at the end of the call was offered Sky Go Extra free for 3 months as a gesture for my dish malfunction which I agreed to. Naturally a letter appeared a few days later outlining how to access the service which was pretty bloody obvious so I immediately binned it without looking at the small print.
Guess what - after just under 3 months I called to cancel the Go Extra to be told that I had entered into a contract with a notice period for cancellation and they would be enforcing this with me having to now pay for it whilst I saw out my notice.
A swift call to cancellations threatening to bin the whole shooting match and go berserk on social media saw it dropped.
So my advice would be to fight it
Good luck
Guess what - after just under 3 months I called to cancel the Go Extra to be told that I had entered into a contract with a notice period for cancellation and they would be enforcing this with me having to now pay for it whilst I saw out my notice.
A swift call to cancellations threatening to bin the whole shooting match and go berserk on social media saw it dropped.
So my advice would be to fight it
Good luck
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