Trashed my engine...
Discussion
Oh dear, perfect timing. Driving back to my parents for Christmas, I noticed the oil temperature rising rapidly when I stretched the legs on my '86. Anyway, ending up doing 50mph along the M11 to get the car home, stopped and on lifting the bonnet heard (albeit not as loud as I've heard in other knackered motors) the good old rattling bag of spanners sound when revving the engine.
Long and short of it - has anyone done anything similar - I'm wondering about:
Repairing the old with a new crank bearings etc. (It's done 120k though - so really it could do with lots of new shiny parts)
Repairing old but converting it to a 383 (400 crank, new rods/pistons etc.)
Chucking in a Goodwrench engine (the stock replacements seem to have a lower spec though - 8.5:1 comp vs 9 - 9.5:1 for an 86 L98)
Answers on a postcard please!
Hope everyone is having a smashing Christmas, although not in the literal sense like mine!
Long and short of it - has anyone done anything similar - I'm wondering about:
Repairing the old with a new crank bearings etc. (It's done 120k though - so really it could do with lots of new shiny parts)
Repairing old but converting it to a 383 (400 crank, new rods/pistons etc.)
Chucking in a Goodwrench engine (the stock replacements seem to have a lower spec though - 8.5:1 comp vs 9 - 9.5:1 for an 86 L98)
Answers on a postcard please!
Hope everyone is having a smashing Christmas, although not in the literal sense like mine!
If it's just the shells (which are quite cheap to replace) you MUST get the crank reground by a competent machine shop and get the appropriate bearings according to the crank gring (.010, 0.30, whatever).
120k isn't much for a well maintained 350, though if you're looking for an upgrade excuse...
Options are: 1) rebuild the engine yourself which is quite low cost but a good alternative for the mechanically competent (as I hear you are, Francis).
2) Get someone to rebuild it - not so cheap and you can take a real chance if you get a monkey moo mechanic.
3) Probably for similar money (or not much more than) the second option get a ready built motor from GM or a supplier like Summit. Ony prob with more HP is you may find other vette weak points like the 700R4 autobox.
Good thing is the old 350 is relatively cheap to repair. A mate of mine spent nearly 7 grand on what basically amounte to a strip down and set of piston tings on a Ferrari 355...
Can't believe I'm reading Pistonheads on Christmas day. That's what happens when the family are watching 3 hours of soaps...
120k isn't much for a well maintained 350, though if you're looking for an upgrade excuse...
Options are: 1) rebuild the engine yourself which is quite low cost but a good alternative for the mechanically competent (as I hear you are, Francis).
2) Get someone to rebuild it - not so cheap and you can take a real chance if you get a monkey moo mechanic.
3) Probably for similar money (or not much more than) the second option get a ready built motor from GM or a supplier like Summit. Ony prob with more HP is you may find other vette weak points like the 700R4 autobox.
Good thing is the old 350 is relatively cheap to repair. A mate of mine spent nearly 7 grand on what basically amounte to a strip down and set of piston tings on a Ferrari 355...
Can't believe I'm reading Pistonheads on Christmas day. That's what happens when the family are watching 3 hours of soaps...
Hey Malc, you should see the job I made of doing the inlet manifold gaskets! Was a pain in the behind just as you said... sadly then this goes and happens!
As for Christmas day, yes, I can understand and do feel you are justified in finding Pistonheads is a much better place to be than watching our licence fee funded repeats....
...don't you think you should stop being selfish though and introduce the rest of your family to Pistonheads too? I'm sure they'd enjoy it more than hour long Eastenders/Vicar of Dribley whatever.
As for Christmas day, yes, I can understand and do feel you are justified in finding Pistonheads is a much better place to be than watching our licence fee funded repeats....
...don't you think you should stop being selfish though and introduce the rest of your family to Pistonheads too? I'm sure they'd enjoy it more than hour long Eastenders/Vicar of Dribley whatever.
Sorry to hear you trashed your motor......try Real Steel at Uxbridge for a new one, or as the $ vs £ is so good at the moment try getting one in the states and then get Steve Borland (Movin Parts) to bring it over for you.
You can get a seriously nice upgraded motor at the moment for stupidly cheap money at the moment.
You can get a seriously nice upgraded motor at the moment for stupidly cheap money at the moment.
Cheers Nige, the call of a 383 seems to be getting louder after the initial shock of no Vette driving for at least a couple of months... They've given some good prices on the bits too. Bloke there knows seemedly everything small block off the top of his head.
And on the subject of handy people - thanks to a guy from the AA called Adrian who recovered the Vette today (from folks house to Leicestershire) - I was slightly concerned the car would get battered in some way with its first (in four and a half years) stint being 'relayed' The nice AA people didn't send a little man with a van or anything like that, sent a low loader no questions asked. So phase one of the 'get the C4 working again' plan went well - thanks AA!
And on the subject of handy people - thanks to a guy from the AA called Adrian who recovered the Vette today (from folks house to Leicestershire) - I was slightly concerned the car would get battered in some way with its first (in four and a half years) stint being 'relayed' The nice AA people didn't send a little man with a van or anything like that, sent a low loader no questions asked. So phase one of the 'get the C4 working again' plan went well - thanks AA!
[quote]Cheers Nige, the call of a 383 seems to be getting louder
Fran call me if you are thinking of looking States-side. I may be biased but I should very seriously look if I were you. The dollar is so weak and the costs and timescales of getting a crate motor back here are both less than you might imagine
Steve
Fran call me if you are thinking of looking States-side. I may be biased but I should very seriously look if I were you. The dollar is so weak and the costs and timescales of getting a crate motor back here are both less than you might imagine
Steve
I went the crate motor route from The Engine Factory (www.enginefactory.com) and used Steve to import it.
All very smooth and not that expensive and that was with the doller at 1.8!!
G
All very smooth and not that expensive and that was with the doller at 1.8!!
G
Sounds like a good idea - er, but won't that stick through the bonnet...
Steve - thanks for the advice on shipping - in truth I've not started the job yet, but will likely make use of your services once I've really planned the way forward on this. Think I'll do at least the 368 conversion (it's not that much more expensive), but for all the bits I want I reckon about £4k. Does anyone here have any experience with TPIS stuff? I'm mostly interested in their ZZ9 cam and mini-ram setup.
Steve - thanks for the advice on shipping - in truth I've not started the job yet, but will likely make use of your services once I've really planned the way forward on this. Think I'll do at least the 368 conversion (it's not that much more expensive), but for all the bits I want I reckon about £4k. Does anyone here have any experience with TPIS stuff? I'm mostly interested in their ZZ9 cam and mini-ram setup.
If you do go the crate motor route then I'd have a good look at the alternatives (eg 406 block, 383 etc, etc, etc). I'd want one with 4 bolt mains as they are stronger (nothing wrong with the 2 bolt mains, until you reach a certain power output level). As said, with the exchange rate as it is, there's some real bargains to be had (hope they hurry up with my darn heads before it crashes!). You should be able to get one for a good price as you've already got all the ancilliaries so it'd be a waste to buy something like a ZZ4 where you're paying for the intake etc. If you've got good heads on yours then you could buy a short block & transfer all your bits over to it.
I'd start pulling things apart 1st just to see what the problem is, but if you find a pile of metal filings in the oil then just treat it as junk (I've rebuilt an engine that pumped filings around & the cost of it all was shocking. Never again!). Sometimes the most horrendous noises can work out to be a cheap & simple fix. An example of this is an engine that was making awful knocking & rumbling sounds from the bottom end & vibrating really badly. Several garages & mechanics advised the owner to buy a new engine as it "was knackered (intake of breath through teeth while slowly shaking head & looking mournfull)". I took it apart & found that one of the main bearings (a ball race) had failed as the cage holding the balls in place had separated, allowing the balls to randomly position themselves in the bearing track. One moment they were fairly evenly spaced & all was well, next they were all bunched up together, allowing the crank to flap about. The engine was fixed for the cost of a new bearing (about £20), gaskets, oil seals & a few beers for me. A lot better than the 4 figure sums the owner was being quoted (but it did sound terminal!). So, check it out before anything else as it may not be as bad as it sounds (unless you're just looking for an excuse to drop a crate 502ci in there
).
I wouldn't worry about the trans if you go for something sensible (> 500hp!) as they can be built to handle a lot more power. The parts are sold by specialists in the US & a trans expert here could fit them, if needed. The early 700's were a lot weaker than the later ones (post '87????) & upgrades are apparently easy for people that understand these things (auto boxes are black magic as far as I'm concerned).
I'd start pulling things apart 1st just to see what the problem is, but if you find a pile of metal filings in the oil then just treat it as junk (I've rebuilt an engine that pumped filings around & the cost of it all was shocking. Never again!). Sometimes the most horrendous noises can work out to be a cheap & simple fix. An example of this is an engine that was making awful knocking & rumbling sounds from the bottom end & vibrating really badly. Several garages & mechanics advised the owner to buy a new engine as it "was knackered (intake of breath through teeth while slowly shaking head & looking mournfull)". I took it apart & found that one of the main bearings (a ball race) had failed as the cage holding the balls in place had separated, allowing the balls to randomly position themselves in the bearing track. One moment they were fairly evenly spaced & all was well, next they were all bunched up together, allowing the crank to flap about. The engine was fixed for the cost of a new bearing (about £20), gaskets, oil seals & a few beers for me. A lot better than the 4 figure sums the owner was being quoted (but it did sound terminal!). So, check it out before anything else as it may not be as bad as it sounds (unless you're just looking for an excuse to drop a crate 502ci in there
). I wouldn't worry about the trans if you go for something sensible (> 500hp!) as they can be built to handle a lot more power. The parts are sold by specialists in the US & a trans expert here could fit them, if needed. The early 700's were a lot weaker than the later ones (post '87????) & upgrades are apparently easy for people that understand these things (auto boxes are black magic as far as I'm concerned).
Oh bum! I've got an '86 so likely have the special weak trans!
Know what you mean about ballraces and cage failures - must have been a funny old engine though - not many make use of 'roller cranks' (Honda S800 is about the only stock equipped motor I can think of)
I had a lot of fun with an MX6 engine - I threw a rod (ironically, I'd just pulled in behind a C3 on the M11 at 65mph when it went...) and the carnage was unbelievable. The only salvagable parts from that engine were the cams and the water pump, the rest was like a bomb had gone off. Mind you there was a quarter of an inch wide crack in the block going from the sump face all the way to the bottom of one of the heads... Anyway, to the point, I had to resuse the inlet manifolds, they are like a maze on those (variable induction) and there were shards of piston and cylinder head all the way through (i'm still amazed at how all these fragments got blown back into there). On the Vette I've still got great oil pressure (if it dropped 5psi, that was it) and given the high temp of the oil, I wouldn't be surprised if the pressure drop was more down to that.
Thanks for the advice - has anyone seen a big block C4 by the way? I doubt I'd look at this as an option but it is a curiousity!
Know what you mean about ballraces and cage failures - must have been a funny old engine though - not many make use of 'roller cranks' (Honda S800 is about the only stock equipped motor I can think of)
I had a lot of fun with an MX6 engine - I threw a rod (ironically, I'd just pulled in behind a C3 on the M11 at 65mph when it went...) and the carnage was unbelievable. The only salvagable parts from that engine were the cams and the water pump, the rest was like a bomb had gone off. Mind you there was a quarter of an inch wide crack in the block going from the sump face all the way to the bottom of one of the heads... Anyway, to the point, I had to resuse the inlet manifolds, they are like a maze on those (variable induction) and there were shards of piston and cylinder head all the way through (i'm still amazed at how all these fragments got blown back into there). On the Vette I've still got great oil pressure (if it dropped 5psi, that was it) and given the high temp of the oil, I wouldn't be surprised if the pressure drop was more down to that.
Thanks for the advice - has anyone seen a big block C4 by the way? I doubt I'd look at this as an option but it is a curiousity!
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