C6 Z06 vs. TVR Sagaris

[charltm]

Much as I love the way the new AM V8 Vantage looks and like the sound of the way it drives, I've pretty well eliminated it, its cost and the long wait from my thinking and have narrowed down my choice of replacements for the Tuscan to the following. I would appreciate all of your thoughts on the choice between:

1. Sagaris, probably with the CRG
or
2. Corvette C6 Z06

Now I know I've come to a forum where I shouldn't expect impartiality, but I'm sure that UK owners of Corvettes are likely at least to be open-minded!

I've driven the Sagaris but not the C6 Z06. Standard C6 yes.

The Sagaris was simply superb around the twisties near Racing Green TVR (Surrey), so much so that I was confident taking several of the bends 10-15mph faster than in the Tuscan. That amazed me. It did, however, bottom out on the road a lot. The luggage space is smaller in the Sagaris (Tuscan's is about right for me). By recent accounts, Sagaris' Vmax seems to be severely limited by Gurney flap etc, to some 20mph below the advertised 195mph. And, despite "improvements" and the new 3 year warranty, I must admit I have lingering doubts about reliability etc, especially after recent annoying experiences with the Tuscan... But it is a TVR... and it's beautiful...

As for the Corvette, the new Z06 sounds like it may be even quicker than the Sagaris, at least in a straight line: GM says 3.7s for 0-60 but Motor Trend tested it at 3.5 secs; 0-100 in 7.7s; 1/4 mile in 11.5s at 127mph. 7:43 round the 'ring (admittedly with Jan Magnussen driving). Don't know how the handling compares yet but I dare say can't possibly be as good as the Sagaris (though Autocar think it's wonderful). More luggage space. More creature comforts. Probably more reliable. But a tad less sexy. And LHD only (a right pain on 'A' and 'B' roads I expect... though arguably helpful on the motorway these days! sssh).

So, what do you think?

Has anyone seen comparable stats for the two cars? For the Sagaris, I've seen 0-60 (3.7s) and 0-100 (8.1s); but 1/4 mile isn't a normal test in the UK and I'm not aware of any hot lap of the 'ring? I suppose a Stig lap in the Z06 would be helpful too, though I'm surprised the Sagaris didn't have A LOT more than 0.2 secs over the Tuscan on that track.

And can those of you with experience of owning and driving a LHD performance car on UK roads tell me: is it a pain in the neck?

Whichever you prefer, I'd be VERY interested in all your views, and very grateful.

Matt

[vetteheadracer]

First the bad news C6 Z06 won't be available until December and even then unless you have put down a deposit don't expect to see one any time soon here in the UK. That is unless you want to go the "grey import" route.
Stratsone in London told me back in June that the C6 Z06 will be less than £60K on the road from them, if this is true then it's a no brainer as they offr a 3 year warranty whereas a grey import will give you no warranty and I calculated the cheapest I could get one on the road in the UK having bought the car, imported it, SVA's it etc. was £53,000.
I have a C5 Z06 and the performance, handling, practicality of daily driving (apart from LHD) is fantastic. The LHD thing is only a p.i.t.a. with car park, toll barriers etc.
Heard some scary reports about the Sagaris regarding flying bonnets!
I have seen the C6 Z06 and it is a more muscular car than the standard C6 with flared arches, brake ducts and much bigger tires. It is very quiet at idle but is very much louder at revs due to a valve in the exhaust system. I read a few reviews about the C6 Z06 in the american motor press and they are all raving about it.

If you are serious about buying a C6 Z06 I could get in contact with Stratstone and arrange to go on their test drive list.

[c4koh]

charltm said:

And can those of you with experience of owning and driving a LHD performance car on UK roads tell me: is it a pain in the neck?

No, LHD is no problem at all, period. You learn to adjust your driving to it, that's all. For dual-carriageways and the like, it's actually easier to look over your shoulder when overtaking without having a pillar in your blindspot...

But for overtaking, which I guess is your concern, on A/B roads.

For straights, overtaking obviously isn't a problem.

For longish bends (i.e. suitable for overtaking), then for right-handers, you're better off (i.e. see more) from the LHD driving position. For left-handers, you'll be worse off than in a RHD car, but the trick is just to move out a little bit to see...

Anyway, I've found with my current and previous 'vettes, 300hp and 375hp is more than enough grunt to just go around regardless...
So 500hp will do that even better :-)

[anonymous-user]

A TVR is likely to be quicker than an equivalent price (new) Corvette due to power to weight ratio. It's pretty academic on the road because both are massively powerful. So what does Corvette have that a TVR probably doesn't?

Reliability
L-o-n-g service interval
Physical crash protection
ABS
Traction control / active handling
Head up display
etc

LHD is loved by some but not by me. However, you get used to it very quickly and with that much power overtaking isn't an issue when the opportunity arises.

One of the best things about Corvette in UK is the combination of specialist market rarity with mass production design, build and reliability. Go for it!

[charltm]

vetteheadracer said:

First the bad news C6 Z06 won't be available until December and even then unless you have put down a deposit don't expect to see one any time soon here in the UK. That is unless you want to go the "grey import" route. Stratsone in London told me back in June that the C6 Z06 will be less than £60K on the road from them, if this is true then it's a no brainer as they offr a 3 year warranty whereas a grey import will give you no warranty and I calculated the cheapest I could get one on the road in the UK having bought the car, imported it, SVA's it etc. was £53,000. I have a C5 Z06 and the performance, handling, practicality of daily driving (apart from LHD) is fantastic. The LHD thing is only a p.i.t.a. with car park, toll barriers etc. Heard some scary reports about the Sagaris regarding flying bonnets! I have seen the C6 Z06 and it is a more muscular car than the standard C6 with flared arches, brake ducts and much bigger tires. It is very quiet at idle but is very much louder at revs due to a valve in the exhaust system. I read a few reviews about the C6 Z06 in the american motor press and they are all raving about it. If you are serious about buying a C6 Z06 I could get in contact with Stratstone and arrange to go on their test drive list.

The good news is I've done that already.

Apparently it is possible to get a warranty for a grey import but it's not a manufacturer's one so I don't know what that's worth.

As for dates, the first C6 Z06s have just been delivered in the US; the first few in the UK will be in November, then another small batch in March.

Now, do you REALLY not find LHD a p.i.t.a on 'A' and 'B' roads, e.g. for overtaking visibility?

[charltm]

5USA said:

A TVR is likely to be quicker than an equivalent price (new) Corvette due to power to weight ratio. It's pretty academic on the road because both are massively powerful. So what does Corvette have that a TVR probably doesn't? Reliability L-o-n-g service interval Physical crash protection ABS Traction control / active handling Head up display etc LHD is loved by some but not by me. However, you get used to it very quickly and with that much power overtaking isn't an issue when the opportunity arises. One of the best things about Corvette in UK is the combination of specialist market rarity with mass production design, build and reliability. Go for it!

True.

You can add to the list "air con that works" too.

Does the LHD aspect not hit residuals hard?

[c4koh]

charltm said:

Does the LHD aspect not hit residuals hard?

It would if we were talking about a LHD Peugeot.

But the Corvette is only ever LHD (some converted to RHD, but really it's only LHD).

As a result, the LHD-ness of it is moot as there's no choice with a Corvette. But Corvettes in general hold their value very well indeed; take for example 1997 C5s - these would have been £33K or so at the time, and are probably worth no less than £15-17K... not many 8 year old cars worth 45-50% of its value.

[charltm]

that's helpful and reassuring... though I must admit I thought I had seen some 01 ones for that sort of money

[kenski]

Never found LHD a problem on A-roads in a C5 Z06... the only problems I've had have been in London when you're first in line behind a bus. Nigh on impossible to see around and the folks behind you in the queue get peed off (and even honk - how rude!)

I'd agree with VHR that if you're getting a new C6 Z06, definitely MAKE SURE you have a warranty, preferably direct with Chevy. All new cars suffer from some minor niggles (and I'm sure the first run of a new production vehicle will be worse). Even if it's just an annoying rattle behind the dash (had one - fixed at no cost under warranty) you can get it fixed. The flip side is that for the next few years it may be easier to find a local TVR dealer to fix minor warranty issues.

-kenski

[vetteheadracer]

kenski said:

Never found LHD a problem on A-roads in a C5 Z06... the only problems I've had have been in London when you're first in line behind a bus. Nigh on impossible to see around and the folks behind you in the queue get peed off (and even honk - how rude!) I'd agree with VHR that if you're getting a new C6 Z06, definitely MAKE SURE you have a warranty, preferably direct with Chevy. All new cars suffer from some minor niggles (and I'm sure the first run of a new production vehicle will be worse). Even if it's just an annoying rattle behind the dash (had one - fixed at no cost under warranty) you can get it fixed. The flip side is that for the next few years it may be easier to find a local TVR dealer to fix minor warranty issues. -kenski

I wouldn't want a brand new C6 Z06 with a hand built engine with no warranty in the UK. I grey imported my C5 Z06 because GM didn't sell the Z06 in Europe at all.
I had one minor electrical problem that was fixed by Bauer Millett in Manchester but getting the car taken there and back plus the cost of the fix left me £1000 out of pocket which GM Europe refused to refund eventhough it was fixed as a warranty problem after about 8 months of ownership.

[TUS 373]

As a non-Corvette owner (but potential) and 8 years' TVR ownership experience under my belt I would say,....get the Vette.

I would also avoid the Manchester dealer of American cars (where I purchased a TVR from). Good service department, but not so hot on the after sales support, especially when they 'forgot' my old Chimaera had had a bit of a knock (that they fixed!) when I drew the paint overspray to their attention AFTER I had bought it.

[Gixer]

charltm said:

Does the LHD aspect not hit residuals hard?

I prefer LHD to right everytime but would be the first to admit if used as an everyday car it would be a pita - car parks etc

Remember, with the vette being LHD you will have a bigger market (Europe) when it comes to selling the car.

[charltm]

must admit I wouldn't know what medium to use on the continent to sell one

>> Edited by charltm on Monday 26th September 18:06

[anonymous-user]

Having seen a post on General Gassing that you need to set aside £3,000 p.a. running cost on a Cerbera you can compare running costs on a Corvette. I bought my C5 six and a half years ago. It's had a dealer service every couple of years with DIY oil changes in between. Total maintenance to date are £1,000 plus £850 for a set of 4 tyres. That's not bad.

For "total cost of ownership" the Vette stacks up well.

But there are lots of aftermarket goodies available from sweetie shops like Ecklers and MidAmerica if you feel like splashing some cash!

[LuS1fer]

I have a C5 Z06.

I actually prefer the look of the TVR Sagaris and indeed posted pics of it on Corvette Forum as an example of what the blando C6 SHOULD have looked like - aggression, aggression and aggression.

Having said that, the details on the Sagaris are overblown and fussy, I have severe doubts as to it's longevity and build quality and I would never buy a TVR until someone else has finished developing it. I think most testers love the TVR but mark it down as an everyday proposition.

This is where the Z06 is light years ahead of TVR. It's a car manufactured by one of the world's biggest car makers and has had to pass every safety and emissions test known to man and still dollop out 505bhp. It won't break and will be worth far more than the TVR a few years down the line. All Corvettes become classics eventually.

So TVR heart and open wallet, Z06 heart and practicality.

[charltm]

Thanks.

I'm not so sure about that last point.

I can see how all of the first three corporeal iterations of the Corvette become classics, because of their beautiful shapes as well as how they drive.

But C4 onwards, the looks are pretty bland. I can see how a 'special' like the Z06 may become a classic, but I have my doubts about the standard C4, C5 and C6. Or am I wrong?

[LuS1fer]

charltm said:

Thanks. I'm not so sure about that last point. I can see how all of the first three corporeal iterations of the Corvette become classics, because of their beautiful shapes as well as how they drive. But C4 onwards, the looks are pretty bland. I can see how a 'special' like the Z06 may become a classic, but I have my doubts about the standard C4, C5 and C6. Or am I wrong?

You're only wrong because the Corvette is such a long-lived beast. There is a whole industry devoted to it's preservation, conservation and improvement so because of that, they age well, all parts always available whilst others fade away. Like anything, if it's old enough and still in good enough condition, it's a classic.

Besides, I loved my C4. Still nothing has ever come close to it in terms of character. I'm not talking ultimate ability - the Vette was never really based on that historically, it's about entertainment. I think the C5 will be a classic because it was so good when it was launched although in the same way as a Supra Twin Turbo for example.

>> Edited by LuS1fer on Tuesday 27th September 22:02

[anonymous-user]

In the nature of things there's nothing so "out of date" as last year's fashions. Many classics (not just cars) only get their classic status when people look back with nostalgia. Cars like E-types and Jensen Interceptors had dropped to virtually scrap metal before prices started to climb. The C4 Corvette was in production for well over a decade and was a huge advance over its predecessor. I'm sure there will come a time when it's seen as a much loved classic and the C5 is likely to follow the same path.

Now then, where did I put those purple crushed-velvet loon pants?

[c4koh]

charltm said:

Thanks. But C4 onwards, the looks are pretty bland. I can see how a 'special' like the Z06 may become a classic, but I have my doubts about the standard C4, C5 and C6. Or am I wrong?

What makes a car "classic" is subjective; a Corvette is always a Corvette, and by that very fact is in its own league really. Turn up to any classic car show in any Corvette and I doubt you'd be turned away - their rarity over here sees to that.

Of course the Z-variants - Z06, ZR1 etc. - by their rarity and increased power will be more desirable, but not necessarily more "classic".

I suppose I own Corvette from it being the car I wanted when I was a lad, and since I was 16 in 1991, the ZR1 was the one I wanted. So I have it now, so that car's classic enough for me.

(Anyway, 7 FIA world records, the only Corvette with 32V and an engine co-developed with Lotus helps too)

You can look at the Corvette from the outside, analytically you might say, and bring up quicker/faster/classic etc.

Or you can catch the Corvette "bug" and love everyone of them, and appreciate that each Corvette is likely owned by somebody who thinks the same way, and be part of the worldwide club of Corvette ownership. If you get so infected then each one's a classic.

[charltm]

true...

...but exactly the same can be said of each and every TVR...

...so it doesn't help with my choice!