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Discussion
The Vette struck me as a glaring omission from their £65k to £80k challenge, but then the steering wheel's the wrong side.......
Porsche 911 - has never really turned me on. My limited experience of Porsches confirms what they said about making very good use of the power helped by having the weight of the engine over the driven wheels. Question is how much of the advantage was down to the £5k optional ceramic brakes. Not many people drive their road cars hard enough to need them.
Aston Vantage - loads of bling and plenty of cruising appeal so perfect for footballers.
BMW M6 - astounding performance but at the end of a day more super-saloon than sports.
C6 Z06 - ?????????????????????????????
Porsche 911 - has never really turned me on. My limited experience of Porsches confirms what they said about making very good use of the power helped by having the weight of the engine over the driven wheels. Question is how much of the advantage was down to the £5k optional ceramic brakes. Not many people drive their road cars hard enough to need them.
Aston Vantage - loads of bling and plenty of cruising appeal so perfect for footballers.
BMW M6 - astounding performance but at the end of a day more super-saloon than sports.
C6 Z06 - ?????????????????????????????
I agree with 5 USA, I watched Top Gear last night and thought Aston, Porsche and BMW all good cars but which car is cheaper than all of them, more powerful than all of them, faster than all of them more practical than all of them....C6 Z06!
Only reason for not including it would be the lack of a Z06 in Europe to use. It's a pity the test wasn't in December.
Only reason for not including it would be the lack of a Z06 in Europe to use. It's a pity the test wasn't in December.
Clarkson's blue Ford GT appeared in the montage though - I assume it's his. Wonder if they nicked it like they nicked his old Merc SL AMG - not that they rehash ideas you understand.
Maybe it's just as well the Z06 wasn't in that test. What if the Porsche had beaten it.......it was obvious that outright horsepower wasn't the panacea.
Maybe it's just as well the Z06 wasn't in that test. What if the Porsche had beaten it.......it was obvious that outright horsepower wasn't the panacea.
Not sure I think the ZO6 is a good comparison to the cars they tested: is the Vette really to be marketed against a Beemer 6 series ? I could be wrong here, but I thought the cars tested either had back seats, or at least a bench masquerading as a back seat ? If so, then that would count the Vette out.
The BMW is just so heavy that all that technology and engine is wasted.
V10, 500bhp etc etc
Even my 12 year old old iron block, pushrod Camaro will out accelerate that thing!
American cars are supposed to be heavy, but at 3300lbs the Camaro is a lightweight compared to the 3800lb BMW.
C6 Z06 kills all 3 of those overpriced barges. Yeah it's got no back seats but nor has the Aston, and you'd have to have no legs to get in the back of the Porsche - the seats they have are just an expensively trimmed parcel shelf. The huge boot in the C6 is far more practical. But practical isn't why you buy any of those cars. The Aston looks the most suave, the Porsche the most boringly familiar and the BMW is just expensive, heavy, fat and ugly. Even the stock C6 Corvette is faster than all of them, more useable, better handling, cheaper, and made by Chevrolet. The Z06 kicks sand in all their faces and still leaves you with a good deal of change in the pocket.
V10, 500bhp etc etc
Even my 12 year old old iron block, pushrod Camaro will out accelerate that thing!
American cars are supposed to be heavy, but at 3300lbs the Camaro is a lightweight compared to the 3800lb BMW.
C6 Z06 kills all 3 of those overpriced barges. Yeah it's got no back seats but nor has the Aston, and you'd have to have no legs to get in the back of the Porsche - the seats they have are just an expensively trimmed parcel shelf. The huge boot in the C6 is far more practical. But practical isn't why you buy any of those cars. The Aston looks the most suave, the Porsche the most boringly familiar and the BMW is just expensive, heavy, fat and ugly. Even the stock C6 Corvette is faster than all of them, more useable, better handling, cheaper, and made by Chevrolet. The Z06 kicks sand in all their faces and still leaves you with a good deal of change in the pocket.
JenkinsComp said:I'm a huge Corvette fan and even though the C6 has excellent road test figures that 911 was mighty quick in wet conditions on real roads.....
Even the stock C6 Corvette is faster than all of them, more useable, better handling, cheaper, and made by Chevrolet.
As you say the Aston V8 Vantage is a 2-seater and the rear of a 911 isn't built for humans. If the TG test had been limited to 4-seaters then the Maserati Coupe is in their price range and has more character than the BMW.
mrvette said:
it just seems that TG dont like cars from the USA every one that they have featured has been totally slated execpt the GT40
Only by Clarkson and he has been just as bigoted about many other cars. Hammond liked the CTS and all Clarkson could pick on was the quality. They didn't mind the CTS-V. They liked the Mustang but didn't put it round the track as I think it was an auto and the points made were actually fair. The Corvette C6 test was a bit unfair but after driving a Mustang, you have to say the Corvette gearbox criticism is merited if hardly fatal to the car as a valid choice. The Vietnamese spring jibes etc are just Clarkson being glib, the car did it's piece on the track and enough information was given to allow people to make their own minds up.
I saw a black C6 convertible yesterday and by god, it was ugly. I think that may be where half the problem lies. I love Corvettes C1 to C5 and I wouldn't buy a C6. I'd buy the new Z06 but in spite of it's looks rather than anything to do with them.
5USA said:
Even the stock C6 Corvette is faster than all of them, more useable, better handling, cheaper, and made by Chevrolet.
As you say the Aston V8 Vantage is a 2-seater and the rear of a 911 isn't built for humans. If the TG test had been limited to 4-seaters then the Maserati Coupe is in their price range and has more character than the BMW.
You make a fair point about the 911 being quick in the wet; however I don't reckon anyone with half a brain actually drives their car on real roads when it is wet anywhere near the cars ultimate potential, and nor should they. People drive according to their own fright limit, usually a fair bit less than the limit of when you start to get scared in the dry. Sure the 911 is quick in the wet, but I reckon the reality is that you can drive pretty much any reasonably quick modern car as fast as you need to in the wet without resorting to a supercar. In a straight line, probably the only time you actually would drive the car as quick as it can go when it is wet, then the C6 would be quicker than a 911. It's interesting to know exactly how quick cars are in the wet of course though, but a test track is the right place for that!
If you are racing on a circuit, then there is no point comparing stock road cars anyway as you'd be using proper tyres and different suspension settings anyway which make a huge difference.
When it is dry however....the C6 stomps the 911. The gearchage does suck though, but easily fixed with a quickshift conversion. I have noticed how popular the Maserati Coupe's are around London, they are pretty common these days around Belgravia / Chelsea / Canary Wharf, though not so ordinary as a 911 which seem to be everywhere. Maser has certainly got more character than the BMW, and they must be pretty decently built these days else they wouldn't be selling so many as they do.
As an ex 911 owner you would be amazed at the progress you can make in a 911 roundabouts and bends cease to exist on a tight road I reckon the Viper or The Vett would be hard pushed to keep up with the 911 unless driven by a twonk, however the 911 makes up for what most lack as a driver. On the track with ceramic brakes it can outbrake everything out of the three I would have chosen the 911 but as a friend said when I had mine your a rich bastard if you drive it slow and a flash bugger if you drive it quick.
viper paul said:
As an ex 911 owner you would be amazed at the progress you can make in a 911 roundabouts and bends cease to exist on a tight road I reckon the Viper or The Vett would be hard pushed to keep up with the 911 unless driven by a twonk, however the 911 makes up for what most lack as a driver. On the track with ceramic brakes it can outbrake everything out of the three I would have chosen the 911 but as a friend said when I had mine your a rich bastard if you drive it slow and a flash bugger if you drive it quick.
Yup it s a real shame that the Porker has never lost its 80's city boy image.Its arguably got more racing heritage than any of the cars we talk about and to my mind has done a half decent job of keeping its looks during its evolution over the last 40 years or so. If I could have afforded a new 911 would I have bought the C5 I wonder. And yes one day I will get my 73 White Carrera RS with red coachwork to sit beside my 73 big block
yellowshark454 said:Let me help you with the answer. First letter "Y". Last letter "S". Middle letter - the most common vowel.
If I could have afforded a new 911 would I have bought the C5 I wonder?
[If anyone's stuck with the answer to this one I'm afraid you'll have to work it out for yourself. 5USA]
Yup, ignore my earlier remark - I din't realise the Aston was a strict 2 seater. My comment about backseats was meant in a "it's probably what Top Gear would say about not having the Vette" soprt of way, if that makes sense. I'm not personally a fan of the C6 looks, but the ZO6 is undeniably an amazing piece of kit. Can't see how the Porsche brakes would have helped it in the wet - none of the cars would be able to use their full braking force - but it's going to be interesting to see the ZO6 pitched against the rivals.
yellowshark454 said:
As an ex 911 owner you would be amazed at the progress you can make in a 911 roundabouts and bends cease to exist on a tight road I reckon the Viper or The Vett would be hard pushed to keep up with the 911 unless driven by a twonk, however the 911 makes up for what most lack as a driver. On the track with ceramic brakes it can outbrake everything out of the three I would have chosen the 911 but as a friend said when I had mine your a rich bastard if you drive it slow and a flash bugger if you drive it quick.
Yup it s a real shame that the Porker has never lost its 80's city boy image.Its arguably got more racing heritage than any of the cars we talk about and to my mind has done a half decent job of keeping its looks during its evolution over the last 40 years or so. If I could have afforded a new 911 would I have bought the C5 I wonder. And yes one day I will get my 73 White Carrera RS with red coachwork to sit beside my 73 big block
'73 Carrera RS, the perfect 911. Dunno why they kept changing it after that, they've never really improved on the shape or the concept. Light(ish), cage, bucket seats, raspy responsive normally asp engine, job done.
I have to beg to differ on the C6 Corvette though, I hired a C5 last year in Florida for a couple of weeks, and tested the C6 around the Ascari circuit for ACW in February this year.
The C5 is a big old motor, huge overhangs, and it felt like it. The C6 is a simply awesome handling car. I race Caterhams and Sylvas which handle better than any road car by miles. After the C5, I was amazed how well the C6 handled, it wasn't as good as a Caterham (nothing is), but it was just so chuckable, so friendly for the driver it gave you confidence to lean on it, to throw it sideways 45 degrees knowing you could get it back. The pro drivers on hand that day (works GM Europe test drivers and GT team who race the C5R) reckoned that the stock C6 lapped the Ascari circuit quicker than the current 911 GT3, and the way they drifted the C6 around the circuit, beautifully balanced, was an experience that made you pinch yourself to remember that you're in an American car. The C6 is smaller than the latest 911, lighter than the lightest new 911 (2900lbs vs 3035lbs) much shorter than the C5, and with it's front/mid engine, rear gearbox, and well set up suspension, it would take a well driven 911 to keep up with even a stock C6 on pretty much any road. I'm not trying to say 911s are rubbish, clearly not, but the C6 is just so much better than any yank before it, you should not judge them in the same way as previous efforts thats all.
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