My Live Axle is dying. :-(
Discussion
The LA on my 92 Crossflow is giving up 
If the car's rocked from side to side there's a horrific clonking coming from the rear off-side wheels, coupled with about an inch of end-float at the hub
(which was, luckily, spotted when parked). Everything else on the hub is sound.
Best suggestion is it's the half shafts that have worn and now have enpough room to slide sidey sidey in the axle casing, and thus need either: a) replacing or b) packing out with shims.
Any other experiences?
If the car's rocked from side to side there's a horrific clonking coming from the rear off-side wheels, coupled with about an inch of end-float at the hub
(which was, luckily, spotted when parked). Everything else on the hub is sound.Best suggestion is it's the half shafts that have worn and now have enpough room to slide sidey sidey in the axle casing, and thus need either: a) replacing or b) packing out with shims.
Any other experiences?
I'm guessing the car has a Morris Ital live axle, as they were used in this period and are succeptible to this problem.
The half shaft is supported by a ball bearing which is a press fit on the shaft and in the axle tube. What has happened is the press fit between the bearing and the shaft has failed, enabling the half shaft/hub flange/brake drum/wheel assembly to slide in and out of its location in the axle tube, usually by about 3/8".
You'll need to replace the shaft and bearing, or shim the gap between the inner race of the bearing and the hub flange to keep the bearing in the correct position on the shaft. (when I did mine it needed about 70 thou of shims, 1" internal and approx 1.5" external, which I turned up in a machine shop).
The half shaft is supported by a ball bearing which is a press fit on the shaft and in the axle tube. What has happened is the press fit between the bearing and the shaft has failed, enabling the half shaft/hub flange/brake drum/wheel assembly to slide in and out of its location in the axle tube, usually by about 3/8".
You'll need to replace the shaft and bearing, or shim the gap between the inner race of the bearing and the hub flange to keep the bearing in the correct position on the shaft. (when I did mine it needed about 70 thou of shims, 1" internal and approx 1.5" external, which I turned up in a machine shop).
I managed it and I'm pretty thick... A few things for your consideration;
-the hub flange needs to come off the shaft. The nut will be tight so remember to crack it loose before you start taking wheels/brakes off! 24mm socket and large breaker bar did it for me.
-the hub flange is also seated on a taper with a keyway. Breaking the taper ain't easy! I used a large hydraulic press and even then it took some pressure and let go with quite a bang.
-the bearing is still quite tight in the axle tube and can take some persuasion to pull out.
I wrote up a bit of a guide on Blatchat some time ago...
http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=182809
http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=188505
http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=203895
(I'm James Russell by the way)
Don't be too put off the Ital axle, I give the impression I do it all the time but the car is used hard and they used to snap quite often too after 10 years of heavy track work! All the Ital axle cars in the club have now been upgraded at great expense with completely new shafts and hubs...
-the hub flange needs to come off the shaft. The nut will be tight so remember to crack it loose before you start taking wheels/brakes off! 24mm socket and large breaker bar did it for me.
-the hub flange is also seated on a taper with a keyway. Breaking the taper ain't easy! I used a large hydraulic press and even then it took some pressure and let go with quite a bang.
-the bearing is still quite tight in the axle tube and can take some persuasion to pull out.
I wrote up a bit of a guide on Blatchat some time ago...
http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=182809
http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=188505
http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=203895
(I'm James Russell by the way)
Don't be too put off the Ital axle, I give the impression I do it all the time but the car is used hard and they used to snap quite often too after 10 years of heavy track work! All the Ital axle cars in the club have now been upgraded at great expense with completely new shafts and hubs...
Hi, formerly classic grad here, shimming and replacing seals is not too big a task, however the Grads club and engineering firm 'rakeway' did come up with a very robust and 100% successful fix for both these issues which is easily fitted at home- it's not cheap though at around a grand. The kit replaces the half shafts, hubs and bearings.
The Rakeway set up looks the dogs but the price!!!
Does mean I can do it all at home without the need for a press or anything.
I've got the 3/8" in out movement as well, a bit puzzled how a 70thou shim stops the shaft moving 3/8"
Looked at the James Whiting disc brake set up but see it's discontinued
Does mean I can do it all at home without the need for a press or anything.
I've got the 3/8" in out movement as well, a bit puzzled how a 70thou shim stops the shaft moving 3/8"
Looked at the James Whiting disc brake set up but see it's discontinued
Emailed Rakeway last night - no reply yet and have been told they're not that good at actually supplying
Emailed Steve Perks in case I decide to go Escort or to see if he does anything for the Ital
Emailed Caterham to see if they do a repair kit. Had an acknowledgement.
Must admit, apart from the fact that I would like to stay original, I quite like the idea of a disc braked Ford English axle but then I need to replace the wheels, front hubs and presumably install a brake balance too. All starting to get expensive.
Emailed Steve Perks in case I decide to go Escort or to see if he does anything for the Ital
Emailed Caterham to see if they do a repair kit. Had an acknowledgement.
Must admit, apart from the fact that I would like to stay original, I quite like the idea of a disc braked Ford English axle but then I need to replace the wheels, front hubs and presumably install a brake balance too. All starting to get expensive.
re: disc brake conversions- you have to ask yourself whether you need more rearward brake balance or are regularly overheating the drums. I've raced an Ital axle car with 98bhp and Yokohama a539s competitively and never ran into a problem.
Just ask the de-dion guys, they all fit uprated front pads and standard rears to try to keep the balance in check.
The Ford axle is heavier. The disc brake conversion adds weight and complexity. Why?
Maybe if you've got sticky tyres and a lot more BHP you'd need it, but otherwise...
Just ask the de-dion guys, they all fit uprated front pads and standard rears to try to keep the balance in check.
The Ford axle is heavier. The disc brake conversion adds weight and complexity. Why?
Maybe if you've got sticky tyres and a lot more BHP you'd need it, but otherwise...
Priced up the two options: rebuild Ital v replace with Ford and Ital wins that battle although highly respected Seven folk suggest the Escort is the way to go for longevity and confidence in the unit.
Rakeway haven't any upgrade kits at the moment however. Not sure at the moment how long it'll be before they make some more so keeping my eyes open for replacement axle either Ital or Escort.
Still have a few other things to attend to on the car before I rip the rear apart but the longer I wait the more impatient I get to get the car back on the road. It's been 14 years since I drove it.
Rakeway haven't any upgrade kits at the moment however. Not sure at the moment how long it'll be before they make some more so keeping my eyes open for replacement axle either Ital or Escort.
Still have a few other things to attend to on the car before I rip the rear apart but the longer I wait the more impatient I get to get the car back on the road. It's been 14 years since I drove it.
When I bought my Classic it had just been fitted with a "new" English axle which Invoices showed had cost the previous owner over £2k. After what seemed not many miles it started to leak. I had new gaskets fitted but the casing ended up with a substantial split which was repaired but re-opened. Additionally, the half-shaft bearing on one side was duff and oil centrifuged out the wheel. To make matters even worse, redundant bump stops had not been removed so the suspension wouldn't function correctly.
I contacted James Whiting who located a good casing and had the thing rebuilt with a new CWP (the old one showed signs of overheating). I've done about 10k miles since with no difficulty (touch wood). The A-Frame bushes- which with the old leaky axle always needed changing - have been fine.
Though supplied and installed by a very well known 7 specialist, my "new" axle cost considerably less than the previous one which was built by a general reconditioning company.
I think pays to deal with people who really know what they are doing.
Best of luck with your project.
I contacted James Whiting who located a good casing and had the thing rebuilt with a new CWP (the old one showed signs of overheating). I've done about 10k miles since with no difficulty (touch wood). The A-Frame bushes- which with the old leaky axle always needed changing - have been fine.
Though supplied and installed by a very well known 7 specialist, my "new" axle cost considerably less than the previous one which was built by a general reconditioning company.
I think pays to deal with people who really know what they are doing.
Best of luck with your project.
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff