Zetec cars - how do they compare?
Discussion
Interested in buying a 7 early next year so naturally I'm doing my home work. I've been lucky enough to have a go in a Ford Sigma based car recently and have heard lots about how well the K series suits the 7's characteristics but what about the Zetec engined cars?
I understand how they've come about and that mainly ill be finding them in 90's based cars that have been converted from a previous k series or Crossflow based spec. Given that the earlier cars are likely to fit my intended budget < 15k when I do get round to buying, are these worth looking at or should I be going for a k series?
The bhp they produce as stock is in itself appealing when compared to the more standard k series cars but are there any other benefits/ downsides to going this route such as reliability, handling differences, etc?
All comments appreciated
Tom
I understand how they've come about and that mainly ill be finding them in 90's based cars that have been converted from a previous k series or Crossflow based spec. Given that the earlier cars are likely to fit my intended budget < 15k when I do get round to buying, are these worth looking at or should I be going for a k series?
The bhp they produce as stock is in itself appealing when compared to the more standard k series cars but are there any other benefits/ downsides to going this route such as reliability, handling differences, etc?
All comments appreciated
Tom
as a non Cat owner i can't comment on the merits of a zetec versus k or other engines in a Caterham, but i can comment from a wider kit car basis.
you asked about handling, can't see why handling would be different wih a zetec over any oher car engine....
kit cars have tended to use engines that came with the donor, hence umpteen pinto based cars, and then the zetec became the staple latterly the dura is starting more and more to be an alternative. So why zetec? well a brand new replacement engine can be had for £750 - ok by the time a fresh install is done it'll be in the 2.5k area with all the bits needed, but then to replace the engine following a disaster it's inexpensive.
Power wise they're tuneable, but out of the box they aren't too bad anyway. with a half decent exhaust in standard from on carbs 160-170bhp, with injection t/bodies ( even bike bodies ) a shade more. throw in a mild set of cams and you're knocking on the door of 190/200. Beyond that it starts getting eexpensive. Reliability? i have run a tweaked 230bhp engine for a shade under 40k miles, it's just being refreshed....and if i hadn'tr been a goon and run it slightly low on oil no doubt it would have continued for another decent chunk of miles ( even now it wasnt a refresh that was def needed).
economy. on jenveys i estimate i get about 27-29 on a typ;ical run, which is generally 'highly spirited'. Pals with similar set ups are achieving up to 35 with more restianed right feet. Their relaibility......well close pals are nto EU trips and we have a UK jaunt once a year where we knock off 1500 miles in 5 days.....no issues. ( key to any conversion is making sure that quality of ancillaries/brackets is up to scratch).
oaascionally packages come up when someone is swapping out. i recently sold complete engine and EEVERYTHING to fit into another car ( minus engine mounts ).....for a grand, and have seen others around that level.
so will leave others to wax lyrical about other engines....but don't be concerned about a zetec .....
you asked about handling, can't see why handling would be different wih a zetec over any oher car engine....
kit cars have tended to use engines that came with the donor, hence umpteen pinto based cars, and then the zetec became the staple latterly the dura is starting more and more to be an alternative. So why zetec? well a brand new replacement engine can be had for £750 - ok by the time a fresh install is done it'll be in the 2.5k area with all the bits needed, but then to replace the engine following a disaster it's inexpensive.
Power wise they're tuneable, but out of the box they aren't too bad anyway. with a half decent exhaust in standard from on carbs 160-170bhp, with injection t/bodies ( even bike bodies ) a shade more. throw in a mild set of cams and you're knocking on the door of 190/200. Beyond that it starts getting eexpensive. Reliability? i have run a tweaked 230bhp engine for a shade under 40k miles, it's just being refreshed....and if i hadn'tr been a goon and run it slightly low on oil no doubt it would have continued for another decent chunk of miles ( even now it wasnt a refresh that was def needed).
economy. on jenveys i estimate i get about 27-29 on a typ;ical run, which is generally 'highly spirited'. Pals with similar set ups are achieving up to 35 with more restianed right feet. Their relaibility......well close pals are nto EU trips and we have a UK jaunt once a year where we knock off 1500 miles in 5 days.....no issues. ( key to any conversion is making sure that quality of ancillaries/brackets is up to scratch).
oaascionally packages come up when someone is swapping out. i recently sold complete engine and EEVERYTHING to fit into another car ( minus engine mounts ).....for a grand, and have seen others around that level.
so will leave others to wax lyrical about other engines....but don't be concerned about a zetec .....
greengreenwood7 said:
as a non Cat owner i can't comment on the merits of a zetec versus k or other engines in a Caterham, but i can comment from a wider kit car basis.
you asked about handling, can't see why handling would be different wih a zetec over any oher car engine....
.....
So would you not be concerned about the mass of the engine over the front wheels?you asked about handling, can't see why handling would be different wih a zetec over any oher car engine....
.....
K series is all ali and thus gives a nice balance to the car compared to a heavier engine, thus many people like k series engined cars.
We have a 1.8 race line zetec in ours. The original owner swapped it for his cross flow.
I can give it nothing but praise, a 2litre (same block) would be even better. It's currently on weber 40's. With a lightened flywheel, Kent cams and open exhaust. It goes well and makes a nice noise.
It's been reliable in our relatively short (8) month ownership. Seen 3 track days and plenty of road use and bouncing off the limiter.
Parts are all relatively cheaper and there is a huge 2nd hand bits market if needed.
Power delivery is as good as you can get from carbs, but will be converting to ITBs over winter.
Currently 160ish hp. Hoping for 170+ and a flatter torque curve and better fuel consumption with ITBs
We pulled the engine and gearbox out ourselves and refurbed(not us) the gearbox (and put in a longer 1st, type 9 is a great box but 1st is short.)
Good reliable engine, don't be put off.
I can give it nothing but praise, a 2litre (same block) would be even better. It's currently on weber 40's. With a lightened flywheel, Kent cams and open exhaust. It goes well and makes a nice noise.
It's been reliable in our relatively short (8) month ownership. Seen 3 track days and plenty of road use and bouncing off the limiter.
Parts are all relatively cheaper and there is a huge 2nd hand bits market if needed.
Power delivery is as good as you can get from carbs, but will be converting to ITBs over winter.
Currently 160ish hp. Hoping for 170+ and a flatter torque curve and better fuel consumption with ITBs
We pulled the engine and gearbox out ourselves and refurbed(not us) the gearbox (and put in a longer 1st, type 9 is a great box but 1st is short.)
Good reliable engine, don't be put off.
boy said: So would you not be concerned about the mass of the engine over the front wheels?
K series is all ali and thus gives a nice balance to the car compared to a heavier engine, thus many people like k series engined cars.
I think there is 10kg in it if memory is correct. Not a lot. K series is all ali and thus gives a nice balance to the car compared to a heavier engine, thus many people like k series engined cars.
Thanks for all the comments so far. Its pretty much what I expected really. Sounds like the Zetec is a great engine but perhaps suffers from being a bit heavier than is ideal.
How much of a difference would that 25kg make though in the real world for a car that would spend most of its time on the road rather than the track? I'm thinking predominantly about the effect on handling here?
I've heard people talking about the Vauxhall engined cars and referring to them as being a bit lardier than is ideal, how does the zetec compare weight wise to one of those?
In the end I suspect that, given my likely budget, I will have to weigh up the benefits of lighter, better handling K series with less power verus more powerfull but slightly heavier Zetec.
Anyone driven both that could comment on which path is likely the better one to take?
How much of a difference would that 25kg make though in the real world for a car that would spend most of its time on the road rather than the track? I'm thinking predominantly about the effect on handling here?
I've heard people talking about the Vauxhall engined cars and referring to them as being a bit lardier than is ideal, how does the zetec compare weight wise to one of those?
In the end I suspect that, given my likely budget, I will have to weigh up the benefits of lighter, better handling K series with less power verus more powerfull but slightly heavier Zetec.
Anyone driven both that could comment on which path is likely the better one to take?
Hi,
I have a x-flow Caterham (narrow track, de-dion, lsd) in which I have recently completed an engine swap for a 2.0l Blacktop Zetec.
Both were / are great engines. It is difficult to compare like with like as the x-flow was approx. 140bhp and the Zetec I have had tuned to 230bhp. As mentioned earlier, the engine has a very easy upgrade path and parts (spares and upgrades) are easily available.
The Zetec is a very useable engine, enough torque to ensure you are not forever changing gear and sensible fuel economy if on injection.
I wanted to retain some of the character of my x-flow so am running carbs and the engine performs very well (if a little thirsty) on track and road.
Would definitely recommend a zetec based car.
I have also driven my mates K series car and certainly dont believe the balance suffers from the heavier Ford unit.
I have a x-flow Caterham (narrow track, de-dion, lsd) in which I have recently completed an engine swap for a 2.0l Blacktop Zetec.
Both were / are great engines. It is difficult to compare like with like as the x-flow was approx. 140bhp and the Zetec I have had tuned to 230bhp. As mentioned earlier, the engine has a very easy upgrade path and parts (spares and upgrades) are easily available.
The Zetec is a very useable engine, enough torque to ensure you are not forever changing gear and sensible fuel economy if on injection.
I wanted to retain some of the character of my x-flow so am running carbs and the engine performs very well (if a little thirsty) on track and road.
Would definitely recommend a zetec based car.
I have also driven my mates K series car and certainly dont believe the balance suffers from the heavier Ford unit.
I have a 2.0 Black top from Raceline, I converted it from a 1700 Xflow, very pleased with the extra power and torque over and above the Xflow.
I have an Elise S1 with a 1.8 K and the engine is smooth, revs well and a pleasure to wind up.
As the Zetec is the obviouse upgrade choice for cost and gain over the Xflow it cannot be praised enough but I would now like a 7 with a 1.6 or 1.8 K played with by DVA for the drivability and MPH.
I have an Elise S1 with a 1.8 K and the engine is smooth, revs well and a pleasure to wind up.
As the Zetec is the obviouse upgrade choice for cost and gain over the Xflow it cannot be praised enough but I would now like a 7 with a 1.6 or 1.8 K played with by DVA for the drivability and MPH.
boy said:greengreenwood7 said:
as a non Cat owner i can't comment on the merits of a zetec versus k or other engines in a Caterham, but i can comment from a wider kit car basis.
you asked about handling, can't see why handling would be different wih a zetec over any oher car engine....
.....
So would you not be concerned about the mass of the engine over the front wheels?you asked about handling, can't see why handling would be different wih a zetec over any oher car engine....
.....
K series is all ali and thus gives a nice balance to the car compared to a heavier engine, thus many people like k series engined cars.
I own a Vaxhall 8v car which is an iron block, I don't know the weights bit I can't see the Zetec being much heavier.
My Zetec engined Live axle car weighs 550kg - measured at Millwoods in August
Ford English axle & 5spd gearbox.
Previously had a 1.7 x/flow and 4-spd gearbox fitted.
Cannot remember what it weighed as a x/flow - can't find the printout!
I would point out that it was only 10kg heavier than a k-series, although it was lighter than a certain Yellow - sorry Mango - coloured R400
Ford English axle & 5spd gearbox.
Previously had a 1.7 x/flow and 4-spd gearbox fitted.
Cannot remember what it weighed as a x/flow - can't find the printout!
I would point out that it was only 10kg heavier than a k-series, although it was lighter than a certain Yellow - sorry Mango - coloured R400
Live axle chassis is a lighter starting point than any K-Series car which are all DeDion (bar a few bitsas) though.
The Zetec is a solid and seemingly reliable replacement for an X-Flow, but it is heavier than a K-Series or Duratec. Any extra weight at the front in such a light car does make some difference, but it isn't catastrophic (unlike if a Pinto boat anchor was fitted).
There are some excellent ones out there, but keep in mind that they will all be conversion cars, so the engine that was put in may not have been new. Some conversions will be done my pros and others by semi-pro or owners. Nothing wrong with that, but you need to take a good look a the car to assess the quality of the workmanship. I once looked at a 7 that was described as immaculate and the owners told me how he serviced it more often than the book said etc. This didn't change the fact it just didn't drive right and although immaculately shiny and seemingly cared for, it wasn't for me.
The Zetec is a solid and seemingly reliable replacement for an X-Flow, but it is heavier than a K-Series or Duratec. Any extra weight at the front in such a light car does make some difference, but it isn't catastrophic (unlike if a Pinto boat anchor was fitted).
There are some excellent ones out there, but keep in mind that they will all be conversion cars, so the engine that was put in may not have been new. Some conversions will be done my pros and others by semi-pro or owners. Nothing wrong with that, but you need to take a good look a the car to assess the quality of the workmanship. I once looked at a 7 that was described as immaculate and the owners told me how he serviced it more often than the book said etc. This didn't change the fact it just didn't drive right and although immaculately shiny and seemingly cared for, it wasn't for me.
I've been more than happy with my Raceline Zetec (tuned to 190bhp to meet Class 4 requirements in Club Championship)since I installed it after the demise of my x/flow in 2010, but then again I can't offer any direct comparisons as I've never driven any other engined 7. I've managed about 7,000 miles of touring and sprinting in it in that time and I'm sure my driving style has evolved to compensate for the extra weight that the x/flow and Zetec have compared to the K. Bags of torque (167lbs/ft), but it's never goona be a revvy engine (I limit mine to around 7,200). The engine hasn't disgraced itself whilst sprinting, but there's no doubt there's more to come via driver improvement!
I had the x/flow for something like 11 years and 55,000 miles so I expect the Zetec will see my driving career out.......!
I had the x/flow for something like 11 years and 55,000 miles so I expect the Zetec will see my driving career out.......!
Aeroscreens said:
I've been more than happy with my Raceline Zetec (tuned to 190bhp to meet Class 4 requirements in Club Championship)since I installed it after the demise of my x/flow in 2010, but then again I can't offer any direct comparisons as I've never driven any other engined 7. I've managed about 7,000 miles of touring and sprinting in it in that time and I'm sure my driving style has evolved to compensate for the extra weight that the x/flow and Zetec have compared to the K. Bags of torque (167lbs/ft), but it's never goona be a revvy engine (I limit mine to around 7,200). The engine hasn't disgraced itself whilst sprinting, but there's no doubt there's more to come via driver improvement!
I had the x/flow for something like 11 years and 55,000 miles so I expect the Zetec will see my driving career out.......!
Did you have the Caterham in low flying with the article about zetec conversion? I remember seeing 'aeroscreens' on a blue spark plug cover over a white cam cover?I had the x/flow for something like 11 years and 55,000 miles so I expect the Zetec will see my driving career out.......!
en6jwrs said:
The Zetec is a very useable engine, enough torque to ensure you are not forever changing gear and sensible fuel economy if on injection.
I wanted to retain some of the character of my x-flow so am running carbs and the engine performs very well (if a little thirsty) on track and road
I run twin 45s, and I get very good economy.I wanted to retain some of the character of my x-flow so am running carbs and the engine performs very well (if a little thirsty) on track and road
I have a 3D mapped ignition, and you do need to make sure the carbs set-up and map are well sorted, but the economy is very good
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