Caterham with no garage facility??
Discussion
Just trying to establish if a Caterham with no garage facility is a practical proposition....?
I'm on a low budget but keen to get into Caterham ownership sooner rather than later.... (this has been on the wish list for 5 or 6 years, but is only now just about do-able.... (I've had my sights set on the Academy but that's obviously going to have to wait a while (budget-wise)....!) Have done a couple of Caterham experience days - enough to whet my appetite!! and have decided to take the sensible route and feel my way in slowly (ie second hand Roadsport, run it for a year or so, doing as many track days as I can afford both time and money-wise) and then re-assess (ie keep/upgrade/or sell and put in for the academy).
I live in a terrace with no frontal off road parking (or garage), but have a long thin rear garden, a secure (gated) access track at the rear and plenty of space where an old wooden garage used to be... The original plan was to put in a new slab and get a Lidget/Compton style garage put up where the old used to be.... (have had the local agent do a site visit and had a quote). This is still probably the most practical option re security, weather protection, a work space etc etc but obviously adds considerably to the budget.... (or eats into the car budget!)
I was wondering if people felt a portable/folding garage or substantial car cover is a practical option with something like a Caterham without causing it significant deterioration.... (the car would be to be used not just polished!)
Re the car I'd be looking at something in the £10,000 to £15,000 price range (have been keeping an eagle eye on the Pistonheads classifieds of late!). Ideally aiming to be up and running (with or without garage!) by March to make the most of the year.
Any thoughts welcome - especially from those with similar experience....
I'm on a low budget but keen to get into Caterham ownership sooner rather than later.... (this has been on the wish list for 5 or 6 years, but is only now just about do-able.... (I've had my sights set on the Academy but that's obviously going to have to wait a while (budget-wise)....!) Have done a couple of Caterham experience days - enough to whet my appetite!! and have decided to take the sensible route and feel my way in slowly (ie second hand Roadsport, run it for a year or so, doing as many track days as I can afford both time and money-wise) and then re-assess (ie keep/upgrade/or sell and put in for the academy).
I live in a terrace with no frontal off road parking (or garage), but have a long thin rear garden, a secure (gated) access track at the rear and plenty of space where an old wooden garage used to be... The original plan was to put in a new slab and get a Lidget/Compton style garage put up where the old used to be.... (have had the local agent do a site visit and had a quote). This is still probably the most practical option re security, weather protection, a work space etc etc but obviously adds considerably to the budget.... (or eats into the car budget!)
I was wondering if people felt a portable/folding garage or substantial car cover is a practical option with something like a Caterham without causing it significant deterioration.... (the car would be to be used not just polished!)
Re the car I'd be looking at something in the £10,000 to £15,000 price range (have been keeping an eagle eye on the Pistonheads classifieds of late!). Ideally aiming to be up and running (with or without garage!) by March to make the most of the year.
Any thoughts welcome - especially from those with similar experience....
There have been a few owners with no garage parking available to them including one who used to park in Central London and it isn't a problem for the car at all. I have had to keep a car on the driveway for quite some time under a cover and simply used a good quality breathable item. It comes out in the same condition as it went in. If possible use a battery conditioner or solar powered item to keep the battery in reasonable condition if its going to stand for a while as Caterham's OEM batteries (Banner) do not like to be flattened as its shortens their life quite considerably.
Depending on how long it is going to be there between runs, you might look to give it a good clean and dry before putting the cover on. Or if its a daily driver, don't bother to use a cover and give it regular cleans. A product that bikers use is ACF50 and this comes well recommended to prevent/reduce corrosion. In fact there is a company that applies the stuff to bikes after doing their preparation and it gives all year round protections (website is www.allyearbiker.co.uk) and I've considered having my seven done as well as my bike.
So don't let the lack of a garage put you off at all!
T
Depending on how long it is going to be there between runs, you might look to give it a good clean and dry before putting the cover on. Or if its a daily driver, don't bother to use a cover and give it regular cleans. A product that bikers use is ACF50 and this comes well recommended to prevent/reduce corrosion. In fact there is a company that applies the stuff to bikes after doing their preparation and it gives all year round protections (website is www.allyearbiker.co.uk) and I've considered having my seven done as well as my bike.
So don't let the lack of a garage put you off at all!
T
http://www.mycaterham.com has a bit about Angus' car sitting outside for 18 months.
Naturally the main problem here is accelerated corrosion, not just of the chassis but of the aluminium bodywork and the wiring/electronics which aren't sealed from the environment. My Caterham lived outside for the best part of a year and as a previous poster said, if you can use the car regularly it'll help a lot in terms of mechanical reliability.
At some point in their lives I imagine most Caterhams are stripped down and re-powder coated and re-skinned. It's not an inexpensive exercise but it does mean that a Caterham will never really be killed by corrosion and can always be restored to immaculate condition by the original manufacturer for a reasonable cost should you ever want to turn it into a garage queen.
At some point in their lives I imagine most Caterhams are stripped down and re-powder coated and re-skinned. It's not an inexpensive exercise but it does mean that a Caterham will never really be killed by corrosion and can always be restored to immaculate condition by the original manufacturer for a reasonable cost should you ever want to turn it into a garage queen.
Depending on budget £80 a month will get you secure, dehumidified storage. Could be an option?
http://www.midlandcarstorage.co.uk/
http://www.midlandcarstorage.co.uk/
I've had mine for nearly 4 years now with no garage. It's a 1999 model, but was garaged (well at least who I bought it off) by the previous owner to myself.
So it lives outside without a cover. It was my daily for 3 years or so up until getting a work van as a daily hack.
I recently POR15'd the chassis. It didn't really need much attention once I really got it up on a 2 poster and really looked at it, but one or two areas were showing signs of surface rust, so I thought that it wouldn't do it any harm to paint it.
Apart from that, my sideskins seem to suffer from bubbling where the steel chassis tubes (top and bottom running along engine bay) meet the alloy sideksins.
It's used more than it is polished, so it doesn't concern me that much. I'd think about having it sorted if I had a garage to keep it in.
Bar that, I keep the tonneau cover on daily. If it's really raining hard, then I'd put the half hood which helps to stop the water pooling on the tonneau.
I've drilled 3 small holes in the floor plan/ foot well each side which lets out any water that get's built up!
The carbon fibre tends to suffer. My Caterham CF indicator pods look dreadful at the moment as water seems to have gotten into the weaver. I've bought new ones and have taken them to a spray shop to have them clear coated as I'm told that this will help. I'll fit them soon.
The CF front guards on the other hand seem to have discoloured, so aren't looking great these days.
I don't often clean it though, so this could be all my doing!
So it lives outside without a cover. It was my daily for 3 years or so up until getting a work van as a daily hack.
I recently POR15'd the chassis. It didn't really need much attention once I really got it up on a 2 poster and really looked at it, but one or two areas were showing signs of surface rust, so I thought that it wouldn't do it any harm to paint it.
Apart from that, my sideskins seem to suffer from bubbling where the steel chassis tubes (top and bottom running along engine bay) meet the alloy sideksins.
It's used more than it is polished, so it doesn't concern me that much. I'd think about having it sorted if I had a garage to keep it in.
Bar that, I keep the tonneau cover on daily. If it's really raining hard, then I'd put the half hood which helps to stop the water pooling on the tonneau.
I've drilled 3 small holes in the floor plan/ foot well each side which lets out any water that get's built up!
The carbon fibre tends to suffer. My Caterham CF indicator pods look dreadful at the moment as water seems to have gotten into the weaver. I've bought new ones and have taken them to a spray shop to have them clear coated as I'm told that this will help. I'll fit them soon.
The CF front guards on the other hand seem to have discoloured, so aren't looking great these days.
I don't often clean it though, so this could be all my doing!
Thanks very much for the encouraging responses..... interesting to see how others deal with similar issues, and the problems encountered. Yes, I suppose it is the additional deterioration (that garaging protects from) that was originally my main concern... I wouldn't want to feel I was devaluing a car un-necessarily.... though obviously cars such as these are there to be used! Good tips re weather protection, strategies etc.... thanks!
The second concern is security, and then of course any implications re higher insurance premiums (garaging, versus off road parking, versus on street parking....). I get the impression that there is a general respect for cars such as Caterhams and that the risk of theft, wilful damage, vandalism is generally relatively low???
I've been brainstorming my thoughts with a few of my interested pupils... and a few ideas have been suggested...
Weighing everything up, I think I'll probably build a (garage spec) slab at the bottom of the garden to give me a good surface to store the car on for now (with a lockable gate where our end fence currently is), and use a cover and/or portable fabric style garage (even a gazebo was suggested... !) to offer a little extra weather protection or somewhere to work on it from as need be. (Some sort of security shackle concreted in was suggested too - possibly not a bad idea). If I then choose to do more work on it, upgrade, build it's successor (!).... I could then have the garage erected at a later date funds permitting.
I need to dismantle a little three storey play house I build for the kids where the slab is gonna go. I have even thought about using the timbers from that to make the basis of a sort of carport structure as an alternative... all considerably cheaper than a full blown garage.... (I quite like the idea of that).
All food for thought....
What all this has established is that I don't need to let the lack of a garage thwart my plans.... which, thinking about it, is probably what I wanted to hear....
Nice one guys! Just got to find the right car now!!
The second concern is security, and then of course any implications re higher insurance premiums (garaging, versus off road parking, versus on street parking....). I get the impression that there is a general respect for cars such as Caterhams and that the risk of theft, wilful damage, vandalism is generally relatively low???
I've been brainstorming my thoughts with a few of my interested pupils... and a few ideas have been suggested...
Weighing everything up, I think I'll probably build a (garage spec) slab at the bottom of the garden to give me a good surface to store the car on for now (with a lockable gate where our end fence currently is), and use a cover and/or portable fabric style garage (even a gazebo was suggested... !) to offer a little extra weather protection or somewhere to work on it from as need be. (Some sort of security shackle concreted in was suggested too - possibly not a bad idea). If I then choose to do more work on it, upgrade, build it's successor (!).... I could then have the garage erected at a later date funds permitting.
I need to dismantle a little three storey play house I build for the kids where the slab is gonna go. I have even thought about using the timbers from that to make the basis of a sort of carport structure as an alternative... all considerably cheaper than a full blown garage.... (I quite like the idea of that).
All food for thought....
What all this has established is that I don't need to let the lack of a garage thwart my plans.... which, thinking about it, is probably what I wanted to hear....
Nice one guys! Just got to find the right car now!!
Many cars come with removable steering wheels. Immobiliser seems standard, at least on K series onwards. I've also recently fitted a battery master switch. While it can be easily over ridden with some wiring, I mostly fitted it to counter any discharging from the battery. But without knowing about it, finding it and having a key to enable it again, you have no power to anything.
If you're having a slab laid, you could always concrete in a ground anchor and lock the Caterham down to it when not in use!?
If you're having a slab laid, you could always concrete in a ground anchor and lock the Caterham down to it when not in use!?
guitarguy said:
Weighing everything up, I think I'll probably build a (garage spec) slab at the bottom of the garden to give me a good surface to store the car on for now (with a lockable gate where our end fence currently is), and use a cover and/or portable fabric style garage (even a gazebo was suggested... !) to offer a little extra weather protection or somewhere to work on it from as need be.
May not be suitable for your needs but could be worth looking at something like this until the garage is built?http://www.carcoon.com/carcoon-double-skin-outdoor...
http://www.hamiltonclassic.co.uk/acatalog/CairOPor...
http://www.hamiltonclassic.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_...
http://www.hamiltonclassic.co.uk/acatalog/Car_Shel...
Edited by Agent Orange on Thursday 3rd January 22:29
Consider a wooden garage, instead of concrete?
Wood is much warmer and drier.
You could start with the posts, and a roof, then close it it with timber as funds alow. (A sort of garage by installments)
Also when you lay the slab, put some DPM in it, for when you finaly get around to erecting something.
You can't beat having somewhere warm, dry, and well lit to tinker with your toy. What better then a big shed!
Wood is much warmer and drier.
You could start with the posts, and a roof, then close it it with timber as funds alow. (A sort of garage by installments)
Also when you lay the slab, put some DPM in it, for when you finaly get around to erecting something.
You can't beat having somewhere warm, dry, and well lit to tinker with your toy. What better then a big shed!
Hi, I thought I'd better share this experience and perhaps save someone else from making a costly mistake.
I live in a conservation area, in a fairly wild part of West Yorkshire, so once your garage is full the only options are build another one to satisfy the local planning department (i e build a small brick house for c. £20K), car covers (never found one that worked) or various "temporary" shelters that fall outside of the planning laws.
I've used Dancover and Protech portable shelters for nearly 5 years. They are brilliant, shrugging off wind, snow and driving rain with aplomb. The airspace is well ventilated so dampness doesn't accumulate and after years of storage the cars remain bone dry. The point here is that some temporary garages can work extremely well for prolonged periods in adverse weather conditions.
Recently, I needed more storage, haven fallen into the trap of acquiring a couple too many "unmissable" parts and projects. Feeling reasonably confident with the whole concept of PVC and tarpaulin garages, and, after a chat with the local planning officer, I decided to move a little up market and try some thing a bit bigger.
Inexplicably, rather than go back to a company that I trusted and had faith in, I bought a storage tent form a company that advertises on ebay from outside of the UK. To be clear, this was advertised as a heavy duty tent that was suitable for year round use, and it was the company's intent to provide 24/7 Germanic build quality.
Please, don't do the same thing! After a few weeks eight of the tube joiners in the tent frame had failed (the welds hadn't penetrated into the base material to any real extent) and the tent almost collapsed. The company concerned eventually replaced the failed connectors, and I wasted my time rebuilding the tent, because a month later in the recent snow it collapsed completely. Sadly a rather nice Fiat X1/9 and an even nicer Alfa GTV were underneath it. Both have been extensively damaged.
According to the company concerned all year round doesn't mean in winter or in snow. Apparently in winter the correct procedure is to take whatever is being stored in the shelter and leave it out in the snow, to rot. Then the tent should be dismantled and stored somewhere safe. In one of their competitors shelters perhaps? This advice is in incredibly small print on the last page of the instructions. Unsurprisingly, it's not mentioned in the advertising blurb.
Please learn from my mistake. There are some excellent temporary garages out there, but sadly some are deviously marketed junk.
Ed.
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/p2rplYoe.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/DFSidKtZ" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/DFSidKtZ.jpg)
I live in a conservation area, in a fairly wild part of West Yorkshire, so once your garage is full the only options are build another one to satisfy the local planning department (i e build a small brick house for c. £20K), car covers (never found one that worked) or various "temporary" shelters that fall outside of the planning laws.
I've used Dancover and Protech portable shelters for nearly 5 years. They are brilliant, shrugging off wind, snow and driving rain with aplomb. The airspace is well ventilated so dampness doesn't accumulate and after years of storage the cars remain bone dry. The point here is that some temporary garages can work extremely well for prolonged periods in adverse weather conditions.
Recently, I needed more storage, haven fallen into the trap of acquiring a couple too many "unmissable" parts and projects. Feeling reasonably confident with the whole concept of PVC and tarpaulin garages, and, after a chat with the local planning officer, I decided to move a little up market and try some thing a bit bigger.
Inexplicably, rather than go back to a company that I trusted and had faith in, I bought a storage tent form a company that advertises on ebay from outside of the UK. To be clear, this was advertised as a heavy duty tent that was suitable for year round use, and it was the company's intent to provide 24/7 Germanic build quality.
Please, don't do the same thing! After a few weeks eight of the tube joiners in the tent frame had failed (the welds hadn't penetrated into the base material to any real extent) and the tent almost collapsed. The company concerned eventually replaced the failed connectors, and I wasted my time rebuilding the tent, because a month later in the recent snow it collapsed completely. Sadly a rather nice Fiat X1/9 and an even nicer Alfa GTV were underneath it. Both have been extensively damaged.
According to the company concerned all year round doesn't mean in winter or in snow. Apparently in winter the correct procedure is to take whatever is being stored in the shelter and leave it out in the snow, to rot. Then the tent should be dismantled and stored somewhere safe. In one of their competitors shelters perhaps? This advice is in incredibly small print on the last page of the instructions. Unsurprisingly, it's not mentioned in the advertising blurb.
Please learn from my mistake. There are some excellent temporary garages out there, but sadly some are deviously marketed junk.
Ed.
This year I'm keeping mine in an airchamber on the drive but with a home made internal frame to beef it up and arch the roof to let rain run off. I sealed the fan holes and run a dessicant wheel dehumidifier in it to prevent condensation.
I did look at dancover for a ready made solution but as I had the airchamber already I decided to use that.
http://www.dancovershop.com/uk/products/portable-g...
I did look at dancover for a ready made solution but as I had the airchamber already I decided to use that.
http://www.dancovershop.com/uk/products/portable-g...
mickrick said:
Consider a wooden garage, instead of concrete?
Wood is much warmer and drier.
You could start with the posts, and a roof, then close it it with timber as funds alow. (A sort of garage by installments)
Also when you lay the slab, put some DPM in it, for when you finaly get around to erecting something.
You can't beat having somewhere warm, dry, and well lit to tinker with your toy. What better then a big shed!
Agree even a brick built garage you would be looking at a Carcoon or whatever to keep it good condition particularly over the winter Wood is much warmer and drier.
You could start with the posts, and a roof, then close it it with timber as funds alow. (A sort of garage by installments)
Also when you lay the slab, put some DPM in it, for when you finaly get around to erecting something.
You can't beat having somewhere warm, dry, and well lit to tinker with your toy. What better then a big shed!
I keep my Seven in a damp garage inside an Airchamber. Inside the chamber the discs stay shiny for months on end of winter weather. Anything outside the chamber rusts really badly.
I also have a wooden shed with various machine tools. They don't rust.
So a wooden garage is probably the best bet or failing that a concrete one with an Airchamer inside.
I also have a wooden shed with various machine tools. They don't rust.
So a wooden garage is probably the best bet or failing that a concrete one with an Airchamer inside.
I'm looking at putting up a wooden garage myself in the near future, as a temporary measure to keep the seven at home, untill I get my workshop built propper.
I hate the cold, and even though I live in Sunny Mallorca, the weather in the winter is dire! Cold windy and very wet.
I also hate working on a dusty concrete floor, so I'll probably throw down some cheap tiles. Wouldn't cost a lot, as the single wooden garage I'm looking at is 17sq m.
I've also been looking at some heat, and at just over £200 I can put some electric heat mat under the tiles complete with thermostat. (do a quick search on e-bay)
A bit of foam inside the walls and roof, a couple of flourescent lights, and the wife will never see me! Quick and cheap
Luxury!
Millwoods also have a realy nice 1 owner car in at the moment for a tad over 10k, http://www.millwood-mc.com/ (the green 1600 with clams) so you could buy the car, and put the wooden garage up, all within your 15k budget
(I have no association with Millwoods)
I hate the cold, and even though I live in Sunny Mallorca, the weather in the winter is dire! Cold windy and very wet.
I also hate working on a dusty concrete floor, so I'll probably throw down some cheap tiles. Wouldn't cost a lot, as the single wooden garage I'm looking at is 17sq m.
I've also been looking at some heat, and at just over £200 I can put some electric heat mat under the tiles complete with thermostat. (do a quick search on e-bay)
A bit of foam inside the walls and roof, a couple of flourescent lights, and the wife will never see me! Quick and cheap
Luxury!Millwoods also have a realy nice 1 owner car in at the moment for a tad over 10k, http://www.millwood-mc.com/ (the green 1600 with clams) so you could buy the car, and put the wooden garage up, all within your 15k budget
(I have no association with Millwoods)
Edited by mickrick on Friday 25th January 10:25
Thanks again people.... Yes, a ground anchor was in the plan if I do the slab 'Gingerbread Man'.
I've had a browse through the various soft/portable garaging options and there seems to be some good systems out there. Thanks Ed for the thoughts on 'not all temporary garages being equal'! Sorry to hear of your woes on that front...
Thanks also 'Mickrick' and 'downsman'... the more I think about this the more I think a slab and a wooden garage is the way to go... I hadn't really cottoned on to the 'cold and damp' / 'warmer and drier' thing with concrete versus wood. (My experience of wooden garages/sheds have been of the 'rotten/falling down variety' though since I re-roofed an old large shed that I nearly pulled down I have been very impressed with it's dryness!). If well maintained I reckon wood has a lot going for it...!
I'd probably do this in instalments (thanks Mick!) - probably car port type structure first to then be filled in, as and when I have time/budget/inclination!. I must admit I do hate to pay someone else to do something I can do myself and I do like designing/building stuff like that.... (one of my guitar pupils is the MD of a carpentry joinery firm and has offered some help/and possibly some cheap off-cuts from a forthcoming large contract which may well help push me in that direction). Think it through in advance and that could work well I feel....
I think my only concerns are more re security and a decent and pleasant working environment to tinker... I feel some of the more elaborate carcoon type systems are better suited for the 'mothballing over winter' storage approach etc?? I reckon my car (when I get it) is gonna be 'used' pretty much as and when....so not too precious on that front. I suppose concrete/brick is more secure than a wooden garage, but if someone wants to break in they're gonna do it come what may.... and like you say 'Gingerbread Man' the car itself isn't likely to go anywhere.... (suppose I'm thinking tools and kit too!)
I tell you what, it's a bit of a minefield trying to establish what you want and don't want on a Caterham.... and then trying to establish what any given car is worth... I suppose in the long run it's worth what you're prepared to pay for it....! But that's another forum thread in it's own right!
I've had a browse through the various soft/portable garaging options and there seems to be some good systems out there. Thanks Ed for the thoughts on 'not all temporary garages being equal'! Sorry to hear of your woes on that front...
Thanks also 'Mickrick' and 'downsman'... the more I think about this the more I think a slab and a wooden garage is the way to go... I hadn't really cottoned on to the 'cold and damp' / 'warmer and drier' thing with concrete versus wood. (My experience of wooden garages/sheds have been of the 'rotten/falling down variety' though since I re-roofed an old large shed that I nearly pulled down I have been very impressed with it's dryness!). If well maintained I reckon wood has a lot going for it...!
I'd probably do this in instalments (thanks Mick!) - probably car port type structure first to then be filled in, as and when I have time/budget/inclination!. I must admit I do hate to pay someone else to do something I can do myself and I do like designing/building stuff like that.... (one of my guitar pupils is the MD of a carpentry joinery firm and has offered some help/and possibly some cheap off-cuts from a forthcoming large contract which may well help push me in that direction). Think it through in advance and that could work well I feel....
I think my only concerns are more re security and a decent and pleasant working environment to tinker... I feel some of the more elaborate carcoon type systems are better suited for the 'mothballing over winter' storage approach etc?? I reckon my car (when I get it) is gonna be 'used' pretty much as and when....so not too precious on that front. I suppose concrete/brick is more secure than a wooden garage, but if someone wants to break in they're gonna do it come what may.... and like you say 'Gingerbread Man' the car itself isn't likely to go anywhere.... (suppose I'm thinking tools and kit too!)
- ********************
I tell you what, it's a bit of a minefield trying to establish what you want and don't want on a Caterham.... and then trying to establish what any given car is worth... I suppose in the long run it's worth what you're prepared to pay for it....! But that's another forum thread in it's own right!
downsman said:
I keep my Seven in a damp garage inside an Airchamber. Inside the chamber the discs stay shiny for months on end of winter weather. Anything outside the chamber rusts really badly.
I also have a wooden shed with various machine tools. They don't rust.
So a wooden garage is probably the best bet or failing that a concrete one with an Airchamer inside.
Sounds like I have the same situation as you and its something of a concern with (hopefully) impending purchase. My garage is really damp and water gathers on roof. My thinking was effectively building a wooden structure inside the garage to keep it dry but sounds like Airchamber a better idea.I also have a wooden shed with various machine tools. They don't rust.
So a wooden garage is probably the best bet or failing that a concrete one with an Airchamer inside.
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