Caterham Cars - The futures bright, isn’t it?

[viper blue]

Just found this article which is an interesting read:-

http://skiddmark.com/2013/01/an-open-letter-to-cat...

Let us hope things work out in these shaky economic times.

Just found this one :

http://skiddmark.com/2012/11/andy-noble-caterham-c...

PS Looks as though Blatchat has now taken the link posted here; Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all.

Edited by viper blue on Saturday 19th January 17:03

[grenpayne]

Interesting article, but as always there's two sides to every story and Caterham aren't telling their side of the points raised in the article at the moment. I personally believe Caterham have done and are doing well, both in the current economic climate and looking towards the future. The (aspirational) introduction of the Karting Series together with the SP300R bolsters the already decent ladder of motorsport offerings and that has to be a good thing. The only worry is that the F1 side could be dropped in the years to come.

Looking at the road cars, the 2012 Supersport model is selling well and the introduction of the Supersport R at least shows they're happy to tweak the range to suit the markets. I'm not sure that I like the idea of loosing the R300 but that's just my sentimentality at work And if this article is to be believed then it looks like they are continuing to do so and introduce a slightly cheaper and more basic model too (live axle though!?).

Finger's crossed the future is bright for them, in the world moving towards more driver automation, regulation and general motoring apathy, they are a breath of fresh air

Edited by grenpayne on Saturday 19th January 16:38

[BertBert]

I'm sure he has some points, but as he said himself it just reads like someone who is in a bit of a grump about Caterham.

Shocking. People announcing dates they don't end up sticking to?

BErt

[mickrick]

Back to basic model. That's the best thing I've heard since AA took it over in 2005!
As long as it comes with a Ford 7" diff. and not the BMW anvil!
I think they have lost their way a bit since Graham sold out.

[Some Gump]

I didn't read much of it. IMo a bloke who has gone bust badmouthing others that are sucessful isn't worth reading. I've only read a bit in the past about hyperion, and that was linked to those utter shaggers at Capesthorne classics - possibly the only outfit in the UK with a worse reputation than Verdi.

Does caterham have a future? I certainly hope so. Do I care what that author wants to say over 4 pages when 1 would do? Definately not.

[EFA]

Some Gump said:

those utter shaggers at Capesthorne classics - possibly the only outfit in the UK with a worse reputation than Verdi.

Clearly not heard about A*!

[Agent Orange]

Up until he said people might try and deflect the story due to him being European brand director for a car competing in the same segment and that he lost a business whilst involved with Caterham. Not to mention him stating his relationship with those at Caterham at the time deteriorated badly because of it, I kind of lost interest.

Which was a shame because it was the first paragraph.

[rubystone]

EFA said:

Some Gump said:

those utter shaggers at Capesthorne classics - possibly the only outfit in the UK with a worse reputation than Verdi.

Clearly not heard about A*!

And God knows why he links Hyperion with them. A classic post from an ill informed individual. Shall we fill in some of the missing letter so that he can google them too or shall we keep him guessing?...

[BertBert]

EFA said:

Some Gump said:

those utter shaggers at Capesthorne classics - possibly the only outfit in the UK with a worse reputation than Verdi.

Clearly not heard about A*!

Ahhh, those were the days!

[factor7]

Some Gump said:

I didn't read much of it. IMo a bloke who has gone bust badmouthing others that are sucessful isn't worth reading. I've only read a bit in the past about hyperion, and that was linked to those utter shaggers at Capesthorne classics - possibly the only outfit in the UK with a worse reputation than Verdi.

Does caterham have a future? I certainly hope so. Do I care what that author wants to say over 4 pages when 1 would do? Definately not.

With reference to Some Gump, Hyperion was never involved with Capesthorne Classics. Whatever you think you read, it was wrong.

And does Caterham Cars have a future? Of course they do, and I certainly hope it is a bright one. The Seven is an incredible car and there are many good people working at Dartford, Caterham, Earl Shilton, Hethel and Hürth. My point is that if a business feeds information to the media, then the media has a duty to perform checks and balances, rather than simply reporting verbatim. That is what my editor and I attempted to do. Unfortunately, Caterham wanted to defer any discussion for several months which, in the light of information received by us, was not deemed an acceptable response.

We have therefore raised several simple questions which Caterham may or may not choose to respond to. If they do respond, then we will report objectively. It's as simple as that.

Steve

[Some Gump]

^ Then I apologiese for linking Hyperion to Capesthorne. Last year, for almost a year there was and advert requesting assistance with repatriating "the famous hyperion 7" from Dubai run by Capesthorne, which in itself had some mad story of soap opera proportions. I had wrongly assumed the 2 outfits were linked - clerly they are not.

Sorry for any offence caused

Gump

[factor7]

Some Gump said:

^ Then I apologiese for linking Hyperion to Capesthorne. Last year, for almost a year there was and advert requesting assistance with repatriating "the famous hyperion 7" from Dubai run by Capesthorne, which in itself had some mad story of soap opera proportions. I had wrongly assumed the 2 outfits were linked - clerly they are not.

Sorry for any offence caused

Gump

Thank you - I like to think that our cars were "famous" because they were well built, well set-up and won many races and championships (with a fair amount of assistance from those who were behind the wheel).

[BertBert]

A genuine question, how do you feel about it seeming to some (inc me) that you are perhaps not very objective in your writing about Caterham?
Bert

[factor7]

Hi Bert, this is a perfectly reasonable question.

Firstly, my commercial relationship with Caterham was initially with the Nearns, and then with Ansar Ali and his partners (Mark Edwards and Gideon Wigger). When we (along with others) experienced the development issues with the R400 > C400 conversions, and the introduction of the CSR 260 race car, we lost significant revenues by having to undertake unpaid remedial work (10 Superlight conversions); by losing our payment for an exclusive overseas track hire for customer testing (as despite assurances, kits were late and short); and, because of failures, shortages and late-deliveries, we lost practically all pre-season test-support revenues.

Why do I mention this? Because the operational directors of Caterham at this time were Ansar, Mark and Gideon. If memory serves me correctly, Graham (MacDonald) wasn't even an employee of the company then. So if I have / had a gripe with anybody, it would be with the three guys who (along with Corven) bought the business from the Nearns, and now are no longer there; and as I say in the article, Ansar, Mark and I talked about what happened and shook hands some time ago; and Gideon and I always remained friendly. So it really can't be suggested that I have a historic problem with Graham because we barely know each other.

Nevertheless, there was the opinion piece that I wrote about Andy Noble's departure from Caterham which was perhaps a little blunt. However, whether I've written about Caterham or Radical or Westfield or Ginetta, I've been at pains to stress that all of these brands depend heavily on key, often long-serving individuals who understand the personalities of / relationships with customers, co-workers, partners, dealers and stake-holders; relationships that help to not only define brands but can also sustain them when times are bad. I felt that Andy was treated appallingly by Caterham's present management and I believe that Graham made a serious mistake by allowing others to take control of his responsibilities. But, the loss of yet another senior executive (four that I know of in 2012) is now also in the past. I said what I had to say and we move on.

So very simply, my problem is not with Caterham; I've owned three and I absolutely loved them. My problem is with the way any manufacturer uses the media to project information, yet when we try to discuss issues that are raised with us or concern us (and that might make uncomfortable reading), they choose not to engage. Everybody who uses this forum has a passion for a car or a marque or a type of car and we all understand that sometimes, for whatever reason, things don't happen, or simply go wrong. We might not like it, but we learn to accept it. It's part of the process of owning a niche product.

And why am I concerned now? Because if readers are being asked to buy a £45,000 race car on the promise of a stand-alone grid, they might be a little upset if that's not what they get, and even more so if they discover that we suspected some time ago that this might happen. We're not expecting to gain any friends by pushing this agenda but it's surely what discerning readers should expect from any publication.

Steve

[Steffan]

Of all the difficult areas in the difficult business of profitably producing cars of any description, producing low volume performance cars is undoubtedly the most difficult. The probability must be therefore that Caterham cars will experience some difficulty in achieving that goal. The car business has been littered with failed low volume performance car businesses from the beginning.

If there is sufficient capital behind Caterham in its current form then there is a chance. If the management team really understand the business the chances are improved. However this is an extremely difficult path to follow successfully and the prospects must be doubtful because of the inherent difficulty in running any successful low volume performance car manufacturing business.

I personally wish them well. But the odds cannot be favourable.

[James.S]

As mentioned on BC - From a motorsport perspective I believe CC have been and continue to be very open, fair and realistic with the customers who have put down orders for race cars.

[BertBert]

Steve, thanks for your thoughtful and open answer. Much appreciated.
Bert

[viper blue]

So, some news here folks.

www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/Caterham-Cars-sheltere...

Bright, or slightly overcast ?

[rubystone]

viper blue said:

So, some news here folks.

www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/Caterham-Cars-sheltere...

Bright, or slightly overcast ?

Have they found concrete alternative location/s yet?

[mic]

I believe they have.