Finally got one! What will I need that I haven't thought of?
Discussion
After much deliberation and test drives in various cars (many thanks to Caterham for letting me try so many!), I've put my name down for a SuperSport R in kit form. Should take delivery sometime in early August.
In short, had a go in the Sigma powered car which was a great car but I didn't feel it was quite quick enough. Once I'd been in the Duratec car I was smitten. If anyone is on the hunt, the Supersport really is a terrific car for the road. I was surprised as I thought the suspension was likely to be too stiff but not a bit of it, perfect for the road.
So now that the purchase is made, what things am I going to need to assist with the build? As luck would have it, I was lucky enough to get £800 worth of Draper tools thrown in so I should be all good for spanners and the such like but what else am I going to need or would be useful to assist with the build?
So far my thoughts are:
- Some Axle stands with wheels to help move the chassis round in the garage (anyone got some good suggestions for where to get some?)
- Engine hoist (presume I should rent one of these?)
So what else won't I have thought of?
All help appreciated as usual,
Tom
In short, had a go in the Sigma powered car which was a great car but I didn't feel it was quite quick enough. Once I'd been in the Duratec car I was smitten. If anyone is on the hunt, the Supersport really is a terrific car for the road. I was surprised as I thought the suspension was likely to be too stiff but not a bit of it, perfect for the road.
So now that the purchase is made, what things am I going to need to assist with the build? As luck would have it, I was lucky enough to get £800 worth of Draper tools thrown in so I should be all good for spanners and the such like but what else am I going to need or would be useful to assist with the build?
So far my thoughts are:
- Some Axle stands with wheels to help move the chassis round in the garage (anyone got some good suggestions for where to get some?)
- Engine hoist (presume I should rent one of these?)
So what else won't I have thought of?
All help appreciated as usual,
Tom
Copper grease to put on all the bolts (apart from wheel nuts) to stop them seizing.
Loctite, torque wrenches if you haven't already got them.
The first fill package from Caterham parts.
A jerry can to fill it with petrol
Some sort of anti corrosion spray (I used Dinitrol 3125 cavity wax) to spray in all the rust traps.
Try a search on Blatchat for jobs people wished they had done as they built their car.
I would be dubious about trying to move a car on wheeled axle stands.
In fact, I didn't put the engine/gearbox in until I'd got the car on its wheels- if you do this remember to put the prop in the tunnel before you insert the engine
Loctite, torque wrenches if you haven't already got them.
The first fill package from Caterham parts.
A jerry can to fill it with petrol
Some sort of anti corrosion spray (I used Dinitrol 3125 cavity wax) to spray in all the rust traps.
Try a search on Blatchat for jobs people wished they had done as they built their car.
I would be dubious about trying to move a car on wheeled axle stands.
In fact, I didn't put the engine/gearbox in until I'd got the car on its wheels- if you do this remember to put the prop in the tunnel before you insert the engine
tomwoodis said:
In short, had a go in the Sigma powered car which was a great car but I didn't feel it was quite quick enough. Once I'd been in the Duratec car I was smitten. ,
Tom
That's interesting Tom, I am hoping to get 140 Supersport but have not yet driven one. The 0-60 speed between the 140 Sigma & 180 Duratec is only 0.1 but I suppose the torque is more, but according to Premier Power the Duratec is 15KG heavier. Did you notice the extra oomph in the mid range? The Duratec may also be easier to get more power out of in the future if you wanted it. Not that it matters but Caterham say the 140 has around 30 MPG I wonder what the Duratec does. Did you go to Caterham South? Mine will be 28K with weather gear, lowered floors etc so I don't think I would be able to get a Duratec if I wanted to - hit my max budget at 28K.Tom
Thanks for all the suggestions so far, some good ones, particularly like the suggestion of the divorce lawyer. I really hope that doesn't happen though, I'm due to be getting married in a months time!
For those that have used Dinitrol, would you suggest just using the cavity wax or would you use whatever product it is that they sell for undersealing the car too?
Also, Locktite, I notice there are several versions, which one is the one to go for?
For those that have used Dinitrol, would you suggest just using the cavity wax or would you use whatever product it is that they sell for undersealing the car too?
Also, Locktite, I notice there are several versions, which one is the one to go for?
Zagster said:
tomwoodis said:
In short, had a go in the Sigma powered car which was a great car but I didn't feel it was quite quick enough. Once I'd been in the Duratec car I was smitten. ,
Tom
That's interesting Tom, I am hoping to get 140 Supersport but have not yet driven one. The 0-60 speed between the 140 Sigma & 180 Duratec is only 0.1 but I suppose the torque is more, but according to Premier Power the Duratec is 15KG heavier. Did you notice the extra oomph in the mid range? The Duratec may also be easier to get more power out of in the future if you wanted it. Not that it matters but Caterham say the 140 has around 30 MPG I wonder what the Duratec does. Did you go to Caterham South? Mine will be 28K with weather gear, lowered floors etc so I don't think I would be able to get a Duratec if I wanted to - hit my max budget at 28K.Tom
I would almost ignore the 0.1 difference in 0-60 times, the fact is its meaningless. The duratec car is a lot quicker and I suspect if you tried you'd get well inside the 0-60 time of 4.8 if you wanted to, particularly if the car had either 7" or 8" rears to help get the power down. The main difference I noticed between the 2 was the Torque. You can drive the Duratec car very fast all of the time on the road without really having to rev it that hard (say 5k revs) so yes, you really notice the extra mid-range.
If it helps, this would be my summary of the two cars back to back:
The Sigma actually sounds better when you are really going for it. I think its probably the Cams they have used to get the 140hp out of it. It really is a great engine. Incidentally, it's quieter than the 150hp conversion that Caterham previously did for the sigma as it doesn't use roller barrel throttle bodies to make its power. You get less induction and more exhaust noise as a consequence. It's still a great noise though and a very tractable engine, the delivery is very linear all the way to the redline. The Duratec isn't quite as load on full chat which actually appeals to me in some ways as I will want to do some touring in the car and I think at partial throttle openings the Duractec will prove the quieter car.
The sigma engine needs to be revved to get the best out of it which will appeal massively to some people. You can also rev the Duratec in much the same way and with much the same result albeit you will be accelerating quite a bit faster. Where the duratec wins out for me is in its ability to pull from practically anywhere in the rev range. You'd accelerate swiftly from 30-35mph in 5th for instance if you put your foot down. You'd probably change down in the Sigma. Some would say thats absolutely fine and I'd agree. The fact is though if you are going to do some touring in it, it means you can be lazier with the car when you want to be and it will reward in other ways as a result.
In terms of the weight penalty of going from the Sigma to the Duratec. I didn't really notice any difference in the way the car behaved dynamically and to be honest once you are two up in the car and have added another 150kg to the Kerb weight, 15KG is nothing really. Fact is the extra grunt of the engine more then makes up for this. I don't know how the MPG figures compare between the two cars but unless you are pressing on I wouldn't have thought you'd notice much difference, I suspect they will both do about 30MPG.
Lastly, in terms of your budget, don't rule out a Duratec car just yet. I think your mind will ultimately be made up if you end needing to go for and SV model as that will defo push the budget up above £28k. If you can cope with an S3 chassis then it is (just!) possible to spec a SuperSport R to be £28k. You'd have to forgo a couple of the extras that I put on which pushed it slightly higher than this but I was very near to that figure. I really thought I was going to have to get an SV because I sat in a bunch of Second hand S3's they had at Caterham South and all of the peddle boxes felt odd to me. Their demonstrater's were set up much better though and I got along fine with the smaller car on the test drive. That's ultimately what allowed me to go for the Duratec car as I was able to avoid the £2,500 extra charge for the SV chassis. I'm building mine myself as well don't forget. Not sure if that was your plan too? If not then the Sigma car is really the only one in the frame if you intend to purchase new.
Hope that helps, feel free to get back to me if you have any other questions though, happy to help if I can.
I'd probably suggests getting down to Caterham South though if you are serious. I never intended to drive them back to back. It wasn't until I went out in the Sigma based car and felt a bit underwhelmed that I knew i needed to try the other car. They were exceptionally helpful in assisting me on the decision making and were very patient with me too!
-
Nice article in this months Low Flying (L7 club mag) on Premier Power Sigma upgrades... Essentially the 200bhp conversion is a corker, albeit expensive. Could be a consideration for the future when the budget allows?
Farlig said:
Nice article in this months Low Flying (L7 club mag) on Premier Power Sigma upgrades... Essentially the 200bhp conversion is a corker, albeit expensive. Could be a consideration for the future when the budget allows?
This was another consideration when I was comparing the two cars although its worth considering the following if you are going to buy the car new:1) The difference in price between the sigma engined car and the Duratec is £3.5k
2) I don't know the exact pricing of the Premier Power upgrades but I suspect that with the possible exception of the 155 upgrade, they will all be more than £3.5K ergo, if you think you will want more power from the outset then you're probably better stumping up the extra cash and going for the 2.0 litre car
3) Upgrading from the base 180hp to 210hp (R400 spec) wont cost mega bucks
I suppose you could argue that 200hp from a lighter 1.6 is more in keeping with the 7 ethos than a large engine but as I say, I couldn't tell it had a heavier engine up front.
Farlig said:
Nice article in this months Low Flying (L7 club mag) on Premier Power Sigma upgrades... Essentially the 200bhp conversion is a corker, albeit expensive. Could be a consideration for the future when the budget allows?
This was another consideration when I was comparing the two cars although its worth considering the following if you are going to buy the car new:1) The difference in price between the sigma engined car and the Duratec is £3.5k
2) I don't know the exact pricing of the Premier Power upgrades but I suspect that with the possible exception of the 155 upgrade, they will all be more than £3.5K ergo, if you think you will want more power from the outset then you're probably better stumping up the extra cash and going for the 2.0 litre car
3) Upgrading from the base 180hp to 210hp (R400 spec) wont cost mega bucks
I suppose you could argue that 200hp from a lighter 1.6 is more in keeping with the 7 ethos than a large engine but as I say, I couldn't tell it had a heavier engine up front.
Tom, firstly to answer your Dinitrol question. Cavity wax is designed to seep into box section crevices so I would use this where necessary. An extension nozzle can be bought for any hard to reach areas. The under-seal won't creep as much and is designed for areas that are more exposed that will be abraded by rain/mud etc. I intend to use the cavity wax first then cover this with the under-seal where possible.
I bought a new Defender a couple of years ago and went right through it, even hand painting the chassis with POR-15 etc. On occasion I now have brand new Defenders delivered to my house straight from Dealerships to be Dinitrolled etc in the same way. I started by helping DEF2.net forum members out but it turned out to be a nice side line. Top tip, it can spray/drip every where so mask/cover anything you don't want it plastered in and get it off as soon as you can! I may actually paint much of the chassis also with POR-15 and even take out a rivet or two to squirt Dinitrol into the chassis box/tube sections. They will be powder coated inside apparently but powder coating has little resistance to corrosion on it's own. Er it's not just being anal, I intend to keep mine for life so it is worth doing...
Secondly, many thanks for your in depth comparison of the 140 & 180. I have only driven the 125 BHP in SV form from Caterham South (live in Reigate) as similarly to you I couldn't get enough space in the pedal box to operate the controls properly. Interesting that you were OK in the S3 demonstrator, I have asked Callum for a drive in the 140 and will definitely take out the 180 now that I have also just read that the power to weight on the 140 is 270 BHP per Ton whilst the 180 is 340 per ton! Also had a good chat with Premier Power for options but Caterham seen against starter kits to give you that option.
I like the idea of low down grunt as I will be mostly touring and I will probably need an SV so it would push the extra weight along better. Keep us posted with your build etc, I will be about 4-5 months behind you in my build I should think once I have sold my yacht after the sailing season (or maybe earlier!).
Have you decided on colour, tyres etc. I think i would leave out the full weather gear and even the paint job to get a 180, can just get the bonnet sprayed locally! Don't need labour warranties, service plans etc, parts are under warranty anyway and I will service it myself. As an aside I was told if I wanted to add full weather gear now or later to let them know as they will put in the holes in the scuttle for the wipers and provide the model with a higher rear tub for the full hood. That bit seemed strange, thought they were all the same, Anthony also said you can get narrower or wider billett or leather seats depending on the model, also hadn't heard of this!
PS I have an engine hoist/torque wrench you can borrow if you are not too far away! Have a couple of cans of Dinitrol you can have also. Get yourself some ACF-50 for the inner panels, electrics, inside the headlight arms, in fact anywhere you don't want rot or water/moisture ingress! You use it rather than Dinitrol as it is clear so anywhere under the bonnet, inside headlights etc. It is an active substance that kills rust but becomes inactive after a while but still leaves a protective layer against moisture ingress so ideal for electrical contacts.
Chris
I bought a new Defender a couple of years ago and went right through it, even hand painting the chassis with POR-15 etc. On occasion I now have brand new Defenders delivered to my house straight from Dealerships to be Dinitrolled etc in the same way. I started by helping DEF2.net forum members out but it turned out to be a nice side line. Top tip, it can spray/drip every where so mask/cover anything you don't want it plastered in and get it off as soon as you can! I may actually paint much of the chassis also with POR-15 and even take out a rivet or two to squirt Dinitrol into the chassis box/tube sections. They will be powder coated inside apparently but powder coating has little resistance to corrosion on it's own. Er it's not just being anal, I intend to keep mine for life so it is worth doing...
Secondly, many thanks for your in depth comparison of the 140 & 180. I have only driven the 125 BHP in SV form from Caterham South (live in Reigate) as similarly to you I couldn't get enough space in the pedal box to operate the controls properly. Interesting that you were OK in the S3 demonstrator, I have asked Callum for a drive in the 140 and will definitely take out the 180 now that I have also just read that the power to weight on the 140 is 270 BHP per Ton whilst the 180 is 340 per ton! Also had a good chat with Premier Power for options but Caterham seen against starter kits to give you that option.
I like the idea of low down grunt as I will be mostly touring and I will probably need an SV so it would push the extra weight along better. Keep us posted with your build etc, I will be about 4-5 months behind you in my build I should think once I have sold my yacht after the sailing season (or maybe earlier!).
Have you decided on colour, tyres etc. I think i would leave out the full weather gear and even the paint job to get a 180, can just get the bonnet sprayed locally! Don't need labour warranties, service plans etc, parts are under warranty anyway and I will service it myself. As an aside I was told if I wanted to add full weather gear now or later to let them know as they will put in the holes in the scuttle for the wipers and provide the model with a higher rear tub for the full hood. That bit seemed strange, thought they were all the same, Anthony also said you can get narrower or wider billett or leather seats depending on the model, also hadn't heard of this!
PS I have an engine hoist/torque wrench you can borrow if you are not too far away! Have a couple of cans of Dinitrol you can have also. Get yourself some ACF-50 for the inner panels, electrics, inside the headlight arms, in fact anywhere you don't want rot or water/moisture ingress! You use it rather than Dinitrol as it is clear so anywhere under the bonnet, inside headlights etc. It is an active substance that kills rust but becomes inactive after a while but still leaves a protective layer against moisture ingress so ideal for electrical contacts.
Chris
Edited by Zagster on Sunday 12th May 17:52
Thanks for the extra info on the Dinitrol Chris. Not heard about POR-15, I did take a quick look online but there seems to be various ones. Which is the one to go for or should I just stick to the Dinitrol and ACF-15?
Many thanks also for the offer to borrow your engine hoist. I may well take you up on that offer nearer the time if thats OK. I'm based over in Guildford so certainly not a million miles away. I'm hoping I'm going to get a Torque wrench thrown in with the Tool kit if I'm lucky but stupidly I forgot to ask Caterham what tools were included in the kit. They did say everything needed though so here's hoping!
I saw your other post regarding wheel sizes. If it helps any, I originally rented an SV 125 from Caterham last year. It was that which ultimately led me to consider purchasing one. Its actually the white one they have for sale at the moment in the showroom if you've been down there recently. That particular car is a roadsport and, as you rightly pointed out in your other post, has 15" wheels on it as all of the SV's seemingly do down there at the moment. It rides fine on these on the whole but what I did notice having driven the 2 Super Sports this weekend was that both the cars felt better on the 13" wheels.
Callum, the salesman I was with was surprised at my comment on this as he says the Super Sport suspension is stiffer. I think this says a lot for how much better the 13" wheels probably are for our UK roads. Controversially, I went for the standard 15" wheels at the weekend but I think I might actually ask them if I can change my mind and go for the 13" rims instead. I think I'll go with the wider staggered set-up of 6" front 8" rear. It will cost an extra £240 but I think I might benefit from the extra grip initially. The car has the very narrow 13" wheels as standard which I think is what you have been referring to in your other post. They look very odd at the rear as they are so recessed into the arch but they are great fun when you drive it. Almost looks like a car on space saver wheels though! The wider 13" rims fill out the arch very nicely. You will be able to see the difference if you go down and look at the two SuperSport cars side by side.
In terms of the rest of the spec, I went for White (one of the base colours which strangely doesn't show on their price list) and will have it with a Matt black decal kit and stripes. I did go for the Full weather kit as it happens so if you were willing to ditch that then you could certainly get the R within your budget (albeit not an SV probably).
The holes in the scuttle I can understand but agree the rest sounds odd. I wasn't aware that they could do different width seats either but then I suppose the leather seats in an SV may well need to be a bit wider. What I can tell you is that the Composite seats come up at the sides so they can be a very tight squeeze if you have wide hips. I really didn't like them much so went with the standard leather seats. I too didn't go for the warranties etc.
Many thanks also for the offer to borrow your engine hoist. I may well take you up on that offer nearer the time if thats OK. I'm based over in Guildford so certainly not a million miles away. I'm hoping I'm going to get a Torque wrench thrown in with the Tool kit if I'm lucky but stupidly I forgot to ask Caterham what tools were included in the kit. They did say everything needed though so here's hoping!
I saw your other post regarding wheel sizes. If it helps any, I originally rented an SV 125 from Caterham last year. It was that which ultimately led me to consider purchasing one. Its actually the white one they have for sale at the moment in the showroom if you've been down there recently. That particular car is a roadsport and, as you rightly pointed out in your other post, has 15" wheels on it as all of the SV's seemingly do down there at the moment. It rides fine on these on the whole but what I did notice having driven the 2 Super Sports this weekend was that both the cars felt better on the 13" wheels.
Callum, the salesman I was with was surprised at my comment on this as he says the Super Sport suspension is stiffer. I think this says a lot for how much better the 13" wheels probably are for our UK roads. Controversially, I went for the standard 15" wheels at the weekend but I think I might actually ask them if I can change my mind and go for the 13" rims instead. I think I'll go with the wider staggered set-up of 6" front 8" rear. It will cost an extra £240 but I think I might benefit from the extra grip initially. The car has the very narrow 13" wheels as standard which I think is what you have been referring to in your other post. They look very odd at the rear as they are so recessed into the arch but they are great fun when you drive it. Almost looks like a car on space saver wheels though! The wider 13" rims fill out the arch very nicely. You will be able to see the difference if you go down and look at the two SuperSport cars side by side.
In terms of the rest of the spec, I went for White (one of the base colours which strangely doesn't show on their price list) and will have it with a Matt black decal kit and stripes. I did go for the Full weather kit as it happens so if you were willing to ditch that then you could certainly get the R within your budget (albeit not an SV probably).
The holes in the scuttle I can understand but agree the rest sounds odd. I wasn't aware that they could do different width seats either but then I suppose the leather seats in an SV may well need to be a bit wider. What I can tell you is that the Composite seats come up at the sides so they can be a very tight squeeze if you have wide hips. I really didn't like them much so went with the standard leather seats. I too didn't go for the warranties etc.
The link to POR-15 chassis paint is here Tom
http://www.frost.co.uk/brands/por15/por15-blackcot...
but I wouldn't bother with it, Dinitrol and ACF-50 will be enough. ACF-50 aerosol spray can be bought off E-bay, usually about £14 per can, one will be plenty.
Thanks for the tips on tyres, I'll have another look next time down. Didn't realise the white one was ex-hire. Great choice on the white and stripes by the way - smart, tasteful and visible.
Not sure how to give contact details on here so will ask Callum to pass my details on to you with regards to engine hoist etc. I'm sure you have done the same as me and read all the build blogs on the net - wish I had taken notes as I read them to remember the build tips and avoid half the aggro but there is plenty of time to get sorted... famous last words!
This was the last one I read with a few tips
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Caterham-7-Superspo...
Would be good to get hold of the 'popper tool' hopefully Caterham South might have one to borrow.
http://www.frost.co.uk/brands/por15/por15-blackcot...
but I wouldn't bother with it, Dinitrol and ACF-50 will be enough. ACF-50 aerosol spray can be bought off E-bay, usually about £14 per can, one will be plenty.
Thanks for the tips on tyres, I'll have another look next time down. Didn't realise the white one was ex-hire. Great choice on the white and stripes by the way - smart, tasteful and visible.
Not sure how to give contact details on here so will ask Callum to pass my details on to you with regards to engine hoist etc. I'm sure you have done the same as me and read all the build blogs on the net - wish I had taken notes as I read them to remember the build tips and avoid half the aggro but there is plenty of time to get sorted... famous last words!
This was the last one I read with a few tips
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Caterham-7-Superspo...
Would be good to get hold of the 'popper tool' hopefully Caterham South might have one to borrow.
Edited by Zagster on Sunday 12th May 19:24
I'm currently building mine on mobile axle stands from CJ Autos, they sell them on ebay as well. Has been very useful to be able
to move the car around in the garage.
Other things off the top of my head I would recommend are a decent mat to lie on especially if you have concrete floors and a mechanics
stool on wheels. Check bolts for fit before you actual use them to fix something, quite a few threads have powder coat etc in and its
much easier to clear first with just a bolt or tap rather than struggling when youre trying to actually fit a part.
Get a good soft face hammer and a biggish dead blow hammer, when you come to fit the diff grind a fairly big taper on the end of the top
bolt.
If you mainly working on it a weekends check you have all the parts, and nuts/bolts etc, you need for the next weekend, there will be some
missing
Read the manual a couple of times and search for build diaries online, there are a few for Superpsorts in the last couple of years.
and as others have said join the Lotus seven club, you will usually get replies to questiosn you have pretty quickly expecially at the weekend
and evenings when you cant ask CC>
to move the car around in the garage.
Other things off the top of my head I would recommend are a decent mat to lie on especially if you have concrete floors and a mechanics
stool on wheels. Check bolts for fit before you actual use them to fix something, quite a few threads have powder coat etc in and its
much easier to clear first with just a bolt or tap rather than struggling when youre trying to actually fit a part.
Get a good soft face hammer and a biggish dead blow hammer, when you come to fit the diff grind a fairly big taper on the end of the top
bolt.
If you mainly working on it a weekends check you have all the parts, and nuts/bolts etc, you need for the next weekend, there will be some
missing
Read the manual a couple of times and search for build diaries online, there are a few for Superpsorts in the last couple of years.
and as others have said join the Lotus seven club, you will usually get replies to questiosn you have pretty quickly expecially at the weekend
and evenings when you cant ask CC>
Cable ties and a few rolls of black electricians tape!
Not sure if they provide the fluids and if the prop shafts need greasing, check the grease nipple size if they do. A grease gun with a flexi hose or short angled poece maybe needed if it's a tight fit onto the nipple. Even big Land rover one's are tricky to get on to.
A solder iron maybe good for some of the more exposed contacts. Depends how the connections are made in the kit!
Not sure if they provide the fluids and if the prop shafts need greasing, check the grease nipple size if they do. A grease gun with a flexi hose or short angled poece maybe needed if it's a tight fit onto the nipple. Even big Land rover one's are tricky to get on to.
A solder iron maybe good for some of the more exposed contacts. Depends how the connections are made in the kit!
Edited by Zagster on Monday 13th May 07:21
Cheers Tom
Another bit of kit would be a camera to record the build so I don't have to make the same mistakes
Seriously though some detailed pics of the 180 at Caterham South might save a lot of head scratching come the time.
e.g. hoses, wiring, fasteners etc There seems to be some confusion of the routing especially of the coolonig hoses & wiring in some of the blogs. The manual isn't very good by all accounts and each model is different of course.
Another bit of kit would be a camera to record the build so I don't have to make the same mistakes
Seriously though some detailed pics of the 180 at Caterham South might save a lot of head scratching come the time.
e.g. hoses, wiring, fasteners etc There seems to be some confusion of the routing especially of the coolonig hoses & wiring in some of the blogs. The manual isn't very good by all accounts and each model is different of course.
Edited by Zagster on Monday 13th May 12:49
Premier Power, as featured in this months Low Flying are holding an open day this Sunday for a Caterham owners get together. On Display will be several of our customers road, track and race cars. There will also be a chance to sample the F175 and F200 Sigma upgrades with Passenger rides in two Caterhams. Interested visitors are asked to register for the event via the website, www.premierpowerengines.com
Look forward to seeing you there!!
Look forward to seeing you there!!
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