Discussion
I keep thinking about getting a fast 7 as a possible replacement for my Mk1 Porsche 996 GT3. I've had the GT3 for 7 years and mainly use it for UK track days plus the annual trip to Le Mans. I had a 1400 Super Sport about 9 years ago which was lacking in power, but I do at least know roughly what I'd be getting into in terms of the reduced practicality.
I'd prefer to buy used and would consider spending circa £30k. I have the R400 or 500 in mind and would appreciate some informed advice.
Is the 500 too much for road use, more fragile or significantly more expensive to run? Are they much quicker on track or is the 400 less of a handful and therefore much easier to exploit?
Are either civilized enough to drive to Spa or the Ring without making you too knackered to do a track day the next day?
Finally, where would you suggest I go to purchase? As someone not intimately familiar with the recent models the range of options is a bit intimidating.
Sorry for such a long post. Thanks in advance.
I'd prefer to buy used and would consider spending circa £30k. I have the R400 or 500 in mind and would appreciate some informed advice.
Is the 500 too much for road use, more fragile or significantly more expensive to run? Are they much quicker on track or is the 400 less of a handful and therefore much easier to exploit?
Are either civilized enough to drive to Spa or the Ring without making you too knackered to do a track day the next day?
Finally, where would you suggest I go to purchase? As someone not intimately familiar with the recent models the range of options is a bit intimidating.
Sorry for such a long post. Thanks in advance.
Crossflow Kid said:
andy tims said:
Is the 500 too much for road use,
In a word, yes.Never heard or read of anyone actually enjoying one on the open road.
I built my car to r500 spec ie 2.0 duratec/6 speed gearbox 3.6 Lsd but its running a bit more power than a stock R500 and as said I love it on the road, I cant see how a factory built car would be any worse as a road car. Depending on how much throttle you give my car it will be like driving say a 150bhp car, imho thats the advantage of a well specced and set up powerful n/a engine it gives you the best of all worlds , Ive owned dozens of 7"s with various engines from 90bhp to 300bhp and I much prefer having some grunt under my foot but I would say how much power you want/need is a very personal thing .
to answer the op"s questions from my experience
"Is the 500 too much for road use, more fragile or significantly more expensive to run? Are they much quicker on track or is the 400 less of a handful and therefore much easier to exploit"
if the question relates to the duratec engine, my car is fantastic on the road see above ^^^ I would say the extra power over an R400 is no more expensive to run , but it was a lot more expensive to build (hence the R500 is more expensive to buy over the R400) as the 500 spec engine has steel internals where as the 400 spec engine is a bog standard duratec with cams fitted, so the 500 spec engine should be less fragile as its built for the job. if you want to drop back to R400 power just short shift as a lot of the extra power comes higher in the revs from the 500s higher rev limiter , having an extra 50bhp it obviously is quicker on track, no quicker in the corners and you are braking earlier as approaching corners from a higher speed but will accelerate much quicker out of slower corners giving you a quicker top speed, over a lap on my local circuit I would say there is prob around 2 seconds in it that would vary track to track.
"Are either civilized enough to drive to Spa or the Ring without making you too knackered to do a track day the next day?"
no different to any 7 with a 6 speed box, 3.6 final drive and 13" wheels they are quite buzzy at cruising speed, fitting a 3.3 final drive I think would really help cruising fetching down the cruising revs and on places like the ring I would imagine it would give you an advantage plus the duratec has a lot of torque so i don't really think it would pain it so much at lower speeds either, in saying that I use my car all the time on the road and its fine .
"Finally, where would you suggest I go to purchase? As someone not intimately familiar with the recent models the range of options is a bit intimidating."
the Factory would be a good place to look, Blatchat and on the classifieds on here. PS. I have dropped you an email via your profile.
to answer the op"s questions from my experience
"Is the 500 too much for road use, more fragile or significantly more expensive to run? Are they much quicker on track or is the 400 less of a handful and therefore much easier to exploit"
if the question relates to the duratec engine, my car is fantastic on the road see above ^^^ I would say the extra power over an R400 is no more expensive to run , but it was a lot more expensive to build (hence the R500 is more expensive to buy over the R400) as the 500 spec engine has steel internals where as the 400 spec engine is a bog standard duratec with cams fitted, so the 500 spec engine should be less fragile as its built for the job. if you want to drop back to R400 power just short shift as a lot of the extra power comes higher in the revs from the 500s higher rev limiter , having an extra 50bhp it obviously is quicker on track, no quicker in the corners and you are braking earlier as approaching corners from a higher speed but will accelerate much quicker out of slower corners giving you a quicker top speed, over a lap on my local circuit I would say there is prob around 2 seconds in it that would vary track to track.
"Are either civilized enough to drive to Spa or the Ring without making you too knackered to do a track day the next day?"
no different to any 7 with a 6 speed box, 3.6 final drive and 13" wheels they are quite buzzy at cruising speed, fitting a 3.3 final drive I think would really help cruising fetching down the cruising revs and on places like the ring I would imagine it would give you an advantage plus the duratec has a lot of torque so i don't really think it would pain it so much at lower speeds either, in saying that I use my car all the time on the road and its fine .
"Finally, where would you suggest I go to purchase? As someone not intimately familiar with the recent models the range of options is a bit intimidating."
the Factory would be a good place to look, Blatchat and on the classifieds on here. PS. I have dropped you an email via your profile.
I can only speak as I have found. I have owned my R400 duratec for 5 years and have used it solely on the road.
I tried an R500 duratec at Caterham cars about 18 months ago just to see what all the hype was about and they were keen to take my R4 as they were struggling to source any good used ones and had several R5s in and were prepared to offer me a good deal.
As Jeff has said up to about 7000 rpm it felt almost identical to my R400 but then it just seemed to enter warp factor 2 for another 2000 odd rpm, and it felt very fast. For me therein lies the problem, I can exploit about 80% of the power in my R4 most of the time in the dry, and if I want some fun I can go beyond this.
In all honesty I found the R5 too much for the road and would think it could be very easy to bite off more than you can chew and get seriously out of shape. For me the R4 is perfect for the road with plenty of power in reserve if and when you need it.
I suppose it all depends on what you want to use your 7 for. If its mainly road use then an R4 would be ample, if mainly track use then the R5 would be awesome I would imagine. All in my opinion of course. Good luck
I tried an R500 duratec at Caterham cars about 18 months ago just to see what all the hype was about and they were keen to take my R4 as they were struggling to source any good used ones and had several R5s in and were prepared to offer me a good deal.
As Jeff has said up to about 7000 rpm it felt almost identical to my R400 but then it just seemed to enter warp factor 2 for another 2000 odd rpm, and it felt very fast. For me therein lies the problem, I can exploit about 80% of the power in my R4 most of the time in the dry, and if I want some fun I can go beyond this.
In all honesty I found the R5 too much for the road and would think it could be very easy to bite off more than you can chew and get seriously out of shape. For me the R4 is perfect for the road with plenty of power in reserve if and when you need it.
I suppose it all depends on what you want to use your 7 for. If its mainly road use then an R4 would be ample, if mainly track use then the R5 would be awesome I would imagine. All in my opinion of course. Good luck
I know I'm biased but what about considering a SuperSport R?
It's got the Duratec so plenty of grunt but also benefits from what I feel is a nice road setup of 5 speed box with a 3.9 diff ratio.
This means plenty of poke but a bit less buzzy on longer trips. An upgrade to R400 power at a later date is a simple change and not drastically expensive either.
Only downside i see is that you are unlikely to get one second hand yet. If you were willing to buy new though and build it yourself as I have just done then you could buy new at your budget.
Tom
It's got the Duratec so plenty of grunt but also benefits from what I feel is a nice road setup of 5 speed box with a 3.9 diff ratio.
This means plenty of poke but a bit less buzzy on longer trips. An upgrade to R400 power at a later date is a simple change and not drastically expensive either.
Only downside i see is that you are unlikely to get one second hand yet. If you were willing to buy new though and build it yourself as I have just done then you could buy new at your budget.
Tom
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