DB9 to Caterham?
Discussion
Hi all,
I recently needed to sell my pride and joy (DB9) due to a massive hike in mileage being done and the lack of use it was getting. I've got a sensible TT as my daily driver now but have always fancied something for the weekends and track.
I've not got the appetite to spend tons on a toy at the moment but I think up to £16k is doable. I am quite performance orientated but I'm more worried about getting into something that isn't upgradeable in the future.
I think a sigma 140 Supersport would be my ideal choice however I acknowledge that on that budget I'd struggle. I understand the path if getting the 125 road sport then going 140 later, but I'm less sure of what can be done with the K series models? Can a 120bhp K be easily upgraded without a major overhaul? Is this a sensible option?
I hesitate with the K because of HGF and because I tend to drive my cars rather than polish them and dare I say it I'm occasionally a bit naughty with letting them warm up. (I know, sorry).
I'd really appreciate any thoughts you guys might have on this?
I recently needed to sell my pride and joy (DB9) due to a massive hike in mileage being done and the lack of use it was getting. I've got a sensible TT as my daily driver now but have always fancied something for the weekends and track.
I've not got the appetite to spend tons on a toy at the moment but I think up to £16k is doable. I am quite performance orientated but I'm more worried about getting into something that isn't upgradeable in the future.
I think a sigma 140 Supersport would be my ideal choice however I acknowledge that on that budget I'd struggle. I understand the path if getting the 125 road sport then going 140 later, but I'm less sure of what can be done with the K series models? Can a 120bhp K be easily upgraded without a major overhaul? Is this a sensible option?
I hesitate with the K because of HGF and because I tend to drive my cars rather than polish them and dare I say it I'm occasionally a bit naughty with letting them warm up. (I know, sorry).
I'd really appreciate any thoughts you guys might have on this?
To be honest, it depends what power you would to achieve at the end of the day. Both the k series and the Sigma can be upgraded reasonably easily now. The k series has been around for ages and so tuning for that engine is more well trodden path.
For all the advice you would ever need and an idea on pricing a k series upgrade to get you to various power levels, please refer to Daves excellent website;
linky
On the other hand, if the Sigma appeals more then the likes of Premier Power are making great in roads into tuning this engine. They have a range of options up to 200bhp.
With your particular budget (OK perhaps more like 18k) you might well find a good Supersport 140 which I have to say is a cracking car. If )16k really is the limit then I'd be looking at a K series car instead. All variants are tuneable but I'd take the 1.8 out of preference given its slightly better torque and ability, ultimately to achieve better overall BHP when you want to upgrade it.
Lots of scare stories out there about the k series head gasket failures. Sure, they do fail from time to time but they are put right easily enough and if you go to someone who knows what they are doing then you can reduce the chances of a repeat failure. A few hundred quid set aside somewhere in case the worst does happen might be an idea. What I will say though is that no car should be driven from cold as you well know. In the K series in particular though this is a complete no no. If I've understood it correctly, the bolts that hold the head on dont achieve the correct tension until the head has heated up fully ergo, until up to temp the head doesn't seat as well as it should and therefore HGF can be more likely. If you really honestly can't wait for the car to warm up then perhaps the K series isn't the car for you. Certainly no issues upgrading it though as I've said.
Tom
For all the advice you would ever need and an idea on pricing a k series upgrade to get you to various power levels, please refer to Daves excellent website;
linky
On the other hand, if the Sigma appeals more then the likes of Premier Power are making great in roads into tuning this engine. They have a range of options up to 200bhp.
With your particular budget (OK perhaps more like 18k) you might well find a good Supersport 140 which I have to say is a cracking car. If )16k really is the limit then I'd be looking at a K series car instead. All variants are tuneable but I'd take the 1.8 out of preference given its slightly better torque and ability, ultimately to achieve better overall BHP when you want to upgrade it.
Lots of scare stories out there about the k series head gasket failures. Sure, they do fail from time to time but they are put right easily enough and if you go to someone who knows what they are doing then you can reduce the chances of a repeat failure. A few hundred quid set aside somewhere in case the worst does happen might be an idea. What I will say though is that no car should be driven from cold as you well know. In the K series in particular though this is a complete no no. If I've understood it correctly, the bolts that hold the head on dont achieve the correct tension until the head has heated up fully ergo, until up to temp the head doesn't seat as well as it should and therefore HGF can be more likely. If you really honestly can't wait for the car to warm up then perhaps the K series isn't the car for you. Certainly no issues upgrading it though as I've said.
Tom
If you want more power, it's much cheaper to buy one someone has upgraded than to have to pay for it yourself.
If it was built as an R300 or R400 they are worth a lot more, so look for a K series that has been tuned by a well known engine builder and is owned by someone who looks after it, you'll soon tell by looking underneath and in the engine bay.
I have a Sigma 125 and love it, sounds pretty good too
but it probably wouldn't be quick enough for you and it's £2000 to get an extra 15bhp from caterham and substantially more than that to get 155bhp from Premier.
If it was built as an R300 or R400 they are worth a lot more, so look for a K series that has been tuned by a well known engine builder and is owned by someone who looks after it, you'll soon tell by looking underneath and in the engine bay.
I have a Sigma 125 and love it, sounds pretty good too
but it probably wouldn't be quick enough for you and it's £2000 to get an extra 15bhp from caterham and substantially more than that to get 155bhp from Premier.Thanks for the replies guys, it would seem my concerns regarding the K might be misplaced (so long as I treat it nicely). In the end I think the best thing for me to do is to drive them and see what power level and delivery I like the best.
I've received marital signoff, so I'll be in the market soon.
I've received marital signoff, so I'll be in the market soon.
Top things on my mind currently are:
- How comfortable are tillets (i've a small/medium frame)
- Are lowered floors of any benefit/hindrance to me given I'm only 5'8.
- Are the Type 9 gearbox ratios silly as I've been told by some?
- Are the default Caterham 4-point harnesses uncomfortable compared to other brands?
- What are the differences between composite seats and tillets?
- How comfortable are tillets (i've a small/medium frame)
- Are lowered floors of any benefit/hindrance to me given I'm only 5'8.
- Are the Type 9 gearbox ratios silly as I've been told by some?
- Are the default Caterham 4-point harnesses uncomfortable compared to other brands?
- What are the differences between composite seats and tillets?
kalibre46 said:
Top things on my mind currently are:
- How comfortable are tillets (i've a small/medium frame)
- Are lowered floors of any benefit/hindrance to me given I'm only 5'8.
- Are the Type 9 gearbox ratios silly as I've been told by some?
- Are the default Caterham 4-point harnesses uncomfortable compared to other brands?
- What are the differences between composite seats and tillets?
- Tillets are reputed to be very comfortable.- How comfortable are tillets (i've a small/medium frame)
- Are lowered floors of any benefit/hindrance to me given I'm only 5'8.
- Are the Type 9 gearbox ratios silly as I've been told by some?
- Are the default Caterham 4-point harnesses uncomfortable compared to other brands?
- What are the differences between composite seats and tillets?
- I doubt the lowered floors are any benefit to you but no hindrance either - I'm a few inches taller, skinny and don't have the lowered floor.
- 1st is very short but 2nd-5th are fine - you can get them re-ratio'd too if you feel like it (it's on my wishlist for longer 1st and 2nd gears).
- Caterham 4 pointers are comfortable - easily retro-fitted yourself if you happen to find a car with inertia reel belts fitted too.
- Don't know.
ewenm said:
- Tillets are reputed to be very comfortable.
- I doubt the lowered floors are any benefit to you but no hindrance either - I'm a few inches taller, skinny and don't have the lowered floor.
- 1st is very short but 2nd-5th are fine - you can get them re-ratio'd too if you feel like it (it's on my wishlist for longer 1st and 2nd gears).
- Caterham 4 pointers are comfortable - easily retro-fitted yourself if you happen to find a car with inertia reel belts fitted too.
- Don't know.
- I have the glass fibre Tillets and drove 1400 miles in three days without any aches or pains - I doubt the lowered floors are any benefit to you but no hindrance either - I'm a few inches taller, skinny and don't have the lowered floor.
- 1st is very short but 2nd-5th are fine - you can get them re-ratio'd too if you feel like it (it's on my wishlist for longer 1st and 2nd gears).
- Caterham 4 pointers are comfortable - easily retro-fitted yourself if you happen to find a car with inertia reel belts fitted too.
- Don't know.
- I'm 6 ft and didn't like the lowered floors as I found the centre tunnel was too high, but it's a personal choice
- I agree, the 5 speed is a nice box and possibly more reliable than the 6. First is too low, but it isn't so much of a problem that I'm planning on taking my gearbox out unless it goes wrong!
- When looking at the Caterham belts it is worth spending more on the quick release ones with four separate straps, they are much easier to put on.
- As I understand it all the Caterham plastic seats are made by Tillet. The cheaper composite seats are glass fibre and very good and the carbon Kevlar ones are lighter but much more expensive and possible more fragile.
I hope this helps
kalibre46 said:
Top things on my mind currently are:
- How comfortable are tillets (i've a small/medium frame)
- Are lowered floors of any benefit/hindrance to me given I'm only 5'8.
- Are the Type 9 gearbox ratios silly as I've been told by some?
- Are the default Caterham 4-point harnesses uncomfortable compared to other brands?
- What are the differences between composite seats and tillets?
Tillets: No idea, never tried them, but the standard leather seats have been great for me over the last year.- How comfortable are tillets (i've a small/medium frame)
- Are lowered floors of any benefit/hindrance to me given I'm only 5'8.
- Are the Type 9 gearbox ratios silly as I've been told by some?
- Are the default Caterham 4-point harnesses uncomfortable compared to other brands?
- What are the differences between composite seats and tillets?
Lowered Floors: I'm 5'8" and I really like them. I wouldn't want to be any higher.
Depends on the box? The 6 is close ratio and can be a pain on motorways, but I just put the earplugs in anyway.
Harnesses are very comfortable, if a bit of a hassle to adjust for different people.
Same thing? Caterham used Tillet branded seats for their composites.
Thanks everyone for the useful answers. I feel like I'm homing in my final spec.
Still torn between the K-120 and S-125 as a base engine though, I'm looking at an ex-acedemy car if I want to get into a Sigma within the budget. The proof is in the pudding as they say, so I'll be driving them both shortly to see what I think.
Still torn between the K-120 and S-125 as a base engine though, I'm looking at an ex-acedemy car if I want to get into a Sigma within the budget. The proof is in the pudding as they say, so I'll be driving them both shortly to see what I think.
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