Discussion
No offense intended just a query from a would be owner who's waiting for funds to match aspirations :-)
I fell for the 7 back in the early 90's when I sat in one at the Motor Show, not only was it like slipping on a comfy old pair of trainers, they where the only stand where the promo video had the car sliding and at the end jumping the bridge at Millbrook, that appealed to a young scubadude!
I've kept a watching brief ever since, my assumption was always that it was a car for life purchase and the price should be a secondary concern. I've also assumed part of the appeal was you could build it yourself in a clean format, no need to spend hours in the kitchen buffing Cortina uprights or trying to resurrect Marina axles :-)
From reading on this forum it would appear that most people buy them built and upgrade/move on regularly, I take this from the comments about the recent 160 "you could buy a second hand XYZ for that"
I suppose not everyone has the time, space and inclination to build, all things that can be solved with Cash and new/2nd hand cars being available.
Anyone know what percentage are built as kits now?
Do any of the assembled buyers wish they'd gone the kit route? (Any of the builders wish they'd bought it already finished? :-)
(FWIW After years of moving I finally have a huge garage, the final piece of the puzzle is to wait for my son to be old enough to get something out of helping build one...)
I fell for the 7 back in the early 90's when I sat in one at the Motor Show, not only was it like slipping on a comfy old pair of trainers, they where the only stand where the promo video had the car sliding and at the end jumping the bridge at Millbrook, that appealed to a young scubadude!
I've kept a watching brief ever since, my assumption was always that it was a car for life purchase and the price should be a secondary concern. I've also assumed part of the appeal was you could build it yourself in a clean format, no need to spend hours in the kitchen buffing Cortina uprights or trying to resurrect Marina axles :-)
From reading on this forum it would appear that most people buy them built and upgrade/move on regularly, I take this from the comments about the recent 160 "you could buy a second hand XYZ for that"
I suppose not everyone has the time, space and inclination to build, all things that can be solved with Cash and new/2nd hand cars being available.
Anyone know what percentage are built as kits now?
Do any of the assembled buyers wish they'd gone the kit route? (Any of the builders wish they'd bought it already finished? :-)
(FWIW After years of moving I finally have a huge garage, the final piece of the puzzle is to wait for my son to be old enough to get something out of helping build one...)
I bought a finished good quality Caterham Supersport and I would absolutely say build it yourself. The background knowledge you would gain from it would absolutely help you troubleshoot any issue. No Caterham is alike (always room for changing) and DCL who built his own found it time to get up to speed when he helped me (R400 v's Supersport).
If i did it again would absolutely bite bullet and build myself as it aint like owning an Audi
Sure it would be painful as not knowing anything about cars (perhaps an unwise choice for a car purchase heh) but well well worth it.
Plus you would know how good/badly it was built
If i did it again would absolutely bite bullet and build myself as it aint like owning an Audi
Sure it would be painful as not knowing anything about cars (perhaps an unwise choice for a car purchase heh) but well well worth it. Plus you would know how good/badly it was built
I agree with Andy, given you have the space to do so, you should definitely build yourself.
I bought mine used and had a great deal on it. It would have cost me a lot more to build a similarly specced car, but the experience would have been worth it. I don't have the garage space for a build though, so that may be a thing to do in the future. You'll also save yourself some servicing costs if you know what you're doing. I wish I had the knowledge and space to fix my car up!
I bought mine used and had a great deal on it. It would have cost me a lot more to build a similarly specced car, but the experience would have been worth it. I don't have the garage space for a build though, so that may be a thing to do in the future. You'll also save yourself some servicing costs if you know what you're doing. I wish I had the knowledge and space to fix my car up!
I'm currently building one and I would recommend building it! It can be frustrating at times (Caterham Build Manual, but it is good fun. Well worth doing.
Take a look at my blog www.caterham-capers.blogspot.co.uk
Take a look at my blog www.caterham-capers.blogspot.co.uk
The Caterham is a desirable car in its own right and they do change hands for the pleasure of ownership, and not just for the challenge of building them. But, for some, building the car is an important part of the Caterham experience. I built my R400 with my 16 year old son, and six years on, we're every bit as keen as we were on day one - the only difference now is that I have to compete with my son to drive it 
.
.I built mine, and I would say definitely build it yourself if you can afford it 
It is possible to improve quite a lot of things like applying anti corrosion spray and using copperslip on bolts so they will come apart in the future.
IVA is a pain especially if you find it hard to take days off during the week at short notice, but Caterham will put your car through IVA for you, and this is the route I took. I had Caterham pick up my finished car, take it to the factory for the post build check and then present it for IVA, but they charge £450 on top of the £425 IVA test fee
So don't expect to save that much building yourself.
The biggest problem with building yourself is the price if you like options and a powerful engine.
I have a Roadsport 125 which with paint, tillet seats and harnesses was just under £20K four years ago.
When you can buy R300 performance with a K series engine for substantially less than that, I can see why a lot of people buy second hand.
I should think Supersport R is well over £30K with a few options now.
It is possible to improve quite a lot of things like applying anti corrosion spray and using copperslip on bolts so they will come apart in the future.
IVA is a pain especially if you find it hard to take days off during the week at short notice, but Caterham will put your car through IVA for you, and this is the route I took. I had Caterham pick up my finished car, take it to the factory for the post build check and then present it for IVA, but they charge £450 on top of the £425 IVA test fee
So don't expect to save that much building yourself.The biggest problem with building yourself is the price if you like options and a powerful engine.
I have a Roadsport 125 which with paint, tillet seats and harnesses was just under £20K four years ago.
When you can buy R300 performance with a K series engine for substantially less than that, I can see why a lot of people buy second hand.
I should think Supersport R is well over £30K with a few options now.
If you have the space and the time, definitely build it. For one thing you'll know the car inside out so will be able to tinker and fettle to your hearts content, but more importantly the sense of achievement the first time you take it out for a drive is unbeatable. Unless a wheel falls off...
Build diary available at http://uremaw.tumbler.com
Scott
Build diary available at http://uremaw.tumbler.com
Scott
I'll echo what's already been said. If you've got the space then build it yourself, it's a great experience.
Finished building mine last summer. Specced up it was £30k before the additional IVA fees etc so it didn't really cost me any less than a ready built one by the end. That wasn't why I did it though. They aren't a particularly complicated car granted but at the same time, knowing exactly how it goes together had got to be beneficial for the future from a troubleshooting perspective.
I loved the experience and would defo do it again. Just go in with your eyes open, you aren't really saving anything by building it yourself despite what the Caterham salesman might tell you
If your interested, my trials and tribulations during the build are documented here:
http://caterhamssr.blogspot.com
Finished building mine last summer. Specced up it was £30k before the additional IVA fees etc so it didn't really cost me any less than a ready built one by the end. That wasn't why I did it though. They aren't a particularly complicated car granted but at the same time, knowing exactly how it goes together had got to be beneficial for the future from a troubleshooting perspective.
I loved the experience and would defo do it again. Just go in with your eyes open, you aren't really saving anything by building it yourself despite what the Caterham salesman might tell you
If your interested, my trials and tribulations during the build are documented here:
http://caterhamssr.blogspot.com
As Tom says, building a new car yourself is not a cost-saving exercise, even before you cost in the value of your time, compared to buying one built by Caterham.
For me, the order of priority would be: build, buy used and then buy new.
Whilst the cars hold their value, you'll get more bangs for your buck used but for me, like many above, I had the time, expertise and desire (probably my major motivator for purchase!) to build one and loved doing so!
For me, the order of priority would be: build, buy used and then buy new.
Whilst the cars hold their value, you'll get more bangs for your buck used but for me, like many above, I had the time, expertise and desire (probably my major motivator for purchase!) to build one and loved doing so!
Cheers all,
I never meant to imply that someone might build to save money... not sure any Caterham based choice would be wise based purely on the numerical value! :-)
Thanks for the links to a few more build logs, I've read some in the past... I do find it 'interesting' that every single one has fairly considerable shortages and incorrect parts, not to mention the infamous vagueness of the assembly manual. I realise they are more complex but if LEGO can get the right bits in 99/100 boxes you'd think Caterham could manage 50%.
As mentioned I have a while yet before I start, this year I plan to paint the inside of the garage- that's my next tiny step closer! Currently the floor is a chameleon grey that automatically matches anything you drop, I think building a car will justify Mclaren-esqu white ;-)
I just have to look forward to choosing the model when the time comes, who knows what they'll be offering by then!
I never meant to imply that someone might build to save money... not sure any Caterham based choice would be wise based purely on the numerical value! :-)
Thanks for the links to a few more build logs, I've read some in the past... I do find it 'interesting' that every single one has fairly considerable shortages and incorrect parts, not to mention the infamous vagueness of the assembly manual. I realise they are more complex but if LEGO can get the right bits in 99/100 boxes you'd think Caterham could manage 50%.
As mentioned I have a while yet before I start, this year I plan to paint the inside of the garage- that's my next tiny step closer! Currently the floor is a chameleon grey that automatically matches anything you drop, I think building a car will justify Mclaren-esqu white ;-)
I just have to look forward to choosing the model when the time comes, who knows what they'll be offering by then!
I bought second-hand (factory built). I didn't have a garage or off-street parking nor did I have the time to dedicate to a build. If buying now I might build as the new challenge would be interesting and it would give me a much better understanding of the car so I could sort out problems myself. However, I'm still restricted by no garage and little time, so those would have to be resolved first. I don't think either buying or building is "best", it's whatever the individual prefers (and can afford in cost and time) to do.
I've had mine since 2000 and it has been upgraded a bit. One of the difficulties is that they are so different to "normal" cars that it is hard to know what you want (and don't want) on the car before you've lived with one for a while. Back in 2000 I had a budget and I wanted a Caterham, it wasn't much more sophisticated a buying process than that. Nowadays I'd probably be able to spec exactly the car that best fitted my needs, back then I had much less knowledge and much less experience. Whether that car was factory built or self built would be dependent on time, money, garage, commitments etc.
I've had mine since 2000 and it has been upgraded a bit. One of the difficulties is that they are so different to "normal" cars that it is hard to know what you want (and don't want) on the car before you've lived with one for a while. Back in 2000 I had a budget and I wanted a Caterham, it wasn't much more sophisticated a buying process than that. Nowadays I'd probably be able to spec exactly the car that best fitted my needs, back then I had much less knowledge and much less experience. Whether that car was factory built or self built would be dependent on time, money, garage, commitments etc.
The 1st I bought 2nd hand... ~ 3 years old from Caterham...I had the funds..but not enough to buy new for the spec I wanted...plus I was concerned about space / time commitment to build one...just couldn't wait...and wanted the relative risk free option of the dealer choice (even though I was paying dealer prices which limited the choice from the funds)
Had the car for 10 years and after a couple of years ..serviced myself. So long as you don't go for something high up the spec ladder....they are relatively simple mechanical things (for a numpty like me)...and with Pistonheads or Blatchat to help, even pretend mechanics like myself can have a go at most things and you can learn quickly if you are willing to give it a go (and haven't built it :-))
I've since upgraded...and the same equation applied...I wanted an R400...but couldn't afford a new one....so I hunted around for a good 2 year old and found "my" car as a private sale...with 10 years under my belt I was confident I could spot any real big problems...and small problems are usually low cost and easy to fix.
It's a balance...do you REALLY want to experience the build and get a new car ? Fine...wait till you have the funds and away you go. On the other hand, you could be driving around in a tidy 2nd hand car from Spring this year....tinker and play and upgrade as you go along whilst enjoying the 7 experience of driving it.
There is no right or wrong. If you've really hankered after the build experience and the new car....that's fine...but I'd rather be driving around for those couple of extra years it takes to get the funds :-). Horses for courses.
Had the car for 10 years and after a couple of years ..serviced myself. So long as you don't go for something high up the spec ladder....they are relatively simple mechanical things (for a numpty like me)...and with Pistonheads or Blatchat to help, even pretend mechanics like myself can have a go at most things and you can learn quickly if you are willing to give it a go (and haven't built it :-))
I've since upgraded...and the same equation applied...I wanted an R400...but couldn't afford a new one....so I hunted around for a good 2 year old and found "my" car as a private sale...with 10 years under my belt I was confident I could spot any real big problems...and small problems are usually low cost and easy to fix.
It's a balance...do you REALLY want to experience the build and get a new car ? Fine...wait till you have the funds and away you go. On the other hand, you could be driving around in a tidy 2nd hand car from Spring this year....tinker and play and upgrade as you go along whilst enjoying the 7 experience of driving it.
There is no right or wrong. If you've really hankered after the build experience and the new car....that's fine...but I'd rather be driving around for those couple of extra years it takes to get the funds :-). Horses for courses.
Edited by Steve Campbell on Thursday 16th January 16:42
I bought mine used for pretty much the same reasons as Steve above.
Mine cost me £20,000 from Caterham South. It was factory built and had 5000 miles on the clock. When I priced it up it would had been at least 10k more new.
I can see the appeal of building it yourself but I work shifts, have 2 young kids and live in a modern house where the garage isn't big enough to work around the car so buying a built car was the way forward for me.
Mine cost me £20,000 from Caterham South. It was factory built and had 5000 miles on the clock. When I priced it up it would had been at least 10k more new.
I can see the appeal of building it yourself but I work shifts, have 2 young kids and live in a modern house where the garage isn't big enough to work around the car so buying a built car was the way forward for me.
Caterham ownership is a broad church; I am a mechanical numpty who might have been able to build a car with lots of help (ie I'd make the tea) but as DIY in any form bores me beyond witless I didn't even consider kit form for the new Caterham I bought . Every aspect of Seven ownership has its zealots- aeroscreen warriors, polishers , sprinters and tourers, service yourself , get somebody else to do it . My advice would be to enjoy whatever aspect most appeals and don't get hung up if you don't /can't self build.
I've built 2 now, the first was a little frustrating (due to shortages and poor build manual) but still quite a fun experience as the problems were just 'challenges' along the way. The 2nd one I really didn't enjoy at all - I thought I knew what I was in for having done it before, but the shortages, wrong parts, rubbish instructions, things that didn't fit etc just made me more and more grumpy this time. I think if you were building one for the first time you'd probably be a bit more tolerant as the anticipation and excitement keeps you going - but I wouldn't build one again. There isn't much of a cost saving so only build one if it is something you want to do - and as others have said it is a good way to learn your way around the car if that's what you want.
Going to go against the grain here, although I don't know build time of caterham
Thought I could take on Ultima build, been buying part built. Enthusiasm and free time restrictions meant I managed about 50 hrs build time before losing interest / time to complete.
If you have the time to complete, then yes can be a satisfying experience, otherwise buy a completed car and do the servicing and any upgrades yourself to get the kick
Thought I could take on Ultima build, been buying part built. Enthusiasm and free time restrictions meant I managed about 50 hrs build time before losing interest / time to complete.
If you have the time to complete, then yes can be a satisfying experience, otherwise buy a completed car and do the servicing and any upgrades yourself to get the kick
Edited by Dave211 on Friday 17th January 22:45
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