Crash damage limitation
Discussion
I am seeking advice for a tricky situation:
Last week I crashed my recently purchased 7 and it is now with a Caterham specialist garage for a repair estimate, which has been roughly estimated at £7k, being approx. 50% of it’s previous value.
In the meantime my insurers ‘claims company’ have written to me advising they believe, based on what I told them about the accident, that the car is uneconomical to repair (the chassis is bent and it needs a completely new rear end). They do not yet have the repair estimate.
I have not previously been in this position. Although it is perhaps too early to be thinking this way, my question is, based on the premise that the insurers will write it off: -
(a)am I better to cut my losses, accept it as a write-off, settle with the insurers and buy another 7,
or
(b)try and buy it off the insurers and have it repaired with the balance of the insurance payout (assuming there is enough money left to do this)?
My concerns are:
1.With (a): what is my best way to maximise the settlement?
2.With (b): is it unrealistic to think the car will be as good as it was before the crash?
3.With (b): what will be the insurance value of the repaired car compared to the pre-damaged value?
4.With (b): what happens when I come to sell it – how do I value it then?
I’m looking to your experience to assist me with this – it will be much appreciated.
Many thanks.
Last week I crashed my recently purchased 7 and it is now with a Caterham specialist garage for a repair estimate, which has been roughly estimated at £7k, being approx. 50% of it’s previous value.
In the meantime my insurers ‘claims company’ have written to me advising they believe, based on what I told them about the accident, that the car is uneconomical to repair (the chassis is bent and it needs a completely new rear end). They do not yet have the repair estimate.
I have not previously been in this position. Although it is perhaps too early to be thinking this way, my question is, based on the premise that the insurers will write it off: -
(a)am I better to cut my losses, accept it as a write-off, settle with the insurers and buy another 7,
or
(b)try and buy it off the insurers and have it repaired with the balance of the insurance payout (assuming there is enough money left to do this)?
My concerns are:
1.With (a): what is my best way to maximise the settlement?
2.With (b): is it unrealistic to think the car will be as good as it was before the crash?
3.With (b): what will be the insurance value of the repaired car compared to the pre-damaged value?
4.With (b): what happens when I come to sell it – how do I value it then?
I’m looking to your experience to assist me with this – it will be much appreciated.
Many thanks.
Judging by what you have said, you already have a good grasp of the situation, and the likely outcome. IMHO take the money and run. But there's no reason why a properly repaired car won't be as good a new one - it's just that the cat C or D history will always raise eyebrows and financially it is unlikely to make a return on your outlay to repair it. One possibility would be to make it a track car and just use it for trackdays.
Edited by DCL on Wednesday 12th March 21:17
50 odd years ago (much about me is odd) I wrote of my Lotus Super Seven Twin Cam rolling end over end in a ploughed field. Nearly wrote myself off too. Never forgotten that car or that accident and to this day, still the most fun on wheels I have ever had despite having umpteen racers since. I can therefore understand how you feel. I would accept the the money and get a different car. I do not think major chassis repairs on lightweight racers are a good idea. And Cat C or D insurance write offs are never popular and that classification will always be on the car. Move on I think, is the best option.
At 50% of value, that's economically repairable.
Write off's start at around 60%. Trust me if the insurers can get away with a repair they will do. Sounds like the claims company as you say haven't had the estimate and are guessing it's a write off. Have you considered asking the repairers about a contract repair if it is touch and go total loss and you do decide to keep it?
Write off's start at around 60%. Trust me if the insurers can get away with a repair they will do. Sounds like the claims company as you say haven't had the estimate and are guessing it's a write off. Have you considered asking the repairers about a contract repair if it is touch and go total loss and you do decide to keep it?
An agreed repair cost prior to work commencing that will not increase regardless of any unforeseen damage/overlooked replacement parts. Some body shops won't do them but there are those that will.
It can be a good way for somebody who is intent on keeping a car to prevent it from being categorised as a total loss. I do though believe in this case your car is repairable. I'm assuming it hasn't had an independent inspection yet?
It can be a good way for somebody who is intent on keeping a car to prevent it from being categorised as a total loss. I do though believe in this case your car is repairable. I'm assuming it hasn't had an independent inspection yet?
Assuming it doesn't go on the Cat register (which would impair resale value), and the car goes to Arch for its chassis repair (so you know it's been done properly), I would have no qualms getting the car repaired. It will be as good as new (from first hand experience - long front needed on a 7 a while ago).
Thanks for the additional info. - very helpful. It gives me some confidence.
As to your question, it is due a full independent inspection by Phoenix Motorsport in Accrington. I will be speaking to them sometime tomorrow and will ask for a copy of the report when they prepare it. Are there any pertinent and leading questions I should be asking them, apart from about contract repairs?
The claims company have requested copies of the V5, MOT cert, Driving Licence, purchase invoice, service history etc, all of which I intend supplying and I'll report on what transpires.
As to your question, it is due a full independent inspection by Phoenix Motorsport in Accrington. I will be speaking to them sometime tomorrow and will ask for a copy of the report when they prepare it. Are there any pertinent and leading questions I should be asking them, apart from about contract repairs?
The claims company have requested copies of the V5, MOT cert, Driving Licence, purchase invoice, service history etc, all of which I intend supplying and I'll report on what transpires.
Boylston said:
There is such a massive benefit on having a brazed rather than welded space frame.
Out of curiosity, are new Caterhams with the welded chassis that much more difficult to repair? I always assumed the sections could be replaced with welded ones in the same way as on a brazed chassis?Cheers DCL, that sounds quite sensible.
To the OP:
I'm currently going through an insurance claim on my Megane after someone hit me on a roundabout when they decided to join without looking or braking.
Had a reasonable amount of panel damage (passenger door and rear quarter) plus interior damage thanks to the impact setting off the side curtain airbags. The insurance company authorised a a repair, yet 4 months later I'm still without the car. Personally, if you can get a good deal, just let them write it off and buy a new car. You'll get it replaced quicker and with less hassle.
Also, their repair estimates were initially 6k, but as far as I'm aware, it's cost 8k already. Estimates usually go up, not down, so be aware of this if you decide to push for a repair!
To the OP:
I'm currently going through an insurance claim on my Megane after someone hit me on a roundabout when they decided to join without looking or braking.
Had a reasonable amount of panel damage (passenger door and rear quarter) plus interior damage thanks to the impact setting off the side curtain airbags. The insurance company authorised a a repair, yet 4 months later I'm still without the car. Personally, if you can get a good deal, just let them write it off and buy a new car. You'll get it replaced quicker and with less hassle.
Also, their repair estimates were initially 6k, but as far as I'm aware, it's cost 8k already. Estimates usually go up, not down, so be aware of this if you decide to push for a repair!
twincamtim said:
As to your question, it is due a full independent inspection by Phoenix Motorsport in Accrington. I will be speaking to them sometime tomorrow and will ask for a copy of the report when they prepare it. Are there any pertinent and leading questions I should be asking them, apart from about contract repairs?
Olli at Phoenix is a good bloke and knows his stuff. We've worked alongside him on a few occasions now, in fact he's done work on some of our fleet. He'll provide I would think a detailed estimate including parts prices but may not. When the estimate is prepared, your insurance company's engineer will assess and provide either authority (after agreeing/arguing the estimate cost) or suggest the car is a total loss and give you a value. If a total loss, beware that salvage values can be quite strong and if you don't realise the full salvage value upon selling the salvage if you agree with the insurers to keep the salvage, the insurers should be returned to and asked to pay any shortfall. Insurance company will want to keep costs down as they are indemnifying with no accruing costs so the cheaper nett. total loss or repair cost they can get it the better but Olli won't AFAIK compromise on quality.
DCL said:
If this is the car, then I think you are looking at a new chassis as distortion seems to run to the front. IMHO this is a commercial write-off. That's not to say it couldn't be rebuilt by someone who enjoys repairing these cars.
Edited by DCL on Thursday 13th March 11:03
ok i'm not a Caterham owner so not in a position to talk about what's what in that regard. However i wrote my Tiger kit car off 2 years ago in a daft accident and can offer some thoughts based on that.
in my case i had an agreed val of 10k and the repairs estimate was 7k. The ins company deemed it uneconomical to repair and promptly wrote it off. They wanted to do so as a Cat C, i argued that based on the insurance guidelines it should be a Cat D - which they agreed to. I decided to buy the car back and they agreed to that but at a whopping 30% of the total loss....so it cost me 3k. i did that as in reality at 10k it was underinsured for the goodies that it had on it.
The chassis and many components were sold for a rebuild project - perfectly fine as it was only a Cat D, leaving me with the bits i really wanted - engine/box/braking system. Overall i was able to walk away with no financial loss, just the pain o losing my fettled car and starting again.
i'm glad it wasn't repaired, i'm the sort of person who would always question whether it was as good as before, coupled with the loss of the car for x months whilst teh repairs were being carried out.
So i'd keep on top of all parties and see how the wind blows, if you havent had the car long and havent become attached then i'd be hoping iit was a goner and start again, but keep an eye on teh write off value if it comes to it - and maybe if the numbers stack think about having it back and stripiing /selling as a project. there's enough caterhams out there to be able to negotiate a sensible final figure if it doesnt have an agreed value.
good luck and hope you get it sorted the way you want rapidly.
in my case i had an agreed val of 10k and the repairs estimate was 7k. The ins company deemed it uneconomical to repair and promptly wrote it off. They wanted to do so as a Cat C, i argued that based on the insurance guidelines it should be a Cat D - which they agreed to. I decided to buy the car back and they agreed to that but at a whopping 30% of the total loss....so it cost me 3k. i did that as in reality at 10k it was underinsured for the goodies that it had on it.
The chassis and many components were sold for a rebuild project - perfectly fine as it was only a Cat D, leaving me with the bits i really wanted - engine/box/braking system. Overall i was able to walk away with no financial loss, just the pain o losing my fettled car and starting again.
i'm glad it wasn't repaired, i'm the sort of person who would always question whether it was as good as before, coupled with the loss of the car for x months whilst teh repairs were being carried out.
So i'd keep on top of all parties and see how the wind blows, if you havent had the car long and havent become attached then i'd be hoping iit was a goner and start again, but keep an eye on teh write off value if it comes to it - and maybe if the numbers stack think about having it back and stripiing /selling as a project. there's enough caterhams out there to be able to negotiate a sensible final figure if it doesnt have an agreed value.
good luck and hope you get it sorted the way you want rapidly.
Hi Tim,
Bad luck on the accident, I hope you and any passengers are OK.
I wrote off my Caterham 17 months ago and thought I had many similar decisions to make - until my car was given a Cat B. One point of interest was that the engineer who gave it that didn't have a clue about Caterhams as such (by his own admission), he just looked at it and thought "that's a mess". I had lots of advice on PH and Blatchat about whether it was (or looked) repairable or not and how few are ever written off because they are so easy to strip and bolt all the bits onto a new chassis. Also how so many chassis are repaired - new long front is 'standard' and nothing to worry about, etc.
Having been through it my advice would be take the money and get another car - as long as you can get what you consider a good value. You're not emotionally attached to it yet and you'll avoid those nagging doubts about whether it really is as good as it was, resale value, insurance attitudes to it, etc. In my case I found a car I was actually a lot happier with despite having searched for best part of a year to find the first one (R300K). Having said that, at one point I did fancy the prospect of rebuilding it as a great way to learn about the car, but in the end I was realistic about my own mechanical talents.
As for the claim, I had to battle a bit to get my full value but I did so by showing examples of other cars on the market and detailing the mileage/spec/price comparisons, which proved that I couldn't have bought another car like mine at that time for the same money and it was actually a bit of a bargain. The fact the receipt was from the same day as my accident also confirmed the 'current' value !
Good luck with it and let me know if you'd like to chat about anything I learned in the process - happy to talk one night if you like.
Andy
Bad luck on the accident, I hope you and any passengers are OK.
I wrote off my Caterham 17 months ago and thought I had many similar decisions to make - until my car was given a Cat B. One point of interest was that the engineer who gave it that didn't have a clue about Caterhams as such (by his own admission), he just looked at it and thought "that's a mess". I had lots of advice on PH and Blatchat about whether it was (or looked) repairable or not and how few are ever written off because they are so easy to strip and bolt all the bits onto a new chassis. Also how so many chassis are repaired - new long front is 'standard' and nothing to worry about, etc.
Having been through it my advice would be take the money and get another car - as long as you can get what you consider a good value. You're not emotionally attached to it yet and you'll avoid those nagging doubts about whether it really is as good as it was, resale value, insurance attitudes to it, etc. In my case I found a car I was actually a lot happier with despite having searched for best part of a year to find the first one (R300K). Having said that, at one point I did fancy the prospect of rebuilding it as a great way to learn about the car, but in the end I was realistic about my own mechanical talents.
As for the claim, I had to battle a bit to get my full value but I did so by showing examples of other cars on the market and detailing the mileage/spec/price comparisons, which proved that I couldn't have bought another car like mine at that time for the same money and it was actually a bit of a bargain. The fact the receipt was from the same day as my accident also confirmed the 'current' value !
Good luck with it and let me know if you'd like to chat about anything I learned in the process - happy to talk one night if you like.
Andy
I am in the process of rebuilding a crash damaged 2006 roadsport its been a year and not yet finished. I have to say the damage was way more than my original estimate , as I stripped the car more things became evident so there has been a large over spend compared to final value. but I have had a lot of fun doing it and it will take a lot remove the grin once its back on the road.
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