Why do you rarely see these Ford engines in a Caterham ?
Discussion
So I'm going to fess up here ,but before I bought the present Caterham I was seriously considering a Westie because I think they offer a better bang for buck in terms of spec . Anyway it occurred to me while i was looking ,why is that you rarely see a Ford CVH or a Pinto in a Caterham- which you often see in Westies -while you see loads of Ford Cross-flows and Zetecs which are common to both 7's . In fsct the early Morgans also used the CVH engine . My magnificent 7 book cites a CVH (+/-Turbo) for the Swiss market . Does anyone know the reason for this .
Isn't it because most Caterhams are supplied as full kits along with a new engine? While a lot of Westies are supplies sans engine, and usually end up with an old pinto in there just because there's lots around, and they're cheap?
(I'm not knocking Westfield here in case it comes across like that, but I noticed their kits often rely on your sourcing your own doner parts).
(I'm not knocking Westfield here in case it comes across like that, but I noticed their kits often rely on your sourcing your own doner parts).
Ok -but the point I'm trying make here is why didn't Caterham go with the CVH or the pinto instead of the xflow as their preferred engine as part of the bespoke kits -in fact why didn't Caterham switch to the Zetec rather than the K series as a replacement for the Crossflow ?Did they fall out with Ford or something
doclip said:
Ok -but the point I'm trying make here is why didn't Caterham go with the CVH or the pinto instead of the xflow as their preferred engine as part of the bespoke kits -in fact why didn't Caterham switch to the Zetec rather than the K series as a replacement for the Crossflow ?Did they fall out with Ford or something
The K series was the perfect engine. Light weight and powerful. The Zetec weighs a ton. The CVH isn't a great engine to tune and weighs a ton! The crossflow is quite light for an iron block and was very popular with loads of tuning goodies available.So how come one often sees CVH and Pinto in Westies -ie is that just down to cost as these engines were usally supplied from donor vehicles -I mean im guessing that a Wesite and Caterham is much the same in terms of layout .
Re the Zetec -Am I correct in assuming that many folk would have updgraded their Xflow to a Zetec simply for ease of conversion ?
I'm sure I even once saw a Caterham with a Mazda rotary engine from an RX7 -surely that would be a great option in terms of bhp/cc and weight distribution but maybe not so great on the juice . Also one sees Westies with the MX5 donor engine ,which is great unit either the 1.6 or 1.8 and is totally bomb proof -they liked to be revved and never complain and go on well over 100k -gearboxes are also excellent units .
Re the Zetec -Am I correct in assuming that many folk would have updgraded their Xflow to a Zetec simply for ease of conversion ?
I'm sure I even once saw a Caterham with a Mazda rotary engine from an RX7 -surely that would be a great option in terms of bhp/cc and weight distribution but maybe not so great on the juice . Also one sees Westies with the MX5 donor engine ,which is great unit either the 1.6 or 1.8 and is totally bomb proof -they liked to be revved and never complain and go on well over 100k -gearboxes are also excellent units .
Which got me thinking again ....
in terms of ideal 50/50 weight distribution for a 7 ,would i be correct in assuming that if you have heavy lump like a VX or Zetec ,would it better to be a larger person ,and the converse applying to something like a bike engine to equal things out .
I am only a wee fella -5-8 and 67 kg ,so should i start piling on the beef to get the best weight distribution in my HPC ? Or even perhaps put a sack of spuds in the pax seat or the boot area . I suspect i may be talking a load of tosh as usual .
in terms of ideal 50/50 weight distribution for a 7 ,would i be correct in assuming that if you have heavy lump like a VX or Zetec ,would it better to be a larger person ,and the converse applying to something like a bike engine to equal things out .
I am only a wee fella -5-8 and 67 kg ,so should i start piling on the beef to get the best weight distribution in my HPC ? Or even perhaps put a sack of spuds in the pax seat or the boot area . I suspect i may be talking a load of tosh as usual .
My 2p
A Caterham (Lotus 7) has always been about light weight which leads to great handling and fantastic responses.
The lighter you can make it the better it is to drive. The lighter the engine, the better balance. The brakes, wheels and tyres can be smaller, the lighter/better the car becomes and on it goes.
I think more Caterhams are built like this as they cost more to buy and build than the likes of a Westfield. Building them to a similar spec as the factory makes them easier to sell and protects the residuals.
Westfields and the like are generally built more on a budget with some/ all recon (used) parts and therefore more accepted to have different engines.
I have driven a few Caterhams and Clones. My Favourite on track was a SLR with a VHPD engine. It was sublime. The balance between chassis and power was brilliant. You are able to use all the power without it overwhelming the experience.
A BEC (Fireblade) version was even better in terms of turn in, change of direction and braking. I just missed the extra torque from the car engine and the fabulous 6 speed box. The 80kg weight loss didn't half make a difference though.
Having driven a clone that was nearer 600kg with a boat anchor for an engine and a standard type 9 gearbox it just didn't do it for me. Just not the same at all. It was like wearing a hob nail boot where the SLR was a silk slipper.
A Caterham (Lotus 7) has always been about light weight which leads to great handling and fantastic responses.
The lighter you can make it the better it is to drive. The lighter the engine, the better balance. The brakes, wheels and tyres can be smaller, the lighter/better the car becomes and on it goes.
I think more Caterhams are built like this as they cost more to buy and build than the likes of a Westfield. Building them to a similar spec as the factory makes them easier to sell and protects the residuals.
Westfields and the like are generally built more on a budget with some/ all recon (used) parts and therefore more accepted to have different engines.
I have driven a few Caterhams and Clones. My Favourite on track was a SLR with a VHPD engine. It was sublime. The balance between chassis and power was brilliant. You are able to use all the power without it overwhelming the experience.
A BEC (Fireblade) version was even better in terms of turn in, change of direction and braking. I just missed the extra torque from the car engine and the fabulous 6 speed box. The 80kg weight loss didn't half make a difference though.
Having driven a clone that was nearer 600kg with a boat anchor for an engine and a standard type 9 gearbox it just didn't do it for me. Just not the same at all. It was like wearing a hob nail boot where the SLR was a silk slipper.
The Caterham chassis has a very small 'engine bay' which restricts engine choice massively - one of the downsides of having a (relative to a Westfield) pretty rigid chassis.
The CVH was a dog of an engine from day one, and the Pinto is tall and heavy (the last things a Caterham chassis needs).
The CVH was a dog of an engine from day one, and the Pinto is tall and heavy (the last things a Caterham chassis needs).
So basically are you saying effectively that the Westie is a more flexible 7 wrt putative engine choice -surely that's a positive for someone building a 7 in terms of bang for buck especially if on a ltd budget .
Having never actually driven a K or bike engined 7 I cant pass informed comment on handling and feel ,although I have paxed in several 7s incl an K series R400 and a SL . What I can say is that the aural experience of the K series was not in the same league as say a BDR on full chat -but I guess that's really down to personal preference .I have been in Fireblade Westie and I was rather glad to get out as the intense high frequency noise got quite annoying at such high revs -not at all pleasant . I suppose that's the closest thing to a bike on 4 wheels if that's what floats your boat . I quite like the old school aspect of a 7 on carbs -although i appreciate it's now outdated technology and needs constant fettling and is also less fuel efficient [not that it really matters if your'e only doing 1000 miles or so pa] .
What I do find amusing is the folk who are obsessed by weight of their 7 going to the extreme lengths of shedding bits off with carbon ,seats etc , yet they seem to miss the point losing say 10 kg from their body weight ,which would be the cheapest way of improving their bhp/tonne ratio -not to mention the other health related benefits .
Having never actually driven a K or bike engined 7 I cant pass informed comment on handling and feel ,although I have paxed in several 7s incl an K series R400 and a SL . What I can say is that the aural experience of the K series was not in the same league as say a BDR on full chat -but I guess that's really down to personal preference .I have been in Fireblade Westie and I was rather glad to get out as the intense high frequency noise got quite annoying at such high revs -not at all pleasant . I suppose that's the closest thing to a bike on 4 wheels if that's what floats your boat . I quite like the old school aspect of a 7 on carbs -although i appreciate it's now outdated technology and needs constant fettling and is also less fuel efficient [not that it really matters if your'e only doing 1000 miles or so pa] .
What I do find amusing is the folk who are obsessed by weight of their 7 going to the extreme lengths of shedding bits off with carbon ,seats etc , yet they seem to miss the point losing say 10 kg from their body weight ,which would be the cheapest way of improving their bhp/tonne ratio -not to mention the other health related benefits .
I will have to take your word on that Dave -I guess it depends if you like the sound of the Girls aloud or a Welsh male voice choir .
There is no doubt the K series is a fine light modern engine and you only have to look at the SLR or the R500 to see what it's capable of when finely tuned .
Re the CVH if its such a shoddy unit ,it makes one wonder why Morgan used it so much in their 4/4 and why it was so popular in the XR3i etc .
There is no doubt the K series is a fine light modern engine and you only have to look at the SLR or the R500 to see what it's capable of when finely tuned .
Re the CVH if its such a shoddy unit ,it makes one wonder why Morgan used it so much in their 4/4 and why it was so popular in the XR3i etc .
doclip said:
So how come one often sees CVH and Pinto in Westies...
I think thats down to the V5 and using X number of major parts from donor vehicle to keep the registration and DVLA happy in the good 'ole pre-SVA/IVA daysdoclip said:
... and why it was so popular in the XR3i etc .
The XR3i, that master peice of driving dynamics.. oh hang on.Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff