Buying Cheap and upgrading

[Blowfish]

How much work would be involved in converting a cheaper 7 to R300 type spec for both road and track use? A car like this one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...

[Orange Blackbird]

It would be a financially stupid to do.

Gearbox £1500 secondhand
Engine you might find one for £750?
Wheels and tyres - again you may find a set for £400
LSD - I know it is not necessarily an R300 option but most have it so at least £500
Brakes, really should have big brakes so £500-600
No carbon bits like most R300s but they usually have dash and front wings minimum so £500ish min
Watts linkage, not necessary but fitted on R300, dunno, £400?
Wide track front suspension and shocks, you are talking £1500 +

I could go on but basically it is not worth it and even if you were to spend out it would still never be an R300 in most peoples eyes so would not hold the value of an R300.

R300s do come up around the £18-20k mark so save up and get one of those. Most R300s come with quite a few options, I had one and it had dry sump, stack dash, Kevlar seats, big brakes LSD, carbon nose, carbon front and rear wings and it was not much more than a basic one.

[ghibbett]

Blowfish said:

How much work would be involved in converting a cheaper 7 to R300 type spec for both road and track use? A car like this one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...

Blimey, 13 plate K-series! That's very 'last of the line'.

Also WTF is going on with those horrendous DRLs!?

Finally to add - what Orange Blackbird said is something I completely agree with. Just buy an R300.

[Toaster]

Orange Blackbird said:

It would be a financially stupid to do.

Gearbox £1500 secondhand
Engine you might find one for £750?
Wheels and tyres - again you may find a set for £400
LSD - I know it is not necessarily an R300 option but most have it so at least £500
Brakes, really should have big brakes so £500-600
No carbon bits like most R300s but they usually have dash and front wings minimum so £500ish min
Watts linkage, not necessary but fitted on R300, dunno, £400?
Wide track front suspension and shocks, you are talking £1500 +

I could go on but basically it is not worth it and even if you were to spend out it would still never be an R300 in most peoples eyes so would not hold the value of an R300.

R300s do come up around the £18-20k mark so save up and get one of those. Most R300s come with quite a few options, I had one and it had dry sump, stack dash, Kevlar seats, big brakes LSD, carbon nose, carbon front and rear wings and it was not much more than a basic one.

Spot on

I had a road sport upgraded to a supersport R (with a new 6 speed and roller barrels etc) essentially I had a road sport with R 300 performance but still needed wide track / adjustable suspension, wheels tyres etc etc etc....................I should have just gone strait to a superlight which I eventually brought (R400 K series)

[Smollet]

ghibbett said:

Blimey, 13 plate K-series! That's very 'last of the line'.
.

It might be the last k series but it's the first fwd Caterham I've ever seen

Edited by Smollet on Monday 5th January 19:56

[Grubbster]

I think that's a quite conservative estimate Orange, I guess if you manage to source all the bits second hand and do the work yourself this could be done.

My car started as a Roadsport 140 that I built over 11 years ago. I shudder to think what I've spent on it since - wheels, tyres, Titan LSD, SPC gearbox, 230 bhp engine (and some expensive TLC to go with it), dry sump, big brakes, AP master cylinder, shift lights, wide track, rear ARB, adjustable front ARB, carbon dash-4 wings-nose-sills-light pods, Raceco exhaust, Nitrons. It's a great car and I've enjoyed getting it to where it is, but it would have been cheaper to buy one of the right spec.

http://sevenracing.co.uk/My_Other_Seven.html

I think you can buy an R300k for under £20k or an R500k for around £23k, I've spent mid £30's I reckon and I'd be pleased if I could sell it for £20k!

[Shropcat]

Been down the same route as Grubbster, taking a 120bhp K Series up to R400 power plus all the bling and in the end gave in and sold it to buy a R500 (k).

As they say 'You can't beat the real thing!'

[framerateuk]

I wouldn't suggest buying a low-end car with no desirable parts with the intention of replacing nearly everything, but a few parts can't harm.

My Roadsport 140 came with LSD, 6 Speed, Wide-track (including watts linkage), so you can certainly find "slower" cars with lots of the high-end components already fitted.

I must admit, if I bought new I'd be looking at a Duratec, but I'd love to upgrade my Sigma instead and push it to around 200bhp. It would cost more than a Duratec switch but would be lighter which seems more in keeping with the spirit of the 7 to me!

[Toaster]

Shropcat said:

Been down the same route as Grubbster, taking a 120bhp K Series up to R400 power plus all the bling and in the end gave in and sold it to buy a R500 (k). As they say 'You can't beat the real thing!'

+1 plus an "original' has a better re-sale value

[SKC]

Hi All,

Regarding upgrading Sigma to Duratec do a like for like costing. I think you'll find upgrading a Sigma to 175 bhp cheaper than swapping the engine and installation to R300 spec. I also think you'll find upgrading to 200bhp cheaper that converting the installtion to R400 spec.

We've done the numbers!!

Regards

SKC

[gareth h]

I've gone down the buy cheap and modify route, picked up my first 7, a 120 roadsport K series a few months ago, it now has a vvc head, Z and F remap and Quantum dampers (should be 160-170 hp) total cost about £2.5k plus £9.5k for the car (which needs a little cosmetic tidying). From what I can see any more power than this from a K series starts to get to be expensive, but the mods have transformed it io something that is much more fun to drive.

[framerateuk]

SKC said:

Hi All,

Regarding upgrading Sigma to Duratec do a like for like costing. I think you'll find upgrading a Sigma to 175 bhp cheaper than swapping the engine and installation to R300 spec. I also think you'll find upgrading to 200bhp cheaper that converting the installtion to R400 spec.

We've done the numbers!!

Regards

SKC

Hey SKC, I actually meant selling up and buying another car was probably cheaper than an engine swap!

I'll probably be in touch at some point in the future when I've decided I need more than my current 140 horses...

[Farlig]

Yeah, as some say it may be a financially "stupid" thing to do but then where do you draw the line - for most common folk merely buying a Cat is a financially "stupid" thing to do... Upgradititis is a financially "stupid" thing to do, but if you are anything like most of us is will bite and there's no better satisfaction in a route like this other than building new...
In some respects I prefer this route as you do it progressively and properly getting to know the car yourself properly whilst fixing / bettering the odd bit here and there as you go... That's me though - I need to tinker & with cars like these I'd say tinkering & upgrading is a very big part of their ownership
However if it's a cost issue & trying to save a penny and you're not really a tinkerer then the above is sound advice, buy the right car in the first place

Edited by Farlig on Tuesday 6th January 16:08

[Toaster]

Farlig said:

Yeah, as some say it may be a financially "stupid" thing to do but then where do you draw the line - for most common folk merely buying a Cat is a financially "stupid" thing to do...

Edited by Farlig on Tuesday 6th January 16:08

Carefull I told the wife it was a bargain and an investment

[cwin]

Or you buy mine and put it on the road,,

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...

[SidewaysSi]

Like others have said, usually the cheapest (though certainly not always) way is to chop and change cars. However there is something to be said for long term ownership and growing with a car.

There is also some "romance" for me about enjoying one car, knowing it inside out and having some great memories. Using and enjoying cars always costs but at least with Caterhams, that cost is minimal.

[Orange Blackbird]

I did say financially stupid but not stupid if you want to slowly progress from a basic car to an R300 spec car and learn along the way. However starting with a car priced at £16,000 + seems silly to me. Paying £9500 and then upgrading is an option although if a Caterham is priced this low it is either old or in poor condition and you need to factor this in.

[IBDAET]

Unless you can buy a cheap car for much less its not worth it.

If you can find a neglected 1.4K with a 6 speed box for £6000-8000 or so, its worth doing a full refurb on the chassis and fit all the sought after bits. I did this for someone 10 years ago and they ended up with an R300 spec car with R500 exhaust, wide track, LSD, carbon and tillets for £16k.

[Stuart0620]

From my experience I would buy the most powerful 7 that you can afford otherwise you will get upgradeitis and spend a fortune in the pursuit of power and speed.

I bought a Subaru Impreza with 240 bhp and after changing the ECU, suspension, intercooler, brakes, wheels, etc, taking it to 350bhp+, it cost me probably 3 x more than the car cost and a 350bhp off the shelf standard Subaru would have cost less.

I then repeated this with a Superlight R which I thought was quick but after a few years it just felt slow and I now have a 620R on order and am hoping that I don't get upgradeitis with this !

[Toaster]

Stuart0620 said:

From my experience I would buy the most powerful 7 that you can afford otherwise you will get upgradeitis and spend a fortune in the pursuit of power and speed.

I bought a Subaru Impreza with 240 bhp and after changing the ECU, suspension, intercooler, brakes, wheels, etc, taking it to 350bhp+, it cost me probably 3 x more than the car cost and a 350bhp off the shelf standard Subaru would have cost less.

I then repeated this with a Superlight R which I thought was quick but after a few years it just felt slow and I now have a 620R on order and am hoping that I don't get upgradeitis with this !

A lotus Type 125 may be the answer if you ever decide the 620R is too slow