What's the reason for such high prices?
Discussion
The construction of a basic model such as the 170 should be really inexpensive. It has a tiny engine, a simple chassis, simple suspensions, small wheels, basic and obsolete technology, no luxuries... How can they ask 40000€ for it? Do they get a benefit of 20000€ for every car built? In comparison, for less than 40000€ you can get a GR Yaris with 261 hp (more than the triple), better performance, a full body, high performance brakes, big wheels, air conditioner, airbags, traction control, parking sensors, etc. I mean, it doesn't make much sense. Either the Yaris is a true bargain or the Caterham is incredibly expensive. I know Toyota is a much bigger manufacturer than Caterham, but I don't know it that justifies the differences. I know the Yaris will not offer the same experience and the Caterham is much more special, but objectively how can one deny that it is much, much more expensive than it should be?
They're spreading all their opex and capital depreciation across the 500 or so cars a year they sell.
They haven't been making a profit... (I haven't re-checked this from last time I looked).
But yes, on the face of it they are very expensive for a such a simple car with few components... but see above, low volume manufacture isn't cheap.
They haven't been making a profit... (I haven't re-checked this from last time I looked).
But yes, on the face of it they are very expensive for a such a simple car with few components... but see above, low volume manufacture isn't cheap.
In the old days car makers use to work out how much it costs to manufacture a car and then add a profit on top and hay presto you had a price, now a days you work out what the market is willing to pay and charge that, Then you make the product as cheap as possible to maximize the profit. Caterham currently have a long waiting list so the price is clearly not putting people off, people with orders also have to accept when the price goes up whilst waiting for the car to be ready, so the price you agree at ordering is not guaranteed to be what you end up paying
My last 200+ bhp Caterham sold this year, for less than the cost of the optional extras list on a current 420R, go figure...
My last 200+ bhp Caterham sold this year, for less than the cost of the optional extras list on a current 420R, go figure...
The assumption that the cost to build something has anything to do with it's value / the price it will sell for is a broken assumption, that's why. Price is entirely determined by supply & demand (and percieved value). Apparently the market will pay, and there's a backlog to prove it, so why would the price be any lower?
t. They have more cars ordered than they can supply, they are high prices and yet they still make a loss. Go figure.I agree, they are crazy money for what you actually get. But if you watch the recent TV documentary on the factory, it makes a little bit more sense...some bloke lying under the chassis welding every tube in by hand, another bloke carefully hand-beating the ally rear around the chassis tubes. Compare that to an army of robots welding a conventional shelled car together in minutes.
It does make me wince sometimes when I look at what else I could be driving for the same money, however you just have to ignore what the car doesn't have in terms of components and complexity, and just look at the feel, handling and performance of the thing. Again, it makes a little more sense then.
In some ways it also makes more sense than something like a halo model 911, with all the crap that involves..."invite only" from the dealer to buy one, rules on what you can then do with it, and values that are multiple times over a more base 911 for nowhere near similar multiples of performance.
It does make me wince sometimes when I look at what else I could be driving for the same money, however you just have to ignore what the car doesn't have in terms of components and complexity, and just look at the feel, handling and performance of the thing. Again, it makes a little more sense then.
In some ways it also makes more sense than something like a halo model 911, with all the crap that involves..."invite only" from the dealer to buy one, rules on what you can then do with it, and values that are multiple times over a more base 911 for nowhere near similar multiples of performance.
BertBert said:
I guess in the world of supply and demand the pricing is fine as it's about what people will pay for the "brand" - and they do pay it. Although I do think you can get exactly the essence of what a brand new Caterham does in a much older and cheaper model - used obviously.
The prices of everything has gone up though.Mine was 17k used in 2012. It's a 2009 car, I suspect it was approx. 28k new based on the Supersports I was speccing up at the time.
For comparison, in 2009 a Fiesta ST could be had brand new for 13.5k
Fast forward to now, alright, the Sigma isn't available anymore, but my car with the options selected would have easily been high 30's. A Fiesta ST (before they stopped making them) last year would have been 28k.
Everything costs more, it's not just Caterhams.
Purespeed said:
I remember back in 2009 they classic with 1400 rover engine was 12995.00 I bought a couple and got credits for the engines, diffs, gearboxes and a bunch of other stuff and paid 6k and a bit. Things have certainly changed…
Just to clarify, are you saying that the 1400 k-series caterham was £12,995 new in 2009?framerateuk said:
Yep. Inflation is the killer.
Just look at Lotus Elise prices from the MK1 to the 250 Cup (18k in 1996 to 50k last year).
Interestingly the weight went from to 725kg 931kg - a 28% increase. (Price comparison there is/was 177% increase).Just look at Lotus Elise prices from the MK1 to the 250 Cup (18k in 1996 to 50k last year).
S1: £24.82 per kilo
250 Cup: £53.70 per kilo
I buy all my cars by the kilo.
They don't seem to be making a fortune out of them at this price. I wonder what would happen if they increased prices further?
I feel that the kind of buyer who buys this product is possibly less price sensitive.
As a product - it's a very different offer from say a GR Yaris so not sure it's worth comparing price.
I suspect they could charge 25% more or less and it would make little difference to their sales.
I feel the same way about Morgans too.
Less so about Lotus and Alpine.
I feel that the kind of buyer who buys this product is possibly less price sensitive.
As a product - it's a very different offer from say a GR Yaris so not sure it's worth comparing price.
I suspect they could charge 25% more or less and it would make little difference to their sales.
I feel the same way about Morgans too.
Less so about Lotus and Alpine.
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