170. Low speed fun?

[Entropia]

Do you think the 170 is a good choice if:

I want to drive within the legal speed limits
I am not going to take it to the track
I care more about fun than performance

Regarding the last point, do you think the slim tires will make the car easier to slide at low speeds, for example on roundabouts?
Will that make it less dangerous to drive in the rain?

Finally, is it worth paying what the LSD costs for this model?
And the track suspension? (for road use if you don't mind the harshness and want a raw experience for short trips).

[MikePRT90]

Is the 170 85bhp? My caterham is a 125bhp roadsport, only had it just under 3 weeks now and I’m already thinking about more power!!! I have no intention of tracking it either so will only be a fun road car so in reality 125bhp is more than enough as anymore and I think I’d probably get into trouble. Personally I think the 170 will be too underpowered and after a while you will crave more BHP. Mine is no speed demon (even my Tesla is faster) but it has enough go to keep it interesting.

As for tyres my has the 13 inch lightweight alloys which are 6 inch wide all round….not sure how these compare to the 170 but it’s not too hard to get the rear out. Mine also has the adjustable track suspension…ride is firm but I do not find it a probably and I like the rawness of it.

Best bet is try and test drive a few to get a feel for how the 170 feels compared to other models.

Good luck!

[Entropia]

Sadly the options here in Spain are very limited. It's the 170 or the 340. The 170 is already around 45000€ (taxes included), which is, in my opinion, more than double what it should cost. The 340 is more than 60000€. That's obvously out of the question for me. I'm old and poor and spending 45000€ in a toy for the weekends is already a very crazy move.

[Dave 152bhp]

Is pre-owned not an option?

[Entropia]

I do not discard it, although, as you can imagine, the number of available vehicles with the steering wheel on the left side is not high, let alone cars in Spain. Some days ago I found this model which is powerful and well equipped and also looks great. It is located in the Cannary Islands. But who knows in what condition the engine and the rest of the car are. 2 owners and 25 years old, for 38500 €.

https://www.autoscout24.es/anuncios/caterham-super...

Edited by Entropia on Monday 14th July 11:46

Edited by Entropia on Monday 14th July 11:47

[MikePRT90]

Does it have to be left hand drive…the car is small and so narrow that I don’t think being on the right hand side will make that much difference. With roof off the visibility is really good.

[Entropia]

I know but, after so many years, I could not get used to changing gear with my left hand.

[framerateuk]

Have you driven any Caterham yet?

I'd say it's worth doing that, maybe hire one for a few days (there are places in the UK that do this), which given the cost of buying is probably well worth it.

I'm used to getting absolutely cooked in my Sigma 140 on very hot days (so, 25C+), but I must admit if I was in a hotter climate I'd probably be looking at something with a little more sun protection and AC (Lotus Elise?).

My feet get extremely warm on hot days due to the heat from the transmission tunnel and exhaust. On very hot trackdays, 10 minute sessions are quite enough as the heat on the legs gets a bit much!

Can't comment on the Suzuki powered car (maybe it runs cooler?), but it's something that's worth thinking about if you live somewhere quite warm.

[Olivera]

There's low powered but still fun Caterhams, then there's the struggle to pull the skin off a rice pudding 160 and 170 models. Try and find a normal 1.6 or 1.8 model.

[Entropia]

framerateuk said:

Have you driven any Caterham yet?

I'd say it's worth doing that, maybe hire one for a few days (there are places in the UK that do this), which given the cost of buying is probably well worth it.

I'm used to getting absolutely cooked in my Sigma 140 on very hot days (so, 25C+), but I must admit if I was in a hotter climate I'd probably be looking at something with a little more sun protection and AC (Lotus Elise?).

My feet get extremely warm on hot days due to the heat from the transmission tunnel and exhaust. On very hot trackdays, 10 minute sessions are quite enough as the heat on the legs gets a bit much!

Can't comment on the Suzuki powered car (maybe it runs cooler?), but it's something that's worth thinking about if you live somewhere quite warm.

I live in the sunniest and driest place in Europe. From June to September I know I couldn't take the car out of the garage until the sun has set.

I could hire one before buying, but for that I would have to travel to Madrid (540km away).

[Nothingtoseehere]

Entropia said:

I do not discard it, although, as you can imagine, the number of available vehicles with the steering wheel on the left side is not high, let alone cars in Spain. Some days ago I found this model which is powerful and well equipped and also looks great. It is located in the Cannary Islands. But who knows in what condition the engine and the rest of the car are. 2 owners and 25 years old, for 38500 .

https://www.autoscout24.es/anuncios/caterham-super...

Edited by Entropia on Monday 14th July 11:46

Edited by Entropia on Monday 14th July 11:47

It does look very clean, but of course that doesn't tell us everything!

Why is it so expensive? Is it just there's so little supply and import taxes/new car taxes are really high?

[framerateuk]

Entropia said:

I live in the sunniest and driest place in Europe. From June to September I know I couldn't take the car out of the garage until the sun has set.

I could hire one before buying, but for that I would have to travel to Madrid (540km away).

Sensible, but in warm air the engine will still run hot and cook your legs (the manifold is right in front of your feet on a Ford engined car, not sure about the suzuki). It's so unlike other road cars in that sense!

I have seen some solutions where people have installed cold air feeds to cool their feet, but there's not a lot of room in the engine bay and the ones I've seen have had pods fitted on the nosecone to accomodate them.

Edited by framerateuk on Tuesday 15th July 11:27

[Entropia]

All cars very expensive now. I don't know in England, but in many other European countries, prices are crazy. Look in France, for instance. There for many new models you pay more in taxes than the actual price of the car. Of course, the price of pre-owned cars has risen to accommodate the new situation.

I have already read what you said about heat, like in the winter you have one leg burning hot and the other freezing cold. I don't really care about comfort. I know this is a radical car for short periods of time behind the wheel. As long as I can fit in the car and I can use the pedals with driving shoes, it will be OK.

The issue with the lack of power is not something that really worries me too much. I'm used to a diesel Peugeot 207 with 67 hp and more than 1200 kg, and I don't really see I need more power for a daily use. I also have a Mazda 3 Sportsedan with 160 hp, which of course feels much faster. However, I prefer the humble Peugeot as I feel more connected to the road with it. Actually, the worst car I have (inherited from my father) is an automatic hybrid Toyota CHR. It has all sort of technology but I can't feel anything with it. I feel too isolated from the outside when driving thar car. It may be safe, easy, comfortable for long trips, for the city, etc. but it's too boring.

Edited by Entropia on Tuesday 15th July 15:08

Edited by Entropia on Tuesday 15th July 15:11

[DP1]

I have what most on here would consider to be a low powered Caterham - 2014 Classic, 1.4 k series, 105 bhp - which is on 185 tyres. They are not semi slick type either, think they are Avon all weathers of some sort.

To be honest I'm not looking for any more power, on the crowded roads in this country I never really get chance to open it right up.

Still, I really enjoy just driving around in it. The whole fell of the steering and gear change, the way it corners, it's like nothing else you'll ever drive.

But, honey moley, that's expensive where you are. I only paid £17k for mine, much less than my neighbour paid for his BMW GS motorbike.

Do it, you'll never look back (except in those shaky, rubbish mirrors), and you'll have a ball.

[Dr Evil]

LSD would probably not be worth it with 84hp especially on dry roads. I think it might even cause the car to understeer; very doubtful that caterham tuned the LSD for this model. Power wise i imagine it would be a lot of fun, and fast enough for road use. If you went with brooklands or aeroscreens it will definitely feel fast until you get overtaken by a shopping trolley.

I would fight to get the lightweight flywheel if possible with the r spec, leather seats and maybe track day rollbar. You could pass on the weather equipment - havent put my roof on in 10 years. Doors are nice though with the full screen as they eliminate most the buffetting.

[Entropia]

Remember what I said about crazy prices? Today I have been asking about the real price to pay for a new Caterham here in Spain. Apart from the price shown in the configurator, you have to add the taxes (21%), and finally add the importation costs, homologation, registration, transport, and the Spanish dealer's commercial margin. Therefore, a 170 with very few extras (maybe lowered floor, premium paint and sport suspension) reaches 50000€ approximately. A bargain, isn't it? It seems that the only sensible thing to consider is to look for used cars already registered here in Spain.

Edited by Entropia on Tuesday 15th July 21:51

Edited by Entropia on Tuesday 15th July 21:59

[timrw81]

I spent eight hours non-stop driving in a 170R with an LSD on some of the nicest roads in Britain on Friday. It was a fantastic car. It feels very light compared to the other 7s I’ve driven, which means turn-in is super sharp. In second gear oversteer is yours for the taking. In third you have to be seriously leaning on the grip to get the back end out, and speeds are higher. The tyres at perfectly matched to the car. I would recommend it very highly, though not without an LSD. The only thing I’d like to have had was an aeroscreen. It’s quick but the real fun is in keeping momentum up through the corners, in that sweet place between grip and slip.

[KnifeySpoony]

Not having driven a 170, I would say there's not so much a thing as being under powered, as it is being over-tyred. As long as the tyres allow the car to move around and the car's limited power to break traction, it should be fun and engaging. I definitely learned this lesson with my 420R on throttle bodies. I recently put on A24 (soft compound ZZR) and the car, while faster on track, is a lot less fun and engaging. Another 50hp would fix that, but I'm just going back to less grippy tyres. It was very lively on ZZS, and still plenty of of on the A64 ZZR, which I think it is the sweet spot and will go back to after this set is done.

Oh, and and definitely get the LSD, even with 84hp.