When does a game become too realistic?
Discussion
Just been thinking;
New consoles and computers can produce stunning graphics and physics. Games like Forza 3 and GT5 have pushed the boundaries of photorealistic graphics and few would say that is a bad thing. On the other hand, games like GTA and CoD have also become more realistic but is there a line to be drawn as to how far they should go?
I'm not what you'd call a prude but I have to admit to wincing when I first played GTA4 and mowed down an innocent pedestrian. The shift from San Andreas's comic book style violence to GTA4's gritty realism was apparent and I must say that I no longer try to run people over for fun as it looks disturbingly real when I do.
I thought the same when I first played CoD WAW. My mate was gleefully showing what happened when you shoot someone in the head and I have to admit to being a bit uncomfortable with seeing the gore. I think it's to do with the fact that people not long ago actually went through that for real and the blood and guts were from their friends and comrades. Now we're playing it for fun and it just doesn't sit comfortably with me.
For me it's because the latest games look so real in terms of the physics and graphics. Fantasy games are different as what you are seeing is obviously make believe. When it comes to games based on real-life, where the things you do on screen actually happen for real, it just makes me uncomfortable.
I'm sure that some people will criticise me for being prudish or whatever but my final thought is this; Given how much games have progressed in the last 10 years, do we really want future games to include realistic depictions along the lines of what you'll find in the Gruesome industrial injuries thread?
(Don't look if you are squeamish!! http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=731566&mid=145416&nmt=Gruesome%20industrial%20injury%20pics%20needed.)
Just interested to hear what you all think
New consoles and computers can produce stunning graphics and physics. Games like Forza 3 and GT5 have pushed the boundaries of photorealistic graphics and few would say that is a bad thing. On the other hand, games like GTA and CoD have also become more realistic but is there a line to be drawn as to how far they should go?
I'm not what you'd call a prude but I have to admit to wincing when I first played GTA4 and mowed down an innocent pedestrian. The shift from San Andreas's comic book style violence to GTA4's gritty realism was apparent and I must say that I no longer try to run people over for fun as it looks disturbingly real when I do.
I thought the same when I first played CoD WAW. My mate was gleefully showing what happened when you shoot someone in the head and I have to admit to being a bit uncomfortable with seeing the gore. I think it's to do with the fact that people not long ago actually went through that for real and the blood and guts were from their friends and comrades. Now we're playing it for fun and it just doesn't sit comfortably with me.
For me it's because the latest games look so real in terms of the physics and graphics. Fantasy games are different as what you are seeing is obviously make believe. When it comes to games based on real-life, where the things you do on screen actually happen for real, it just makes me uncomfortable.
I'm sure that some people will criticise me for being prudish or whatever but my final thought is this; Given how much games have progressed in the last 10 years, do we really want future games to include realistic depictions along the lines of what you'll find in the Gruesome industrial injuries thread?
(Don't look if you are squeamish!! http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=731566&mid=145416&nmt=Gruesome%20industrial%20injury%20pics%20needed.)
Just interested to hear what you all think
Firstly, that link is dead (certainly in my browser).
Secondly, the examples you provide - COD (and to a lesser extent GTA IV) benefit from being realistic. But i would consider this is just a sheen on what is an excellent gampeplay experience, contributing to the immersive nature of the game.
Fact is there have been games in the past that have sold themselves as being ultra realistic but deliver a crap Gameplay experience = not very entertaining = low sales = distant memory in the history of gaming.
One PC game in particular - Soldier of Fortune - sold itself on life like Ragdoll physics. Sure it was "entertaining" shooting individual limbs off for a while. Or continuing to maim once the target was killed. However, after a short while this didnt cover up for the game being poo.
Personally, i like the realism provided. Regardless of how good the gameplay is, I am not sure that COD / GTA would sell in the volumes that they have if they looked like they were coded on anything from a ZX 81 to a PS1....
Secondly, the examples you provide - COD (and to a lesser extent GTA IV) benefit from being realistic. But i would consider this is just a sheen on what is an excellent gampeplay experience, contributing to the immersive nature of the game.
Fact is there have been games in the past that have sold themselves as being ultra realistic but deliver a crap Gameplay experience = not very entertaining = low sales = distant memory in the history of gaming.
One PC game in particular - Soldier of Fortune - sold itself on life like Ragdoll physics. Sure it was "entertaining" shooting individual limbs off for a while. Or continuing to maim once the target was killed. However, after a short while this didnt cover up for the game being poo.
Personally, i like the realism provided. Regardless of how good the gameplay is, I am not sure that COD / GTA would sell in the volumes that they have if they looked like they were coded on anything from a ZX 81 to a PS1....
To be fair if you are allowed to post pictures of industrial injuries on a public forum, why should a game (however the word game should no longer be associated with cute kids playing tiddlywinks anymore) not be allowed to show an injury in far less detail. These games are also age restricted and parents DO have some responsibility.
This argument can run and run for as long as people want it to. And it probably will, and people will still play the games and not turn into mass murderers. Yes some Korean obsessive kids have quoted GTA in their murder cases but equally I dont see any championship horse riders from playing My Little Pony either.....
None of this is having a go, its just I dont like the politically correct view to always take the moral high ground. Sometimes logic and common sense have to come into the equation.
This argument can run and run for as long as people want it to. And it probably will, and people will still play the games and not turn into mass murderers. Yes some Korean obsessive kids have quoted GTA in their murder cases but equally I dont see any championship horse riders from playing My Little Pony either.....
None of this is having a go, its just I dont like the politically correct view to always take the moral high ground. Sometimes logic and common sense have to come into the equation.
Edited by The_Jackal on Tuesday 11th August 16:32
I play games like this and "enjoy" doing things that i would never do in real life. I don't think their is anything wrong with any kind of game as long as the player can make the distinction between running over a few computer characters and doing the same in real life.
Obviously in real life i would never dream of running someone over, chopping off limbs etc but in a game its "just a game" no one is hurt and i don't enjoy it because of the gore so to speak but more to do with the fun of playing the game, being someone i am not for a little while.
Obviously in real life i would never dream of running someone over, chopping off limbs etc but in a game its "just a game" no one is hurt and i don't enjoy it because of the gore so to speak but more to do with the fun of playing the game, being someone i am not for a little while.
Just to be clear, I'm not condemning anyone who plays these games as I play them also! I dont think playing violent games makes you a bad person and I dont think normal people get turned into killers by playing violent games. However, how much realism is too much? Would you still enjoy playing COD if the gore beacame more realistic?
(I'm not judging, I'm just curious)
(I'm not judging, I'm just curious)
who remembers the late night "gore special" that gamesmaster (my favourite tv show ever 
) did in the 90's?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vMVp85Ajcg
) did in the 90's?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vMVp85Ajcg
It's a game, there is nothing realistic about sitting on your sofa in front of the TV whilst holding a controller in your hands and making whatever it may be on screen move around...
Personally, I believe you have to be a little bit mental in the first place to become a murderer, violent, etc and that if wasn't for computer games, they would be back to blaming films again and if not films, something else and so on....
I blame society myself
Personally, I believe you have to be a little bit mental in the first place to become a murderer, violent, etc and that if wasn't for computer games, they would be back to blaming films again and if not films, something else and so on....
I blame society myself
If a game becomes too obsessed with gore etc then I imagine a lot of gamers won't buy it, and won't be successful. Hopefully that would create a sort of self-imposed limit on the sick stuff that happens in games... although ultimately, they do have an age-limit, and its up to parents to impose that.
I think the advancements in driving games are amazing, I can't wait to see how they will be able to improve on Forza 3/GT5. Hopefully war games will go in a different direction to just being as horrible as possible, but we will see. If a game does go over the line, i'm sure it will be looked at (Manhunt anyone?).
I think the advancements in driving games are amazing, I can't wait to see how they will be able to improve on Forza 3/GT5. Hopefully war games will go in a different direction to just being as horrible as possible, but we will see. If a game does go over the line, i'm sure it will be looked at (Manhunt anyone?).
Norbury90 said:
I think the advancements in driving games are amazing, I can't wait to see how they will be able to improve on Forza 3/GT5.
http://www.iracing.com/iracing gets a major update 4 times a year, i dont think well see iracing 2 as such, but we're currently on v1.8 or so.
As for GPL 2, Kaemmer has just released the Lotus 79, and its a beast!
iRacing are putting a non racer (the guy only did a race school course last week) in a Jetta TDI cup race at Road America this weekend, should be interesting to see how he goes after having only ever driven the car and the track on his computer.
As for the future, lots of the really cool tech is here for simulations. You can get motion platforms, you can get 3 screen setups (relatively cheap), you can even get 3d projectors to give you that "i am there" feeling (as long as all the FOVs match up). Its just a matter of refining the physics, the graphics, and the netcode. I dont think we'll see any more NASCAR 2 -> Grand Prix Legends leaps of technology again.
pez
As for GPL 2, Kaemmer has just released the Lotus 79, and its a beast!
iRacing are putting a non racer (the guy only did a race school course last week) in a Jetta TDI cup race at Road America this weekend, should be interesting to see how he goes after having only ever driven the car and the track on his computer.
As for the future, lots of the really cool tech is here for simulations. You can get motion platforms, you can get 3 screen setups (relatively cheap), you can even get 3d projectors to give you that "i am there" feeling (as long as all the FOVs match up). Its just a matter of refining the physics, the graphics, and the netcode. I dont think we'll see any more NASCAR 2 -> Grand Prix Legends leaps of technology again.
pez
I can't see the problem. You see far worse in films and that is real looking.
There has been no proof that games have negative effects on people (other than turning them pasty white through lack of sunlight.)
If parents are worried about games then they should be responsible and take notice of the ratings on them. It's not like it isn't obvious what the game is like.
There has been no proof that games have negative effects on people (other than turning them pasty white through lack of sunlight.)
If parents are worried about games then they should be responsible and take notice of the ratings on them. It's not like it isn't obvious what the game is like.
Daston said:
this reminds me did I hear right they are doing another carmageddon using the Unreal 3 engine?
That would be sweeeeeeeeeet! The old one was awesome! Hours of fun spent on that game being chased around by all sorts of death machines, running over people (and the odd cow on the end of a cliff jump!).I really hope they do this!
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