How much longer do you give the DSLR for 'enthusiast' use?
Discussion
What I'm trying to say is, if you are the sort of person who considers themself a keen amateur/enthusiast photographer, how long will it be until you start ditching your DSLR and buying one of these new compact camera with switchable lenses such as the Sony NEX-5 and the like.
What made me think was that I'm currently selling my Nikon D40X on eBay (the first non-compact camera I ever bought) and am looking to replace it with a D300S or similar.
I have enjoyed using the D40 so much over 4 years and it has taught me loads to the point where I now shoot a lot of my pictures in 'Manual' and am very happy with the results especially when I am trying to get a bit creative.
I have a couple of nice Nikon lenses and so it now makes sense to buy another Nikon body but a better one.
But... a friend who is also a keen amateur is also selling their D60, but I asked them what they are buying next and they replied with 'Sony NEX 5'.
I was kind of shocked because it seemed like a backward step to go from learning to correctly operate a DSLR to buying what appeared to be a 'compact'.
But then I looked into it and it I can honestly see why people might be moving on from a DSLR. You get all the functions and manual controls/settings of a decent DSLR, the image quality is absolutely stunning, yet the camera is tiny and less expensive than a low-mid range consumer DSLR.
The range of lenses is impressive and reasonably priced as well.
So.... I don't know what to do really! Do I too head down this route or should I stick to DSLR for a bit longer??
The more I think about it, the more I think that a large body camera with a flappy mechanical mirror is somehow not going to be around much longer...
Any thoughts?
What made me think was that I'm currently selling my Nikon D40X on eBay (the first non-compact camera I ever bought) and am looking to replace it with a D300S or similar.
I have enjoyed using the D40 so much over 4 years and it has taught me loads to the point where I now shoot a lot of my pictures in 'Manual' and am very happy with the results especially when I am trying to get a bit creative.
I have a couple of nice Nikon lenses and so it now makes sense to buy another Nikon body but a better one.
But... a friend who is also a keen amateur is also selling their D60, but I asked them what they are buying next and they replied with 'Sony NEX 5'.
I was kind of shocked because it seemed like a backward step to go from learning to correctly operate a DSLR to buying what appeared to be a 'compact'.
But then I looked into it and it I can honestly see why people might be moving on from a DSLR. You get all the functions and manual controls/settings of a decent DSLR, the image quality is absolutely stunning, yet the camera is tiny and less expensive than a low-mid range consumer DSLR.
The range of lenses is impressive and reasonably priced as well.
So.... I don't know what to do really! Do I too head down this route or should I stick to DSLR for a bit longer??
The more I think about it, the more I think that a large body camera with a flappy mechanical mirror is somehow not going to be around much longer...
Any thoughts?
My thoughts,
The problem with these CSC cameras are that one with comparable image quality, the nex5 etc, with an APS-C sensor still require big bulky lenses. This is physics and wont change. I would say that an SLR with a big lens on is far easier to use and more ergonomic then a CSC camera.
The ones with smaller sensors, pentax Q / nikon 1(?), dont have the image quality and are more comparable with a high end compact. Except for the price which are still very high.
I think CSC will steel sales from low end dslr's for people that like to take photo's but aren't necessarily interested in photography, if that makes sense. But for enthusiasts an SLR is still the way IMO. Its not as if these CSC Cameras are any cheaper!
What i think will happen is we may start to see current SLR camera's loose there mirrors, but retain their SLR style/shape. This will allow faster frame rates, lower weight and smaller size. I hope it doesent happen too soon though because I dont want to see optical view finders disappearing, and EVF's have a long way to go!
ETA: i would't even consider swapping my 50d for a CSC camera
The problem with these CSC cameras are that one with comparable image quality, the nex5 etc, with an APS-C sensor still require big bulky lenses. This is physics and wont change. I would say that an SLR with a big lens on is far easier to use and more ergonomic then a CSC camera.
The ones with smaller sensors, pentax Q / nikon 1(?), dont have the image quality and are more comparable with a high end compact. Except for the price which are still very high.
I think CSC will steel sales from low end dslr's for people that like to take photo's but aren't necessarily interested in photography, if that makes sense. But for enthusiasts an SLR is still the way IMO. Its not as if these CSC Cameras are any cheaper!
What i think will happen is we may start to see current SLR camera's loose there mirrors, but retain their SLR style/shape. This will allow faster frame rates, lower weight and smaller size. I hope it doesent happen too soon though because I dont want to see optical view finders disappearing, and EVF's have a long way to go!
ETA: i would't even consider swapping my 50d for a CSC camera
Edited by jimmy156 on Wednesday 28th September 12:09
I don't know anything about this particular camera but my questions are; Are they as fast as DSLR, i.e. focusing, shutter release, fps etc; Are they weather proof?; Is it quick to change settings, i.e. exposure compensation (including flash), ISO, shooting mode, AF points, AF mode, switch to manual focusing, etc. If the answers to these are all YES, I might make a switch myself tomorrow.
The sensor size in my FF DSLR is 36mm x 24 mm. The sensor size in the Sony is 23.4 × 15.6mm
I would therefore not consider the Sony as a serious alternative.
It may take good photos, but I'll stack FF Canon or Nikon up against it any day in anything other than bright light.
...and then there is the matter of scores of new and second hand lenses.
It may happen one day. Not today.
Thanks to Elderly for flagging the differet sensor sizes
I would therefore not consider the Sony as a serious alternative.
It may take good photos, but I'll stack FF Canon or Nikon up against it any day in anything other than bright light.
...and then there is the matter of scores of new and second hand lenses.
It may happen one day. Not today.
Thanks to Elderly for flagging the differet sensor sizes
Edited by GetCarter on Wednesday 28th September 12:42
I like the clear divide between compact and DSLR. Mostly it's a size thing. I like that when I'm using the DSLR it feels like more of an occasion and that I'm snapping with purpose. I hardly ever use my compact because it was basically just a party camera which my iPhone can now do just as well.
This may sound weird but I like the click when taking photos on the slr too. I just don't think these new small mirrorless versions will compete.
I personally won't be changing. At the moment I see them as nothing more than a gimmick. They also look a bit......well, you know.......girly.
This may sound weird but I like the click when taking photos on the slr too. I just don't think these new small mirrorless versions will compete.
I personally won't be changing. At the moment I see them as nothing more than a gimmick. They also look a bit......well, you know.......girly.
andy-xr said:
Going the other way, I'm thinking about medium format, just need to justify it somehow
I had a brief foray into medium format but have just sold it, whilst the kit was nice to use I realised that unless I dropped £7k+ on a Phase One back for it I wasn't going to get the use out of it.I've been looking at the Micro 4/3 systems as a travel camera system investment. The latest high speed focus systems started to make them look attractive.
However impressive as they may be to get the range of facilities and options I think I would need I would have to buy a decent body (ie, probably not the cheaper and of the ranges) and 2 or 3 lenses. The longer lenses are not so small and they are not fast either. So my regular action shot shoots would be compromised and you need to go to the pancake lenses to get properly shallow DoF as far as I can tell.
I thought about a buy-use-sell approach but the used market does not seem to be buoyant enough to retain value too well - or at least didn't look like it was.
This may change and Sony seem to be keen to market small bodies that will use existing (large) lenses whilst they take time to develop a new range of dedicated lenses for the NEX format. Michael Reichmann's hands-on report for the NEX-7 (at The Luminous Landscape) suggests Sony may have something big on their hands very shortly.
I could see things developing in the middle market where a lot of DSLRs sold seem rarely to leave their storage cupboards.
If I was travelling regularly, especially for holidays, the middle size systems would make good sense. Even more so if one is keen on video as well. However for primary use I don't think they are quite there yet for my purposes. Could be soon though.
For 'always carry' use via shirt pocket (or whatever) the systems are still too large really. Nothing, except maybe a couple of phones with remarkably good cameras, beats my tiny (but ancient) Pentax S5i for pocketability.
I'm still considering things but in the meantime a Canon S90 arrived yesterday (refurb/B stock so not a huge investment). Having read the reports and seen Mr. Carter's results (From an S95 but afaik the optical side is the same and it was much cheaper than I could find an S95) it seems like a potential replacement for the Pentax. The S90 is somewhat larger and heavier but with a lot of additional capabilities. So far I am rather impressed. It even makes a good fist of macro stuff ... up to a point!
If the EVF systems continue to improve people who are used to optical viewfinders on lower and mid range DSLRs may find they have no reason to resist changing and potentially a number of reasons to make the switch. The key really is whether the mass of today's buyers want something that takes a top quality snap that is overkill on Facebook or Flickr or whether they end up seeking the creativity that comes more readily with larger sensors and fast lenses - shallow DoF and a 'creamy' image quality one finds, for example, in the FF arena in particular.
One of the keys to the ne marker areas is lens correction. By 'fixing' the images in pre-post-processing the lense designers can compromise the optical design and fix the problems (in the main) when creating the jpg. This allows them to design cheaper and smaller lenses but does nothing for lens speed. Whether either of those performance issues matter to a user depends on what they are looking for. It is, potentially, something of a tie-in for the manufacturers.
It's going to be an interesting marketplace for a year or two. I think we may see dslr product ranges thinning out at the consumer end of the market and prices rising at the upper end as the benefits of manufacturing scale start to be eroded.
Add in a double-dip recession and existing products that deliver as much as most people could possibly want for their regular use and one can see why some manufacturers are very keen to move into clearly identifiable different market areas.
However impressive as they may be to get the range of facilities and options I think I would need I would have to buy a decent body (ie, probably not the cheaper and of the ranges) and 2 or 3 lenses. The longer lenses are not so small and they are not fast either. So my regular action shot shoots would be compromised and you need to go to the pancake lenses to get properly shallow DoF as far as I can tell.
I thought about a buy-use-sell approach but the used market does not seem to be buoyant enough to retain value too well - or at least didn't look like it was.
This may change and Sony seem to be keen to market small bodies that will use existing (large) lenses whilst they take time to develop a new range of dedicated lenses for the NEX format. Michael Reichmann's hands-on report for the NEX-7 (at The Luminous Landscape) suggests Sony may have something big on their hands very shortly.
I could see things developing in the middle market where a lot of DSLRs sold seem rarely to leave their storage cupboards.
If I was travelling regularly, especially for holidays, the middle size systems would make good sense. Even more so if one is keen on video as well. However for primary use I don't think they are quite there yet for my purposes. Could be soon though.
For 'always carry' use via shirt pocket (or whatever) the systems are still too large really. Nothing, except maybe a couple of phones with remarkably good cameras, beats my tiny (but ancient) Pentax S5i for pocketability.
I'm still considering things but in the meantime a Canon S90 arrived yesterday (refurb/B stock so not a huge investment). Having read the reports and seen Mr. Carter's results (From an S95 but afaik the optical side is the same and it was much cheaper than I could find an S95) it seems like a potential replacement for the Pentax. The S90 is somewhat larger and heavier but with a lot of additional capabilities. So far I am rather impressed. It even makes a good fist of macro stuff ... up to a point!
If the EVF systems continue to improve people who are used to optical viewfinders on lower and mid range DSLRs may find they have no reason to resist changing and potentially a number of reasons to make the switch. The key really is whether the mass of today's buyers want something that takes a top quality snap that is overkill on Facebook or Flickr or whether they end up seeking the creativity that comes more readily with larger sensors and fast lenses - shallow DoF and a 'creamy' image quality one finds, for example, in the FF arena in particular.
One of the keys to the ne marker areas is lens correction. By 'fixing' the images in pre-post-processing the lense designers can compromise the optical design and fix the problems (in the main) when creating the jpg. This allows them to design cheaper and smaller lenses but does nothing for lens speed. Whether either of those performance issues matter to a user depends on what they are looking for. It is, potentially, something of a tie-in for the manufacturers.
It's going to be an interesting marketplace for a year or two. I think we may see dslr product ranges thinning out at the consumer end of the market and prices rising at the upper end as the benefits of manufacturing scale start to be eroded.
Add in a double-dip recession and existing products that deliver as much as most people could possibly want for their regular use and one can see why some manufacturers are very keen to move into clearly identifiable different market areas.
i don't have any experience of these new fangled thingamies. but what is their battery life like? the main thing i love about DSLRs is that startup time is minuscule and without live view the battery lasts forever.
i've got a pentax compact and as there's no viewfinder, the LCD is used for composing and it chews through batteries - they barely last a day of shooting.
also looking at the screen to compose just feels odd.
i've got a pentax compact and as there's no viewfinder, the LCD is used for composing and it chews through batteries - they barely last a day of shooting.
also looking at the screen to compose just feels odd.
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