burlesque, clueless, help needed!
Discussion
I'm being challenged to face my weaknesses head on... as a result have a location based burlesque(ish) shoot. Never done one. Any tips, pointers and experiences appreciated. Basically I want to avoid going downhill into a tawdry shoot like it's been shot in a cheap strip joint (it's not a cheap one...) but it needs to have a gritty feel. Lighting, poses, ways to overcome nerves... any suggestions appreciated!
Davi said:
I'm being challenged to face my weaknesses head on... as a result have a location based burlesque(ish) shoot. Never done one. Any tips, pointers and experiences appreciated. Basically I want to avoid going downhill into a tawdry shoot like it's been shot in a cheap strip joint (it's not a cheap one...) but it needs to have a gritty feel. Lighting, poses, ways to overcome nerves... any suggestions appreciated!
Can't help without more info. What's the location like? What kind of lighting is available?What sort of kit are you using?
Mr Snap said:
Can't help without more info. What's the location like? What kind of lighting is available?
What sort of kit are you using?
Location is most likely a strip club of reasonable 'class' (relatively speaking, obviously!) Lighting available = up to four Elinchrom BX500's with most modifiers available in a range of sizes but I'd like to keep lights to two if possible.What sort of kit are you using?
Kit wise - D700, lenses... 50mm 1.8, 24-70 2.8, 70-200 2.8
Edited by Davi on Thursday 17th November 19:38
Haven't done this but FWIW my 4p is:
Ignoring the fact of what they may or may not be wearing, I'd say you can either take an educated guess on lighting and improvise from there if you need to (with that much kit you're not a beginner!) or find some photos you like and reverse engineer them. After that I guess the biggest thing is whether you're doing reportage of an event or whether they're posing for you, in which case you'll need to direct a bit.
As said this isn't my field so I might be completely wrong, but that's how I'd tackle it (and visit the venue beforehand to judge distances, positions, power sockets etc).
Ignoring the fact of what they may or may not be wearing, I'd say you can either take an educated guess on lighting and improvise from there if you need to (with that much kit you're not a beginner!) or find some photos you like and reverse engineer them. After that I guess the biggest thing is whether you're doing reportage of an event or whether they're posing for you, in which case you'll need to direct a bit.
As said this isn't my field so I might be completely wrong, but that's how I'd tackle it (and visit the venue beforehand to judge distances, positions, power sockets etc).
the lighting rigs are borrowed, That's the bit I'm a real beginner at as I've more commonly used reflectors in natural light or speedlights.
The kind of thing I'd like to achieve is like this
http://roadtrip20.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/marg...
I've linked as it's a burlesque image, some bosses may find it unsuitable for their equipment to portray, particularly if you work in an Amish community, but in reality it's a fully dressed woman so should be reasonably safe yadda yadda yadda NSFW NSFW think of the children!
The kind of thing I'd like to achieve is like this
http://roadtrip20.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/marg...
I've linked as it's a burlesque image, some bosses may find it unsuitable for their equipment to portray, particularly if you work in an Amish community, but in reality it's a fully dressed woman so should be reasonably safe yadda yadda yadda NSFW NSFW think of the children!
Davi said:
the lighting rigs are borrowed, That's the bit I'm a real beginner at as I've more commonly used reflectors in natural light or speedlights.
Studio lighting is easier/nicer to use than Speedlights once you get the hang of them. Modifiers are limitless so to keep it simple I'd stay with softboxes (eg one big for fill, one small for key) rather than get in a mess on the day with everyone watching. Remember distance is as important as power.Davi said:
The kind of thing I'd like to achieve is like this
Looks like a proper studio shot not a strip club. Don't do fashion so I'm going to bail out and hand over to someone like Bacardi, who does 
Thats probably a beauty dish with some fill, fairly easy to do. The smoke is fake (I think)
Lighting tbh isn't the issue here, it's rapport. Get the model working and push them to do crazy things. Then you'll get what you're after, the rest should just fall into place. That photo could be done with a soft box, it couldn't be done with a fat trucker from Grimsby called Trev
Lighting tbh isn't the issue here, it's rapport. Get the model working and push them to do crazy things. Then you'll get what you're after, the rest should just fall into place. That photo could be done with a soft box, it couldn't be done with a fat trucker from Grimsby called Trev
I'm no photographer but..
The biggest problem with live venues like that (any club/music venue) is that they are often pretty tatty when you see them in decent light, even the nice ones. It seems to me you either need to work with it (model sprawled over the grimy back stairs), or against it (completely separate them from the background).
Can you get access to the place before hand (a day or so in advance) with a stooge that you can run off some practise shots with, try out some lighting, find good areas to work in? That way you can work out what you want to do on the day, rather than trying to juggle a model and the location at the same time.
The biggest problem with live venues like that (any club/music venue) is that they are often pretty tatty when you see them in decent light, even the nice ones. It seems to me you either need to work with it (model sprawled over the grimy back stairs), or against it (completely separate them from the background).
Can you get access to the place before hand (a day or so in advance) with a stooge that you can run off some practise shots with, try out some lighting, find good areas to work in? That way you can work out what you want to do on the day, rather than trying to juggle a model and the location at the same time.
I'll probably get flamed by the 'Togs for this, but looking from a slightly different perspective, maybe think about some after effects. Certain colour moves or even monochrome can add a definite style which is classical Burlesque.
If you capture the entire tonal range without blowing the highlight or filling the shadow, the files will be quite adaptable in post.
Also look at some of the Dita Von Teese images which can be quite the opposite with high colour saturation etc.
It's establishing a relevant style that doesn't cheapen the effect.
I appreciate you are working to a brief, so disregard this if not in line with what is required.
It's just a thought.
If you capture the entire tonal range without blowing the highlight or filling the shadow, the files will be quite adaptable in post.
Also look at some of the Dita Von Teese images which can be quite the opposite with high colour saturation etc.
It's establishing a relevant style that doesn't cheapen the effect.
I appreciate you are working to a brief, so disregard this if not in line with what is required.
It's just a thought.
Davi said:
Yeah I'll be doing a reccie of the venue, even if I have to pay to get in No way I'm going in blind. I doubt they would be happy about me going in with a camera on a general night though...
Go in during the day when you can get round the place unmolested and with a camera in hand. No way I'm going in blind. I doubt they would be happy about me going in with a camera on a general night though...I'd be looking to work with whatver light is being used in the club, no flash and use a fast lens.
Here's some of mine...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/grantgb/sets/72157622...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/grantgb/sets/72157622...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/grantgb/sets/72157625...
Here's some of mine...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/grantgb/sets/72157622...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/grantgb/sets/72157622...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/grantgb/sets/72157625...
Davi said:
the lighting rigs are borrowed, That's the bit I'm a real beginner at as I've more commonly used reflectors in natural light or speedlights.
The kind of thing I'd like to achieve is like this
http://roadtrip20.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/marg...
I've linked as it's a burlesque image, some bosses may find it unsuitable for their equipment to portray, particularly if you work in an Amish community, but in reality it's a fully dressed woman so should be reasonably safe yadda yadda yadda NSFW NSFW think of the children!
Probably shot with two lights, a small softbox key (to camera right) and a big one for fill (camera left) - as someone else said. Also a wide angle lens - you can see the distortion.The kind of thing I'd like to achieve is like this
http://roadtrip20.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/marg...
I've linked as it's a burlesque image, some bosses may find it unsuitable for their equipment to portray, particularly if you work in an Amish community, but in reality it's a fully dressed woman so should be reasonably safe yadda yadda yadda NSFW NSFW think of the children!
What the other bloke said re clubs looking tatty is true, Work with or against.
Personally, I'd try to see what I could do with the stage lighting in the club itself along with your wide aperture 50mm. If you must use flash, keep it simple, one big softbox should do. Get models to look into the light, to flatter the face, but to turn their bodies at an angle to the light, to flatter the figure.
The models will want to look sexy, even if they're fully dressed. Sexy is in the head, encourage your models to think their way into feeling, rather than just looking, sexy. Get them to close their eyes and think about it. Giving them a prop to hold will help. You're allowed to do all this, you're a photographer, the rules are different.
If all else fails give them chocolate.
Pixel Pusher said:
I'll probably get flamed by the 'Togs for this, but looking from a slightly different perspective, maybe think about some after effects. Certain colour moves or even monochrome can add a definite style which is classical Burlesque.
It's a good thought, but it's specifically about behind the camera for this one. Dita Von Teese is indeed someone who's images I have been looking at!Nick Grant said:
I'd be looking to work with whatver light is being used in the club, no flash and use a fast lens.
Cheers Nick some lovely work in there as always! What sort of settings were you on to get those? From what I've learned of the place so far its very dark so may not be feasible but worth a punt!Mr Snap said:
If all else fails give them chocolate.
universal rule of women.Simpo Two said:
... someone like Bacardi, who does
No, not me mate, I retired from Burlesque dancing... kept laddering my stockings with the Ostrich feathers. I'm on safer ground with knitwear. To the OP, as mentioned, the club might be fairly scruffy in the cold light of day (or even warm studio lights). They're designed for show and cabaret, were the girls usually do a bit of jiggling around to music and a mild striptease. That may be great for reportage pics using available light, but might not be so much fun if you want to reproduce something like your example. There will most probably be something like ceiling spot lights onto the stage, which you won't be able to move or control easily.
If you want to treat it as a stills shoot, you'll be better off with the studio lights. Use props, if available, like chairs, chaise lounge etc. As well as boxes, try snoots honeycombs, reflectors with barn doors. Make the light more intimate, moody. Think boudoir. Girls who do burlesque aren't usually shrinking violets, so should be well up for it, so don't think you'll have too much trouble there. Just experiment and have fun!
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