Colour calibration
Discussion
Not sure if this is the right section but I assume it's probably best here vs computing.
I can find loads of guides telling me how to do different bits of the process, but none that go through the whole lot from camera to print, or camera to a standard like sRGB or something.
I've always noted it as being important and always tried to get things looking right, but never really 'get' what is going on.
For example, in Adobe CS5 apps you have a colour profile system now which 'unifies' all the apps and it tells you if that is the case or not. But the problem is I have no idea which is the right default.
I have a HP2475 screen for my main colour important stuff, and in the colour management settings on there I have selected sRGB and that seems to have a wide gamut of colours which seems correct for the wide colour range specified in sRGB.
Then in windows apps like PS I have a choice of SRGB IEC61966-2.1, or Adobe RGB, or HP2475 for my screen.
In the past I used one of those monitor spider calibration things which then creates ANOTHER look up table profile, but I never knew what I had to do with the profile. The screen changed at load time, but did that mean I was creating/saving image colour profiles in my own custom profile, or was the calibration simply tweaking sRGB standard (perhaps) values to look correct on my screen only to match what they should do?
How does that then work with printers?
Then there are a ton of different ways to load/save profiles for different devices via windows, via gfx cards, via apps themselves...
I've googled but most stuff seems to go as far as do XYZ and it's all ok, but it's not as I've done that before many times, even with £100 colour calibration tools for your monitor! (ie, two quality IPS screens 4 years ago not matching at al lafter the full spyder colour calibration treatment)
Does anyone know how, or know any good tutorials for a full start to finish work-through to get the input, editing and output fully controlled?
Many thanks for any help
Dave
I can find loads of guides telling me how to do different bits of the process, but none that go through the whole lot from camera to print, or camera to a standard like sRGB or something.
I've always noted it as being important and always tried to get things looking right, but never really 'get' what is going on.
For example, in Adobe CS5 apps you have a colour profile system now which 'unifies' all the apps and it tells you if that is the case or not. But the problem is I have no idea which is the right default.
I have a HP2475 screen for my main colour important stuff, and in the colour management settings on there I have selected sRGB and that seems to have a wide gamut of colours which seems correct for the wide colour range specified in sRGB.
Then in windows apps like PS I have a choice of SRGB IEC61966-2.1, or Adobe RGB, or HP2475 for my screen.
In the past I used one of those monitor spider calibration things which then creates ANOTHER look up table profile, but I never knew what I had to do with the profile. The screen changed at load time, but did that mean I was creating/saving image colour profiles in my own custom profile, or was the calibration simply tweaking sRGB standard (perhaps) values to look correct on my screen only to match what they should do?
How does that then work with printers?
Then there are a ton of different ways to load/save profiles for different devices via windows, via gfx cards, via apps themselves...
I've googled but most stuff seems to go as far as do XYZ and it's all ok, but it's not as I've done that before many times, even with £100 colour calibration tools for your monitor! (ie, two quality IPS screens 4 years ago not matching at al lafter the full spyder colour calibration treatment)
Does anyone know how, or know any good tutorials for a full start to finish work-through to get the input, editing and output fully controlled?
Many thanks for any help
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Does anyone know how, or know any good tutorials for a full start to finish work-through to get the input, editing and output fully controlled?
I think Colour (Color) Management is subject of a Masters Degree at the University of Bloody Hard Stuff and if Brian Amazing Cox tried he's only come away with an "F"......I chilled out when I realised I don't do a job which involves getting paid for producing the right pantone for Coca Cola Red and life's just too short.
Not trying to belittle your question, but it's easy to get quite stressed!!
I try and absorb stuff like: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/unders...
sRGB / AdobeRGB etc are colour spaces, a gamut of colours that can be used.
If you calibrate your setup you'll still need to choose a colour space. I use AdobeRGB for editing as it keeps more information that sRGB but if you put images up for web use in AdobeRGB most browsers will display them awfully, muddy, dull, unpleasant. For web use I convert from AdobeRGB TIFF which I use for archiving down to sRGB jpeg.
If you want an all in one calibration system I can recommend Colormunki Display, it calibrates screens and can print out calibration charts you can then read back with the unit to create printer calibration profiles for your own printer with whatever paper and ink you use.
If you calibrate your setup you'll still need to choose a colour space. I use AdobeRGB for editing as it keeps more information that sRGB but if you put images up for web use in AdobeRGB most browsers will display them awfully, muddy, dull, unpleasant. For web use I convert from AdobeRGB TIFF which I use for archiving down to sRGB jpeg.
If you want an all in one calibration system I can recommend Colormunki Display, it calibrates screens and can print out calibration charts you can then read back with the unit to create printer calibration profiles for your own printer with whatever paper and ink you use.
So you calibrate your screen/printer for a colour space?
Ie, sRGB is like a colour standard a bit like pantone for cmyk, but for digitally expressed colours instead.
So you need to make sure your digital device is putting out sRGB value X by checking it is, and adjusting the calibration if not so that when computer says sRGB colour X you are seeing what X should look like on any device meeting sRGB standard?
That makes sense, but how in practice do profiles vs calibrations work?
It doesn't seem so logical how colour values are managed from the saved file through to what you see on screen via different apps, to how they get printed.
I just want to know what is messing with colour values and what isn't, and what is 'default' if there is such a thing... in PS I can respect profiles, ignore them, or convert to the working profile.
Surely if you convert then values are changed but I thought the whole point of profiles for colour was that they work as a layer between files and displays/printers to make the colours look correct... hmmmm... a bit like translating a language. Just keep it all in one language and translate (that is the calibration profile?) for MY devices (which work in a certain colour space?)
Like Beano said, I've got by for years without worrying too much.
It just seems most people don't get what is really going on, they just install stuff and it magically works but it doesn't help me in this case. Ie, rendering some video for anaglyph viewing, if my input imagery is bad because it's profiled badly and the rendering app doesn't see the profile then it's out there, then when I watch the animation if the monitor is showing it wrong then I make bad judgements there too.
Again, I'm not having problems per se, but I want to know that is because things are working right not just because of luck
I might have to sink some cash into a decent book on the subject but it does seem to be a problem more for windows to have layers and layers of controls for essentially the same thing, colour control.
Just like the array of volume controls we have these days. Volume on speakers, volume on windows, volume per application in windows, volume inside an application... I guess the same is true for colour control and it just seems a touch messier and less obvious with colour control
I'm guessing for now setting EVERYTHING to sRGB is best, and then calibrating my screen specifically to check it's giving sRGB colours properly when asked.
Then I can match my printer to the sRGB profile too, I guess with another calibration profile... so the system is sRGB, and two calibration files convert those values properly so they appear correct on my outputs...
Hmmm
Dave
Ie, sRGB is like a colour standard a bit like pantone for cmyk, but for digitally expressed colours instead.
So you need to make sure your digital device is putting out sRGB value X by checking it is, and adjusting the calibration if not so that when computer says sRGB colour X you are seeing what X should look like on any device meeting sRGB standard?
That makes sense, but how in practice do profiles vs calibrations work?
It doesn't seem so logical how colour values are managed from the saved file through to what you see on screen via different apps, to how they get printed.
I just want to know what is messing with colour values and what isn't, and what is 'default' if there is such a thing... in PS I can respect profiles, ignore them, or convert to the working profile.
Surely if you convert then values are changed but I thought the whole point of profiles for colour was that they work as a layer between files and displays/printers to make the colours look correct... hmmmm... a bit like translating a language. Just keep it all in one language and translate (that is the calibration profile?) for MY devices (which work in a certain colour space?)
Like Beano said, I've got by for years without worrying too much.
It just seems most people don't get what is really going on, they just install stuff and it magically works but it doesn't help me in this case. Ie, rendering some video for anaglyph viewing, if my input imagery is bad because it's profiled badly and the rendering app doesn't see the profile then it's out there, then when I watch the animation if the monitor is showing it wrong then I make bad judgements there too.
Again, I'm not having problems per se, but I want to know that is because things are working right not just because of luck
I might have to sink some cash into a decent book on the subject but it does seem to be a problem more for windows to have layers and layers of controls for essentially the same thing, colour control.
Just like the array of volume controls we have these days. Volume on speakers, volume on windows, volume per application in windows, volume inside an application... I guess the same is true for colour control and it just seems a touch messier and less obvious with colour control
I'm guessing for now setting EVERYTHING to sRGB is best, and then calibrating my screen specifically to check it's giving sRGB colours properly when asked.
Then I can match my printer to the sRGB profile too, I guess with another calibration profile... so the system is sRGB, and two calibration files convert those values properly so they appear correct on my outputs...
Hmmm
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 26th July 13:56
I have used colormunki for screen and printer calibration for years. I shoot in sRGB except studio work (Adobe RGB) which I extensively edit anyway. That seems fine for me; Nikon D700's, LR3 and PS CS5. PC and HP ZR24w on HDMI is the edit screen of a twin screen set up.
I have tried calibrating the camera with mcBeth colorchart but found the reds too strong for my taste so just use the camera uncalibrated and in camera standard picture controls.
I have tried calibrating the camera with mcBeth colorchart but found the reds too strong for my taste so just use the camera uncalibrated and in camera standard picture controls.
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