Which DSLR as a first camera
Discussion
My youngest Son (13) enjoys taking pictures and has a few good results from using his cheapo compact digtital camera. He wants to step it up a gear and that means a DSLR.
I know nothing about which brands are good (or bad) or which model would be suitable. I dont want to break the bank as its his first DSLR and he may not carry on, but equally I dont want to buy something crap that doesnt take decent shots as it will discourage him.
I was thinking of around £150 but having looked on amazon I may have underestimated how much even a bottom of the range camera costs!. I would prefer something new but will go second hand if thats where the smart money is.
I would also like to get him a book , can anyone recommend a good one for a novice to learn some tips and tricks ?
I know nothing about which brands are good (or bad) or which model would be suitable. I dont want to break the bank as its his first DSLR and he may not carry on, but equally I dont want to buy something crap that doesnt take decent shots as it will discourage him.
I was thinking of around £150 but having looked on amazon I may have underestimated how much even a bottom of the range camera costs!. I would prefer something new but will go second hand if thats where the smart money is.
I would also like to get him a book , can anyone recommend a good one for a novice to learn some tips and tricks ?
Thats what I thought - plenty of second hand bodies on amazon for sub £120 , have to add a lens of course so probably break the budget....
So any recommendations or should I just go for brand names - Canon and Nikon are the ones I know should I just stick with something from one of those ?
ETA a quick search came up with this for ~£70 Canon EOS 300D Digital SLR Camera [6MP] with EF18-55mm Lens
or this for ~£150 Canon EOS 350D Digital SLR Camera (18-55mm Lens Kit)
or this for ~£100 Olympus E500 Kit DSLR with 14-45mm lens [equiv. 28-90mm] [8MP]
The only thing I do know is not to worry about the Megapixels - I hate being such a dunce !
So any recommendations or should I just go for brand names - Canon and Nikon are the ones I know should I just stick with something from one of those ?
ETA a quick search came up with this for ~£70 Canon EOS 300D Digital SLR Camera [6MP] with EF18-55mm Lens
or this for ~£150 Canon EOS 350D Digital SLR Camera (18-55mm Lens Kit)
or this for ~£100 Olympus E500 Kit DSLR with 14-45mm lens [equiv. 28-90mm] [8MP]
The only thing I do know is not to worry about the Megapixels - I hate being such a dunce !
Edited by Dodsy on Friday 1st March 12:28
Personally I'd stick with either Canon or Nikon, at least then it'll have a reasonable resale value in the event that your Son decides he doesn't want to continue.
Have a look at the Canon ebay outlet - they have some very good deals, but they'll still be over budget.
Also worth looking at mpb photographic - they do a lot of second hand stuff and have a good reputation... chances are though, that the canon outlet will be better value.
Have a look at the Canon ebay outlet - they have some very good deals, but they'll still be over budget.
Also worth looking at mpb photographic - they do a lot of second hand stuff and have a good reputation... chances are though, that the canon outlet will be better value.
Dodsy said:
I was thinking of around £150 but having looked on amazon I may have underestimated how much even a bottom of the range camera costs!. I would prefer something new but will go second hand if thats where the smart money is.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-EOS-400D-Digital-SLR-w-EF-S-18-55mm-f-3-5-5-6-II-Kit-Lens-/261176149997?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN&hash=item3ccf4fc7edIf you can push for a little more, consider a Canon 400D. Very popular camera in it's day, and I have a couple here. One is my personal camera (about 50k images so far), and the other is a work camera with around 150k images on it. I've won a few competitions with mine so they are capable of producing some decent images.
The last 3 400Ds I've bought have all been s/h off Ebay and one of them (my camera) was absolutely perfect. One was good condition, the 3rd one decidedly average. But that said, they all did what they were designed to.
Completely disagree that stepping it up means automatically jumping into DSLRs and lenses.
Next logical progression in my view is a bridge camera, and for the budget (just a bit over), you'd be hard pressed to better the Fuji HS30.
If a DSLR is going to be vehemently stuck to, then DON'T just look at Canon or Nikon, there's Pentax K and Sony A series cameras to consider as well.
Each brand has more than enough lenses to pick and choose from now, and in the future.
Next logical progression in my view is a bridge camera, and for the budget (just a bit over), you'd be hard pressed to better the Fuji HS30.
If a DSLR is going to be vehemently stuck to, then DON'T just look at Canon or Nikon, there's Pentax K and Sony A series cameras to consider as well.
Each brand has more than enough lenses to pick and choose from now, and in the future.
There are plenty of other marques that have second hand lenses and bodies.... but Canon & Nikon have by far the most.
Once you have a body or two and 10 lenses, it's very expensive to jump ship. Many other cameras will take great / equally good photos... but just look at any photo shoot and see what cameras are generally used by pro 'togs. It's no surprise that most of us in here will advise to stick to the two market leaders.
(Speaking as someone who is hopefully about to buy another, different brand - I, like most that give this advice, have no axe to grind).
Once you have a body or two and 10 lenses, it's very expensive to jump ship. Many other cameras will take great / equally good photos... but just look at any photo shoot and see what cameras are generally used by pro 'togs. It's no surprise that most of us in here will advise to stick to the two market leaders.
(Speaking as someone who is hopefully about to buy another, different brand - I, like most that give this advice, have no axe to grind).
Simpo Two said:
D50 would be a good place to start; I was surprised when it was 'replaced' by the D40. Also consider the D80.
You'll need a lens too; a Nikon 18-70mm AF-S lens would serve well if you can find one for the budget.
D80 would be my vote as well, has built in AF motor meaning non AF-S lenses will still autofocus, get him a cheap 50mm 1.8 and let him use his feet to zoom You'll need a lens too; a Nikon 18-70mm AF-S lens would serve well if you can find one for the budget.
GetCarter said:
There are plenty of other marques that have second hand lenses and bodies.... but Canon & Nikon have by far the most.
Once you have a body or two and 10 lenses, it's very expensive to jump ship. Many other cameras will take great / equally good photos... but just look at any photo shoot and see what cameras are generally used by pro 'togs. It's no surprise that most of us in here will advise to stick to the two market leaders.
(Speaking as someone who is hopefully about to buy another, different brand - I, like most that give this advice, have no axe to grind).
I have only an axe to grind at tiresome recommendations centred around the two big brands, without taking into consideration the age of the user, the level of the user, and the long game.Once you have a body or two and 10 lenses, it's very expensive to jump ship. Many other cameras will take great / equally good photos... but just look at any photo shoot and see what cameras are generally used by pro 'togs. It's no surprise that most of us in here will advise to stick to the two market leaders.
(Speaking as someone who is hopefully about to buy another, different brand - I, like most that give this advice, have no axe to grind).
In other words, it's not a big deal until such times as you're talking about Pro bodies, and lenses at costing £600 or more.
You only need to look at ebay's completed listings for Pentax and Sony, to see there's no shortage of buyers at strong prices.
I also believe Pentax and Sony both bring more to the table at their respective price points than the big two do.
Where does Canikon's weatherproofing begin? D7000/60D, that's where.
Where's Pentax's? K10 back in 2006
So the whole 'stick with Canikon' saga grates on me due to that's where the game is at Pro level, at the moment - the OP's son isn't even remotely close to advanced consumer, yet the consensus is 'buy only a Canikon, don't even look at other offerings', which may be preferred ergonomically or for menu design/control layout.
This is the problem with pros offering advice to starters - when was the last time they bothered to use an entry level or 4-5 generations old body properly, as well as the alternatives?
Like I said, I believe a DSLR is not required at this point, but a good bridge will allow the OP's son to get to grips with something better than he's using currently, and then if the love affair with photography develops, start saving towards a DSLR and a couple of lenses at focal lengths suited to what type of photography he's most into.
We've looked at Bridge and DSLR's , he knows what he wants to try and a bridge wont do it. For ~£150 on ebay there is just about every possible model and manufacturer of DSLR to choose from so I think at this stage we'll just take pot luck with one of the recommendations from this thread then see where it takes us.
Once he's had a play with whatever I buy him he'll be able to form an opinion about what he does/doesnt like and what he wants to achieve. That will then inform the decision for the next camera/upgrade - but right now we have nothing to base a decision on so we'll just jump in and learn by experience.
Once he's had a play with whatever I buy him he'll be able to form an opinion about what he does/doesnt like and what he wants to achieve. That will then inform the decision for the next camera/upgrade - but right now we have nothing to base a decision on so we'll just jump in and learn by experience.
I would suggest going for one of the entry level dSLR cameras too. They have guides built in that explain things better, mid-range and up they tend to assume you know what you're doing so a bit of extra studying is required to get going.
At 13 I wouldn't worry about brands and buying a £600 lens in the future or whatever, he'll probably want to change brands and upgrade as he gets older, finds his style and has his own money anyway - if he sticks with it that is.
I'm pretty sure the majority of dSLRs in this world spend their time in draws after putting off their owners who don't see much difference between it and their iPhones. So while I'd recommend a dSLR over a bridge, I say keep it entry level.
At 13 I wouldn't worry about brands and buying a £600 lens in the future or whatever, he'll probably want to change brands and upgrade as he gets older, finds his style and has his own money anyway - if he sticks with it that is.
I'm pretty sure the majority of dSLRs in this world spend their time in draws after putting off their owners who don't see much difference between it and their iPhones. So while I'd recommend a dSLR over a bridge, I say keep it entry level.
I would look at (through actually) their viewfinders,
some are like looking down a narrow little tunnel and may put him off.
I seem to remember that the Nikon D80 had a good viefinder,
the D40 was just about okay but the D50 I believe
was even smaller.
Although on the face of it a kit zoom might seem like a good idea,
a relatively fast 'standard' prime lens might be a better bet.
He will be able to shoot at higher shutter speeds (than with a slower zoom)
so helping to avoid camera shake and could better capture
a subject that is not staying still.
Although picture taking is not about the equipment,
I'm sure it would help his enthusiasm if he owns something
he likes and is proud of.
As to make of camera ...... I do see all the arguments for sticking to the big
two but at his stage I really don't think it's that important (but get a D80
).
One important aspect that is forgotten as to why the pros use the big two, is because they offer the pros a service for repair, and an ease of hiring that seldom called for item required for just one job; those are services that
no amateur needs.
some are like looking down a narrow little tunnel and may put him off.
I seem to remember that the Nikon D80 had a good viefinder,
the D40 was just about okay but the D50 I believe
was even smaller.
Although on the face of it a kit zoom might seem like a good idea,
a relatively fast 'standard' prime lens might be a better bet.
He will be able to shoot at higher shutter speeds (than with a slower zoom)
so helping to avoid camera shake and could better capture
a subject that is not staying still.
Although picture taking is not about the equipment,
I'm sure it would help his enthusiasm if he owns something
he likes and is proud of.
As to make of camera ...... I do see all the arguments for sticking to the big
two but at his stage I really don't think it's that important (but get a D80
).One important aspect that is forgotten as to why the pros use the big two, is because they offer the pros a service for repair, and an ease of hiring that seldom called for item required for just one job; those are services that
no amateur needs.
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