Discussion
Pondering at the thought of purchasing myself a used DSLR + a entry level prime lens. I don't really need zoom much, I mainly want it for portraits/people and during social gatherings with family/friends to get that shallow depth of field. Like a cheap version of a X100S if you will. Budget, perhaps around £300? Such a thing doable?
I hear that the first crop of consumer DSLRs (D70, 300D) are now about £100 for the body. £80 will get you a 50mm f1.8 'standard' lens for your portraits and shallow DOF, and then you'll need something with wider angle for social gatherings. So maybe look for an early DSLR with kit lens (eg 18-55) and add a 50mm.
Careful with the old nikons.
Many of them lack a body motor and the older f1.8 50mm is not AF-S so wont autofocus.
You will need either the new af-s f1.8 or a really old nikon with the motor.
IMO the older non af-s f1.8 isnt the best lens anyhow, and older nikons struggle at higher ISO more than older canons (this changed at about the d90).
Many of them lack a body motor and the older f1.8 50mm is not AF-S so wont autofocus.
You will need either the new af-s f1.8 or a really old nikon with the motor.
IMO the older non af-s f1.8 isnt the best lens anyhow, and older nikons struggle at higher ISO more than older canons (this changed at about the d90).
RobDickinson said:
Careful with the old nikons.
Many of them lack a body motor and the older f1.8 50mm is not AF-S so wont autofocus.
You will need either the new af-s f1.8 or a really old nikon with the motor.
Like the D70 and D50. It was only with introduction of the D40 that they started taking the motor out, thus needing AF-S lenses for autofocus.Many of them lack a body motor and the older f1.8 50mm is not AF-S so wont autofocus.
You will need either the new af-s f1.8 or a really old nikon with the motor.
I shot weddings with a D70 goddammit and lived to survive the tale!
Well knowing what I do now, not that much mind 
I'd take a slightly different slant on things.
I'd think about what lenses I need, for what I want to do, then think about the body.
Pains me to say it but the only manufacturer with lens [fitting not all functions] continuity is Nikon.
There are some very desirable "old" lenses that can be used with [other] makes, but only with a lot of expensive fettleling...
I'd take a slightly different slant on things. I'd think about what lenses I need, for what I want to do, then think about the body.
Pains me to say it but the only manufacturer with lens [fitting not all functions] continuity is Nikon.
There are some very desirable "old" lenses that can be used with [other] makes, but only with a lot of expensive fettleling...
Thanks for the reply guys really appriciate it. So the consensus is a canon 400/500d or nikon 5100?
Because of the crop factor of the APC sensors would a 50mm or 35mm one be better in terms of DOF if you were taking a photo of someone across a table from you (for example).
You also mention use of other rare/cheap lenses, in that case nikon would be best?
Because of the crop factor of the APC sensors would a 50mm or 35mm one be better in terms of DOF if you were taking a photo of someone across a table from you (for example).
You also mention use of other rare/cheap lenses, in that case nikon would be best?
ambuletz said:
Thanks for the reply guys really appriciate it. So the consensus is a canon 400/500d or nikon 5100?
Because of the crop factor of the APC sensors would a 50mm or 35mm one be better in terms of DOF if you were taking a photo of someone across a table from you (for example).
You also mention use of other rare/cheap lenses, in that case nikon would be best?
At 'across the table' distance any quick lens should give you fairly narrow dof. Depends what you want of course, but I'd find 50mm ok for groups of people at a party, but a bit wide for individual portraits. Can really use 85mm all the way to 200mm for that. Like I said though, depends on what you want to achieve Because of the crop factor of the APC sensors would a 50mm or 35mm one be better in terms of DOF if you were taking a photo of someone across a table from you (for example).
You also mention use of other rare/cheap lenses, in that case nikon would be best?
In terms of the right focal length, both manufacturers have fairly affordable 50mm lenses on offer. But as alluded to by previous folk, for Nikon you'll need a camera body with a 'focusing drive screw' to have autofocus on older (non AF-S) lenses.
Nikon does have a well regarded 35mm AF-S lens at a decent price though - http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-nikon-35mm-f1-8...
ambuletz said:
Thanks for the reply guys really appriciate it. So the consensus is a canon 400/500d or nikon 5100?
Because of the crop factor of the APC sensors would a 50mm or 35mm one be better in terms of DOF if you were taking a photo of someone across a table from you (for example).
You also mention use of other rare/cheap lenses, in that case nikon would be best?
Opening a bag of worms...however...Because of the crop factor of the APC sensors would a 50mm or 35mm one be better in terms of DOF if you were taking a photo of someone across a table from you (for example).
You also mention use of other rare/cheap lenses, in that case nikon would be best?
DOF rules http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSm1J9d15Gk
cropped sensors screw you over in your example. sucks I KNOW
As having owned Canons for many years [ok on and off hobby wise] it pains me to say that some of the best leaded glass lenses produced do not match their current fitting optically OR more importantly for me in their feel and robustness.
Adapters, no, it's a compromise. You need to physically machine the lens to match the focal plane distance and not add glass.
Edited by Mojocvh on Sunday 21st July 19:20
Mojocvh said:
Well knowing what I do now, not that much mind I'd take a slightly different slant on things.
I'd think about what lenses I need, for what I want to do, then think about the body.
Pains me to say it but the only manufacturer with lens [fitting not all functions] continuity is Nikon.
There are some very desirable "old" lenses that can be used with [other] makes, but only with a lot of expensive fettleling...
I prefer the Canon approach - Every lens since 1987 is fully compatible with every camera. No hassles, no workarounds, no works except for... caveats. I'd take a slightly different slant on things. I'd think about what lenses I need, for what I want to do, then think about the body.
Pains me to say it but the only manufacturer with lens [fitting not all functions] continuity is Nikon.
There are some very desirable "old" lenses that can be used with [other] makes, but only with a lot of expensive fettleling...
If it's an EF lens then it works.
If it was a new system I might have swung the other way but after 25 years of producing lenses there is no shortage of them and pretty much no niche uncovered.
There are more EF lenses than F mount lenses .. and old F mount lenses often work better on Canon's than on cheaper Nikon's.
Though there are enough of both.
The only lenses that dont work so well on canon is canons own Fd. Mount. But dont worry as there are plenty of good modern lenses for both systems
Though there are enough of both.
The only lenses that dont work so well on canon is canons own Fd. Mount. But dont worry as there are plenty of good modern lenses for both systems
Nikon D90's are down to as little as £200 these days. £50 on a 50mm 1.8 and another £50 on flash and you'd have a nice little set up. The D90 has a screw drive so no issues there.
The smaller Nikons (D3000, D3100, D5000, D5100 etc) will likely offer better IQ and features pound for pound (the D5100 looks exceptional vfm) than the bigger Nikons but I find them a little fiddly to use. Swapping to spot metering for example is a few button presses of menu delving rather than a flick of a switch. Adjusting the aperture requires you to hold down a button whilst rotating the back wheel (unless in aperture priority mode) and you can't dial exposure compensation in manual mode without delving into the menus again, which is a nuisance if you use Nikon's excellent auto iso in manual. I guess some of this won't bother many but worth highlighting.
The smaller Nikons (D3000, D3100, D5000, D5100 etc) will likely offer better IQ and features pound for pound (the D5100 looks exceptional vfm) than the bigger Nikons but I find them a little fiddly to use. Swapping to spot metering for example is a few button presses of menu delving rather than a flick of a switch. Adjusting the aperture requires you to hold down a button whilst rotating the back wheel (unless in aperture priority mode) and you can't dial exposure compensation in manual mode without delving into the menus again, which is a nuisance if you use Nikon's excellent auto iso in manual. I guess some of this won't bother many but worth highlighting.
I have a D5100, and it is an excellent camera. I have thoroughly enjoyed using it over the last year and a half. I would agree that it can be fiddly to change some of the settings by having to use the on-screen menu, but that is the trade-off for having a smaller, lighter, body than the bigger models like the D7000 and above - there's less space for the extra butons. Sometime the menu is easier though, especially when just starting out - I bought my camera with no existing photography experience and found it helful that everything is in one place and immediately obvious on the screen.
As for not having a built in focus motor, this hasn't been an issue at all for me. All modern Nikon lenses are AF-S anyway so focus fine, and there are plenty of affordable lens options. You just need to be aware of the lack of built in motor before buying up old lenses. They'll still fit fine, but you would need manually focus them.
The AF-S 35mm lens is excellent and one of my favourites. It's very good for shooting people shots indoors where I find that 50mm can be a bit too long on a crop sensor. Outdoors, something a bit longer may be helpful, but you'll still get fantastic shots with the 35mm.
Might also be worth looking for deals either side of a D5100. D3100 is the model below in the range, but also a decent camera and likely to be cheaper. The D7000 is the model above and is a superb bit of kit but as it has only just been replaced by the D7100, used prices may still be higher than you want to spend. The older D90, which was replaced by the D7000 is also still a decent camera.
As for not having a built in focus motor, this hasn't been an issue at all for me. All modern Nikon lenses are AF-S anyway so focus fine, and there are plenty of affordable lens options. You just need to be aware of the lack of built in motor before buying up old lenses. They'll still fit fine, but you would need manually focus them.
The AF-S 35mm lens is excellent and one of my favourites. It's very good for shooting people shots indoors where I find that 50mm can be a bit too long on a crop sensor. Outdoors, something a bit longer may be helpful, but you'll still get fantastic shots with the 35mm.
Might also be worth looking for deals either side of a D5100. D3100 is the model below in the range, but also a decent camera and likely to be cheaper. The D7000 is the model above and is a superb bit of kit but as it has only just been replaced by the D7100, used prices may still be higher than you want to spend. The older D90, which was replaced by the D7000 is also still a decent camera.
ChipsAndCheese said:
I have a D5100, and it is an excellent camera. I have thoroughly enjoyed using it over the last year and a half. I would agree that it can be fiddly to change some of the settings by having to use the on-screen menu, but that is the trade-off for having a smaller, lighter, body than the bigger models like the D7000 and above - there's less space for the extra butons. Sometime the menu is easier though, especially when just starting out - I bought my camera with no existing photography experience and found it helful that everything is in one place and immediately obvious on the screen.
As for not having a built in focus motor, this hasn't been an issue at all for me. All modern Nikon lenses are AF-S anyway so focus fine, and there are plenty of affordable lens options. You just need to be aware of the lack of built in motor before buying up old lenses. They'll still fit fine, but you would need manually focus them.
The AF-S 35mm lens is excellent and one of my favourites. It's very good for shooting people shots indoors where I find that 50mm can be a bit too long on a crop sensor. Outdoors, something a bit longer may be helpful, but you'll still get fantastic shots with the 35mm.
Might also be worth looking for deals either side of a D5100. D3100 is the model below in the range, but also a decent camera and likely to be cheaper. The D7000 is the model above and is a superb bit of kit but as it has only just been replaced by the D7100, used prices may still be higher than you want to spend. The older D90, which was replaced by the D7000 is also still a decent camera.
Yep, all very valid and a good flipside to my argument above. On the auto focus issue, I agree about it not being a major factor these days however, with a budget of £300 for a fast prime and body, being able to snap up a £50-£60 50mm 1.8 AF-D lens vs. spending more than twice that on a AF-S 35 or 50mm 1.8 lens does open up the budget a bit for getting a better body. The trade off is that in my experience the AF-S lenses are better lenses full stop. You pays your money...As for not having a built in focus motor, this hasn't been an issue at all for me. All modern Nikon lenses are AF-S anyway so focus fine, and there are plenty of affordable lens options. You just need to be aware of the lack of built in motor before buying up old lenses. They'll still fit fine, but you would need manually focus them.
The AF-S 35mm lens is excellent and one of my favourites. It's very good for shooting people shots indoors where I find that 50mm can be a bit too long on a crop sensor. Outdoors, something a bit longer may be helpful, but you'll still get fantastic shots with the 35mm.
Might also be worth looking for deals either side of a D5100. D3100 is the model below in the range, but also a decent camera and likely to be cheaper. The D7000 is the model above and is a superb bit of kit but as it has only just been replaced by the D7100, used prices may still be higher than you want to spend. The older D90, which was replaced by the D7000 is also still a decent camera.
langy said:
I've been looking at getting a DSLR and for some reason the Canon 600d with twin lense (18-55 & 55-250mm). Managed to find it for between £450 - £475.
Any opinions ?
Decent camera, decent lenses but are you sure you need the telephoto? Unless you are shooting sports or wildlife you are likely better off putting the money in to a fast prime (portraits) or wide-angle (landscapes).Any opinions ?
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