Some basic questions I should already know the answers to...
Discussion
So l have some of what could be considered, simply and basic questions, slightly embarrassing as its not like I'm completely new at this, but I never know exactly the answers on these.!
So I shoot in raw and jpeg, then import into light room, try to make them better, then export as a file to my iMac to then either print or add to Dropbox etc.
The question is, when I do my amendments in Lightroom, is it the raw file that gets adjusted, if so, what's the use of the jpeg that I also save on my memory card?
Then, when I export, I always export as jpeg , so what was the point of the raw?
When exporting to drop box for the quality, what exactly are the settings you use?
Like wise question for printing and needing to send a company a jpeg for best possible quality?
I've got some more stored up, but I thought I'd leave it here for now!
Thanks
So I shoot in raw and jpeg, then import into light room, try to make them better, then export as a file to my iMac to then either print or add to Dropbox etc.
The question is, when I do my amendments in Lightroom, is it the raw file that gets adjusted, if so, what's the use of the jpeg that I also save on my memory card?
Then, when I export, I always export as jpeg , so what was the point of the raw?
When exporting to drop box for the quality, what exactly are the settings you use?
Like wise question for printing and needing to send a company a jpeg for best possible quality?
I've got some more stored up, but I thought I'd leave it here for now!
Thanks
Edited by satans worm on Sunday 18th September 16:59
>The question is, when I do my amendments in Lightroom, is it the raw file that gets adjusted, if so, what's the use of the jpeg that I also save on my memory card?
No, the raw is left alone. Depending on your lightroom settings it stores the modifications in the catalog or a .xmp sidecar file. By default it uses the catalog.
The advantage is that you can always return to the original image if you mess up the editing. It also allows you to create virtual copies so you can edit the same file in different ways. (eg one colour and one black and white)
> Then, when I export, I always export as jpeg , so what was the point of the raw?
The point of the raw is that that you get better quality from editing it rather than editing a jpg. However it is much slower trying to get good results from a raw. (generally) So if the jpg looks ok (ie the camera has guessed correctly how you wanted it processed) then you don't need the raw.
Hence why some people get the camera to store both the raw and jpg. If the jpg looks ok, just use it. No effort involved. If it needs serious editing (eg recovering highlights, shadows etc) then use the raw.
> When exporting to drop box for the quality, what exactly are the settings you use?
Depends on what you want to use the exported file for!
> Like wise question for printing and needing to send a company a jpeg for best possible quality?
The highest quality settings?
I think you might need to be more specific as to what settings you don't understand.
No, the raw is left alone. Depending on your lightroom settings it stores the modifications in the catalog or a .xmp sidecar file. By default it uses the catalog.
The advantage is that you can always return to the original image if you mess up the editing. It also allows you to create virtual copies so you can edit the same file in different ways. (eg one colour and one black and white)
> Then, when I export, I always export as jpeg , so what was the point of the raw?
The point of the raw is that that you get better quality from editing it rather than editing a jpg. However it is much slower trying to get good results from a raw. (generally) So if the jpg looks ok (ie the camera has guessed correctly how you wanted it processed) then you don't need the raw.
Hence why some people get the camera to store both the raw and jpg. If the jpg looks ok, just use it. No effort involved. If it needs serious editing (eg recovering highlights, shadows etc) then use the raw.
> When exporting to drop box for the quality, what exactly are the settings you use?
Depends on what you want to use the exported file for!
> Like wise question for printing and needing to send a company a jpeg for best possible quality?
The highest quality settings?
I think you might need to be more specific as to what settings you don't understand.
btw. to explain the lightroom modification thing a bit better:
What lightroom displays is the raw file with a number of modifications.
Some of those modifications are done automatically (eg the camera calibration settings)
Some are the changes you make when editing it.
It stores these changes in the catalog (or .xmp file) as commands as to how to modify the original raw file, not as an actual modified file.
So, for example, it might store the following commands:
- Set camera calibration profile to Camera neutral
- Set contrast to +20
- set hightlights recovery to -10
etc
Every time it displays the picture it loads the original raw file, then applies the settings that it has saved. So the only time it actually saves a modified picture is when you export it to a jpg or whatever.
The advantage of this system is that there is much less chance of corrupting the original file and you can always "undo" any modifications and start again. Lightroom also allows you to create virtual copies. It does not actually copy the raw file, it just saves two different sets of modifications that link to the same original raw file.
The disadvantage is that it can sometimes be a bit slow to render an image as it has to apply all the modifications every time it does so. Plus, if your catalog file is corrupted then you lose all the settings for all you files, not just one file. Plus, if you move images to a different location outside lightroom it can get very confused as it doesn't know where the original file is to make the modifications to. This can be sorted out but it is why it is normally best to move images within lightroom if you need to.
hth....
What lightroom displays is the raw file with a number of modifications.
Some of those modifications are done automatically (eg the camera calibration settings)
Some are the changes you make when editing it.
It stores these changes in the catalog (or .xmp file) as commands as to how to modify the original raw file, not as an actual modified file.
So, for example, it might store the following commands:
- Set camera calibration profile to Camera neutral
- Set contrast to +20
- set hightlights recovery to -10
etc
Every time it displays the picture it loads the original raw file, then applies the settings that it has saved. So the only time it actually saves a modified picture is when you export it to a jpg or whatever.
The advantage of this system is that there is much less chance of corrupting the original file and you can always "undo" any modifications and start again. Lightroom also allows you to create virtual copies. It does not actually copy the raw file, it just saves two different sets of modifications that link to the same original raw file.
The disadvantage is that it can sometimes be a bit slow to render an image as it has to apply all the modifications every time it does so. Plus, if your catalog file is corrupted then you lose all the settings for all you files, not just one file. Plus, if you move images to a different location outside lightroom it can get very confused as it doesn't know where the original file is to make the modifications to. This can be sorted out but it is why it is normally best to move images within lightroom if you need to.
hth....
The RAW file has greater bit depth so there is more chance of re-covering data cleanly, eg bring up shadows, darken highlights, etc
The JPG file can be viewed in Windows without the need for a RAW converter
Sometimes the JPG conversion in the camera (from RAW) is different to Lightroom's conversion, eg Fuji's ACROS film simulation in the X-T2/X-Pro2 which treats digital noise (eg at high ISO) in a different manner to Lightroom.
The JPG file can be viewed in Windows without the need for a RAW converter
Sometimes the JPG conversion in the camera (from RAW) is different to Lightroom's conversion, eg Fuji's ACROS film simulation in the X-T2/X-Pro2 which treats digital noise (eg at high ISO) in a different manner to Lightroom.
Thanks so much for the explanations
So if I understand it correctly, the raw file is the base that the modifications I do are applied to, but not altering, that raw file.
Which makes sense.
A small question on what someone wrote was if the jpeg needed a lot of work then use the raw, but when I import, I only seem to see 1 picture, not 2 ( i.e. Raw and jpeg) to chose from?
So I assume it always presents the raw for me to import in Lightroom?
Plus, , as the raw is better, why export in jpegs, and not a copy of the raw with the changes applied? ( so the original raw is left in Lightroom untouched, but it spits out a duped raw with the changes as a finished file?)
Sorry for being so dense on this!
Regarding the output, do people export via a file size, or dpi?
And if so what level?
I always just guess but it would be great to actually understand when I'm making the file unnecessarily large, or under detail?
So if I understand it correctly, the raw file is the base that the modifications I do are applied to, but not altering, that raw file.
Which makes sense.
A small question on what someone wrote was if the jpeg needed a lot of work then use the raw, but when I import, I only seem to see 1 picture, not 2 ( i.e. Raw and jpeg) to chose from?
So I assume it always presents the raw for me to import in Lightroom?
Plus, , as the raw is better, why export in jpegs, and not a copy of the raw with the changes applied? ( so the original raw is left in Lightroom untouched, but it spits out a duped raw with the changes as a finished file?)
Sorry for being so dense on this!
Regarding the output, do people export via a file size, or dpi?
And if so what level?
I always just guess but it would be great to actually understand when I'm making the file unnecessarily large, or under detail?
satans worm said:
Plus, , as the raw is better, why export in jpegs, and not a copy of the raw with the changes applied? ( so the original raw is left in Lightroom untouched, but it spits out a duped raw with the changes as a finished file?)
Because RAW is effectively a native format, specific to the camera. e.g. a Canon RAW is not the same as a Nikon RAW. However JPG is a standard file format so it's more useful for uploading / printing / emailing / tweeting / displaying on a smart TV / the list goes on. We do have to tolerate some loss in the compression, though. Raw is unusable in itself for printing or Web.
If you need the best quality for printing then export a tiff file, it will be huge but like raw it's 16 bit and no data is thrown away.
Jpg is the standard for Web, and a lot of print places. For Web you can drop the quality and size, for print keep it at 9 or 10 and the full image size.
I think lightroom knows the Jpg is a copy. It can show both.
Raw let's you make massively more adjustments with far less quality impact, pushing shadows, recovering highlights etc, and things like white balance can be changed.
With Jpg you effectively loose the shadows and highlights, get baked in contrast. Sharpening, colour, and Jpg artefacts and compression.
Modern camera Jpg engines are not too bad but only if you need results without processing.
If you need the best quality for printing then export a tiff file, it will be huge but like raw it's 16 bit and no data is thrown away.
Jpg is the standard for Web, and a lot of print places. For Web you can drop the quality and size, for print keep it at 9 or 10 and the full image size.
I think lightroom knows the Jpg is a copy. It can show both.
Raw let's you make massively more adjustments with far less quality impact, pushing shadows, recovering highlights etc, and things like white balance can be changed.
With Jpg you effectively loose the shadows and highlights, get baked in contrast. Sharpening, colour, and Jpg artefacts and compression.
Modern camera Jpg engines are not too bad but only if you need results without processing.
satans worm said:
Thanks guys for all your time, I finally get it!
I do have a couple more questions but il leave you in peace for a week I think :-)
You should keep asking, the knowledge and willingness to share that knowledge is fantastic here. This thread will help you and many others who read it in the future. I do have a couple more questions but il leave you in peace for a week I think :-)
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