Digital SLR viewfinders
Discussion
Well, had a look at a 350d and a D70 today 
. Really like both of them, but am swaying to the D70 at the moment (just felt a bit more solid and fitted my hands better). I wanted to look at a 300d but no-one has any 
However, I used to have an old Minolta SLR (used to be my dad's) about 5 years ago which had a rather clever viewfinder. The centre of it had a semi-circle that would split any vertile lines if it was out of focus on the subject. Hard to describe, but when it was focued on the subject, the picture was complete with no split.
I was a little suprised that neither of the two digital SLRs had this, or anything similar. You basically have to do it by eye. Is this the case, or did I miss something?
>> Edited by KITT on Saturday 4th June 20:28
. Really like both of them, but am swaying to the D70 at the moment (just felt a bit more solid and fitted my hands better). I wanted to look at a 300d but no-one has any However, I used to have an old Minolta SLR (used to be my dad's) about 5 years ago which had a rather clever viewfinder. The centre of it had a semi-circle that would split any vertile lines if it was out of focus on the subject. Hard to describe, but when it was focued on the subject, the picture was complete with no split.
I was a little suprised that neither of the two digital SLRs had this, or anything similar. You basically have to do it by eye. Is this the case, or did I miss something?
>> Edited by KITT on Saturday 4th June 20:28
Yes I had a cosina manaul focus slr a few years back, and it had the focusing ring in the centre of the veiwfinder, was your old minolta MF?
and of course the nikon and canon are both AF, so most of the time you won't be focusing, also i've found the Nikon D70 and 18-70 kit lens is pretty easy to focus manually if you need to!
TP
and of course the nikon and canon are both AF, so most of the time you won't be focusing, also i've found the Nikon D70 and 18-70 kit lens is pretty easy to focus manually if you need to!
TP
Kitt, think the reason you dont see this feature in digital SLR's is that they are now all auto focus, its either clear, or blured in the viewfinder.
I had that feature on my Pentax which I brought in Hong Kong for 69 quid in 1970, and its still going strong, although I have now upgraded to a Canon digital SLR.
I had that feature on my Pentax which I brought in Hong Kong for 69 quid in 1970, and its still going strong, although I have now upgraded to a Canon digital SLR.
Vipers said:
Kitt, think the reason you dont see this feature in digital SLR's is that they are now all auto focus
I'd go along with that - you don't need such focusing aids because most of the time you'll have it on AF. One thing that struck me instantly about the D70 (but I'm used to it now) is the small viewfinder, which makes it hard to focus manually if you need to. However, there are two lamps at the bottom of the viewfinder which show you under- or over-focus if you really want to do it the hard way.
I use manual focus if I want to pre-focus, but I use AF to find the point, then switch it off.
In short, focusing aids, typically rangefinder + Fresnel screen, are something that's been superseded by electronics
Cheers chaps I guess things have moved on somewhat since my old Minolta (was purchased in the early 80s). I just figured when taking photos of cars on track you'd want to pre-focus, hence anything to help you do so is a good idea. Are the auto-focus systems fast enough to focus on a moving subject?
I guess things have moved on somewhat since my old Minolta (was purchased in the early 80s). I just figured when taking photos of cars on track you'd want to pre-focus, hence anything to help you do so is a good idea. Are the auto-focus systems fast enough to focus on a moving subject?KITT said:
I just figured when taking photos of cars on track you'd want to pre-focus, hence anything to help you do so is a good idea. Are the auto-focus systems fast enough to focus on a moving subject?
AF (autofocus)is not the same as pre-focus, which is a manual technique. However, pre-focus can still be a very good idea in certain situations. The professionals with multi-£K cameras will have AF tracking that's up to motorsport, but at more modest levels, D70 included, I don't think it's going to be fast enough. Depends on the type of motorsport of course: your focal length, how fast the cars are going and whether you're side on or head on. One aspect is how the lens is driven - from my experience, mechanical systems are way too slow; AF-S (silent wave) is much better but even then the rest of the camera has to be up to it. And if they put all the top level toys in sub-£1K cameras, they wouldn't sell the top ones.
Note that there are two kinds of AF - single and continuous. 'Single' focuses onto one point and stays there until you semi-press the release button pointing somewhere else. 'Continuous' means it changes focus as the subject moves- hence 'tracking'.
So try focus tracking (AF-C or continuous servo in Nikon speak) but don't be surprised if it's not up to it. If it's not, go for pre-focusing.
>> Edited by simpo two on Sunday 5th June 09:47
KITT said:
However, I used to have an old Minolta SLR ... ...which had a rather clever viewfinder. The centre of it had a semi-circle... Hard to describe, but when it was focued on the subject, the picture was complete with no split.
"Split Prism" - a lot of cameras used to use that system. I remember a 1960s Pentax I had once. It had a split prism and a ring outside this with (and I don't remember the technical name for this one, although I want to call it a "fresnel pattern"?) what can best be described as lots of triangles which appeared to "magically" reveal the image behind when the image was focused.
KITT said:
I was a little suprised .... You basically have to do it by eye. ...did I miss something?
That's called "progress", I think
Also you used to have more cameras that would accept replacement focussing screens so that you could choose the most appropriate solution for your needs.
However, the D70 does have a focus assist. I use this quite a lot with the AI-P lens that I use, and with close up work. The dot at the left hand end of the viewfinder display (it's a pity it's not also on the top plate) illuminates when either the autofocus has been achieved or when you get manual focus on the sector which is "live".
Also the viewfinder is a lot smarter than the old focussing screens in that you can electronically call up features - such as the most useful grid lines...
(Hope I didn't just repeat what everyone else said.....)
Edited to add - yeah I think "Fresnel" is what I meant. But to re-inforce, the quickest way I have found to PRE-focus is to use AF to focus on something (with an AF lens obviously) and then switch to manual. (It's useful to remember that you've done this and that you are on manual!!
) But generally the D70 (and it's not alone) is poor in supporting focussing (by the type of screen and focus aids it offers) and metering of earlier type lenses. It is one of its more definite drawbacks.
And it's got a cr@ppy eyecup - see my "eye, eye" thread for something a bit better.... >> Edited by beano500 on Sunday 5th June 10:40
In the Nikon, all AF modes have pedictive focus tracking but for the movement, it's only in terms of distance from the camera.
If the camera decides that an object is moving towards/away from the camera, it will start the predictive tracking and lock when (it thinks) the subject has stopped moving.
AF-C also has this predictive tracking but it also focuses continously and does not lock. It can take out of focus images but the AF-S won't allow that.
If the camera decides that an object is moving towards/away from the camera, it will start the predictive tracking and lock when (it thinks) the subject has stopped moving.
AF-C also has this predictive tracking but it also focuses continously and does not lock. It can take out of focus images but the AF-S won't allow that.
Coincidentally a couple of weeks ago I was wondering whether the D70/lens combo I use for motorsportish stuff can keep up, I set the shutter speed nice and high (bright day) set the camera to AF-C and shot off a load of pics with rapidly approaching and disappearing cars . . . trying to focus on the front or rear of the car . . . with a wide aperture (to see what part is in focus) . . .
Conclusion I came to was that in the test I did (110mph speed differential) the camera and lens has no problem keeping up . . . I guess higher speed differentials and different lenses may be different.
D70, v2 firmware, Nikon 80-200 ED AFS 2.8 lens @ 200mm
Fd
Conclusion I came to was that in the test I did (110mph speed differential) the camera and lens has no problem keeping up . . . I guess higher speed differentials and different lenses may be different.
D70, v2 firmware, Nikon 80-200 ED AFS 2.8 lens @ 200mm
Fd
I'd imagine is that because most digital SLRs have been APS-C sized (that's where the 1.6 'factor' comes in) the view in the viewfinder is just too small to make such a thing useful (as the view you see is also shrunk by 1.6 compared to a SLR)
Couple that to the fact that AF can actually tell better than you if it's in focus, and that you get shown the various parts of the image that are in focus (useful for checking DoF) without having to move the camera around to check each one makes the whole thing easier IMHO.
Couple that to it would cost more and you probably have your reason?
J
Couple that to the fact that AF can actually tell better than you if it's in focus, and that you get shown the various parts of the image that are in focus (useful for checking DoF) without having to move the camera around to check each one makes the whole thing easier IMHO.
Couple that to it would cost more and you probably have your reason?
J
If you have a 300D or 20D you can retrofit a prism that gives you the focusing effect.
www.katzeyeoptics.com/
They also have an option to make things brighter, and it seems to help with AF. The only downside is you loose the red "dots" that show what's AF'd.
J
www.katzeyeoptics.com/
They also have an option to make things brighter, and it seems to help with AF. The only downside is you loose the red "dots" that show what's AF'd.
J
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