Capturing moving vehicles.
Discussion
I'm off to be the official "photographer" on a trackday at the end of the month so was out today practising with cars on a local road. I was standing above them on a bridge where the road is on a long upward curve.
Could you offer some advice / critique the following? At the moment I appear to have the panning/capturing sorted, but the best, crispest pictures came from having a very fast shutter speed (understandably as the camera is quite heavy and I'm wobbling) and the other problem I'm having seems to be with focusing - best illustrated by the image 6 (the Corsa Van). Any tips?
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-001.jpg[/pic]
(1/320, f8.5)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-002.jpg[/pic]
(1/320, f8.5)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-003.jpg[/pic]
(1/80, f16)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-004.jpg[/pic]
(1/80, f14)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-005.jpg[/pic]
(1/80, f15)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-006.jpg[/pic]
(1/60, f27)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-007.jpg[/pic]
(1/125, f16)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-008.jpg[/pic]
(1/125, f17)
Apart from removing number plates, these are exactly as they came out of the camera - no PS / PSP trickery involved.
Any ideas? I'm wanting to practice and get this right before going to the track day (plus its fun to play)
Could you offer some advice / critique the following? At the moment I appear to have the panning/capturing sorted, but the best, crispest pictures came from having a very fast shutter speed (understandably as the camera is quite heavy and I'm wobbling) and the other problem I'm having seems to be with focusing - best illustrated by the image 6 (the Corsa Van). Any tips?
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-001.jpg[/pic]
(1/320, f8.5)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-002.jpg[/pic]
(1/320, f8.5)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-003.jpg[/pic]
(1/80, f16)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-004.jpg[/pic]
(1/80, f14)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-005.jpg[/pic]
(1/80, f15)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-006.jpg[/pic]
(1/60, f27)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-007.jpg[/pic]
(1/125, f16)
[pic]http://www.stefancarlton.net/temp/testing-008.jpg[/pic]
(1/125, f17)
Apart from removing number plates, these are exactly as they came out of the camera - no PS / PSP trickery involved.
Any ideas? I'm wanting to practice and get this right before going to the track day (plus its fun to play)
They don't seem too bad - what result do you want to get? One problem might be that the cars are moving towards or away from you at some speed. From my experience even the lower DSLRs do not have very good focus tracking/predictive focus.
If it was me I'd either take the shot as they passed by me, side on, and or pre-focus with AF switched off. That's one less for you and the camera to worry about. You can also select a smaller aperture for greater DOF if the shutter speed allows.
As for shutter speed (obviously) use slow for movement blur, fast to freeze. The right shutter speed will depend on speed of car, amount of blur required and focal length of lens, so you'll have to experiment.
Think of a pan as a golf swing - pick up the car early, track, fire when its in the correct place and follow through. It helps.
>> Edited by simpo two on Thursday 1st September 14:13
If it was me I'd either take the shot as they passed by me, side on, and or pre-focus with AF switched off. That's one less for you and the camera to worry about. You can also select a smaller aperture for greater DOF if the shutter speed allows.
As for shutter speed (obviously) use slow for movement blur, fast to freeze. The right shutter speed will depend on speed of car, amount of blur required and focal length of lens, so you'll have to experiment.
Think of a pan as a golf swing - pick up the car early, track, fire when its in the correct place and follow through. It helps.
>> Edited by simpo two on Thursday 1st September 14:13
simpo two said:
... pick up the car early, track, fire when its in the correct place and follow through ...
Hummmm ... I tried that at Silverstone the other week and got some brilliant shots .....
.... of tarmac, fences, walls, grass .... in fact everything except a car
Really gotta practice that one.
Yours embarassingly,
K
P.S. - I'd be afraid to do practice on a road bridge or overlooking one .... as I'd be afraid of causing a crash .... bloke hiding in a bush with a big camera thingy.
>> Edited by Kinky on Thursday 1st September 14:23
Kinky said:That is a worry for me, but where else can I practice without getting someone else to drive a car about, and then I'm not going to get half as many shots as I want. I just made sure I was out of the way, and had the car parked a distance away so it wasn't obvious I was there. Plus I didn't stay long.
P.S. - I'd be afraid to do practice on a road bridge or overlooking one .... as I'd be afraid of causing a crash .... bloke hiding in a bush with a big camera thingy.
The guy in Mondeo actually did a huge loop (the bridge I was on is about 2miles down a single track road) to come and see what I was doing. Maybe that was more to do with the fact he was going rather quickly
Thanks for the advice Simpo, but I think I need to find another location to play with - that one just isn't any good for what you were suggesting.
Kinky said:
... pick up the car early, track, fire when its in the correct place and follow through ...
Hummmm ... I tried that at Silverstone the other week and got some brilliant shots .....
.... of tarmac, fences, walls, grass .... in fact everything except a car
Yep, you missed the part that says 'track'
You could always start with something slower and work up...?
those pictures have the same problem as mine - the front is in focus & the back isn't. Is that normal/acceptable for pictures?
edit:: I remember when I posted a picture of a TVR which people just turned round and said "all I see is a slightly out of focus car"
>> Edited by docevi1 on Thursday 1st September 15:38
edit:: I remember when I posted a picture of a TVR which people just turned round and said "all I see is a slightly out of focus car"
>> Edited by docevi1 on Thursday 1st September 15:38
docevi1 said:
those pictures have the same problem as mine - the front is in focus & the back isn't. Is that normal/acceptable for pictures?
That's what happens if you're using the panning motion-blur idea and the car is not square on. The only part of the car that will be perfectly sharp is the bit bang in the middle of the viewfinder. Compare both ends of the Model T Ford - sharp, because it's square on. E-Type etc - not so. Smaller aperture might help but I like the effect.
Laws of physics
>> Edited by simpo two on Thursday 1st September 15:43
docevi1 said:
So much to learn
Tackling the impossible comes later
It's not so much to do with the lens as with relative motion and angular velocity. If you were travelling in another car on a parallel course, then you could achieve what you have in mind subject only to DOF. And since speed is proportional to time and because the relative speed between you is then zero, time also becomes zero. That gives you plenty of time to get the shot right...
NB Not all of the above is true
I have a theory about auto focus lenses and the angle of view when taking this sort of shot. All my stuff until a year ago was taken with manual focus 35mm systems. I could get plenty of shots out of focus but not too many sort of in focus unless I could see I could the panning wrong - in which case work out of the location is too difficult and move if it is!)
My theory could be wrong - but here goes.
Manual lenses require that you decide where to focus, set it to be something around there ( I prefer a little short in case the idiot driving comes round off line (
The DOF will deal with them being on line.) and then concentrate on panning and pushing the button at the right point.
Auto focus, especially if in multipoint mode, has much to much to go at when you are looking down on the subject - even slightly. Compromises seem to be set that don't always work. Resticted focus points or spot focus will tend to eliminate that problem BUT can seem (not a scientific approach I grant you) to do strange things with focus around the peripheries.
So, panning relatively horizontal to the ground tends to be more successful than from a high position. I think you will also get more consistent results from the metering system and therefore the aperture settings since the image content is likely to be more consistent. If you pan from a distance to the point you were taking the shots the meter will be constantly adjusting (unless using spot metering or similar) for the changing background.
Now I guess that the more sophisticated cameras have modes that will overcome this sort of problem very comfortably but it would be a matter of experience to know which to set and how to get the best out of it.
So, there's the theory. Tell me what the flaws are.
My theory could be wrong - but here goes.
Manual lenses require that you decide where to focus, set it to be something around there ( I prefer a little short in case the idiot driving comes round off line (
The DOF will deal with them being on line.) and then concentrate on panning and pushing the button at the right point. Auto focus, especially if in multipoint mode, has much to much to go at when you are looking down on the subject - even slightly. Compromises seem to be set that don't always work. Resticted focus points or spot focus will tend to eliminate that problem BUT can seem (not a scientific approach I grant you) to do strange things with focus around the peripheries.
So, panning relatively horizontal to the ground tends to be more successful than from a high position. I think you will also get more consistent results from the metering system and therefore the aperture settings since the image content is likely to be more consistent. If you pan from a distance to the point you were taking the shots the meter will be constantly adjusting (unless using spot metering or similar) for the changing background.
Now I guess that the more sophisticated cameras have modes that will overcome this sort of problem very comfortably but it would be a matter of experience to know which to set and how to get the best out of it.
So, there's the theory. Tell me what the flaws are.
Taking good panning shots just requires practice at different angles, different speeds etc. I tend to stick to about 1/30th of a sec. Main thing is just to try and get a smooth motion.
Id be more concerned with how flat and muddy the images look.. did you shoot these raw then convert them to jpeg? What mode did you shoot them on?
Id be more concerned with how flat and muddy the images look.. did you shoot these raw then convert them to jpeg? What mode did you shoot them on?
Sorry, im struggling to put what I mean into words. Im sure someone else here can give me a hand. By flat and muddy i suppose I mean dull. Maybe you just compressed it too much. Maybe an example will help, if you look at simpo's shots in this thread do you see how much more vivid and alive the shot looks? I dont think its the camera, because the photos from your old camera had the same problem. How much are you compressing them?
Matt
Matt
I think part of the problem with Stefans shots here is that they were shot with the sun in the wrong position as shown by the shadows. For the purposes of practising panning this is no big deal really; I guess the shots are not intended for a portfolio!
What I would say though is that this is probably not the ideal practice for a trackday - you will tend to be on the same level as the vehicles you are shooting and they may very well be moving a lot faster too. A few points:
Don't get too adventurous with slow shutter or you'll end up throwing away more and more. What looks good in the viewfinder need only have a little blurring at full size to make it unuseable; a reasonable rule of thumb is to have the shutter speed match the focal length; ie shoot 1/125 @ 125mm. In fairness though I rarely go faster than 1/160 even at full extension on a 300mm which obviously becomes a 450mm+ on my D100.
Try shooting from some interesting angles too - from very low down and / or elevated if possible.
Try and figure out where the sun is going to be throughout the day then choose your shoot location accordingly.
Never stand on the exit of a corner
What I would say though is that this is probably not the ideal practice for a trackday - you will tend to be on the same level as the vehicles you are shooting and they may very well be moving a lot faster too. A few points:
Don't get too adventurous with slow shutter or you'll end up throwing away more and more. What looks good in the viewfinder need only have a little blurring at full size to make it unuseable; a reasonable rule of thumb is to have the shutter speed match the focal length; ie shoot 1/125 @ 125mm. In fairness though I rarely go faster than 1/160 even at full extension on a 300mm which obviously becomes a 450mm+ on my D100.
Try shooting from some interesting angles too - from very low down and / or elevated if possible.
Try and figure out where the sun is going to be throughout the day then choose your shoot location accordingly.
Never stand on the exit of a corner
You are using GetCarter's D1X yes?
If it's anything like a D70 then the images straight out of the camera have a tendancy towards being dull and lifeless as Matt says. For an easy fix, a quick tweak of the contrast will have an immediate effect
You can however go mad with levels, curves, contrast, sharpening to get your images to have more impact. I'm loving my Photoshop Velvia action script which simulates vevlia film, and really brings out the colours in images.
If it's anything like a D70 then the images straight out of the camera have a tendancy towards being dull and lifeless as Matt says. For an easy fix, a quick tweak of the contrast will have an immediate effect
You can however go mad with levels, curves, contrast, sharpening to get your images to have more impact. I'm loving my Photoshop Velvia action script which simulates vevlia film, and really brings out the colours in images.
Remember that the "depth of field" (i.e. where it's in focus) extends further behind the focus point than in front.
To that end, if the car's are predictable, I generally fix the focus point of the camera to be "lower middle" of the seven available. This generally means that the camera focuses on the tarmac just infront of the car, and you get a whole car in focus.
The other thing I sometimes do is turn off autofocus. Focus once using AF on where the car will be, but again, focus on the track just in front of where you will end up with your panning shot, and then turn it back to MF. Of course the downside of this is that if something exciting happens elsewhere you have to turn it back onto AF to capture it.
The first technique gave this
the second this
To that end, if the car's are predictable, I generally fix the focus point of the camera to be "lower middle" of the seven available. This generally means that the camera focuses on the tarmac just infront of the car, and you get a whole car in focus.
The other thing I sometimes do is turn off autofocus. Focus once using AF on where the car will be, but again, focus on the track just in front of where you will end up with your panning shot, and then turn it back to MF. Of course the downside of this is that if something exciting happens elsewhere you have to turn it back onto AF to capture it.
The first technique gave this
the second this
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