Should I upgrade? D70 --> 20D?

[Mad Dave]

Hi Guys,

I've been a Nikon D70 user for just over a year now and i've been incredibly happy and impressed with the camera. I have the 18-70mm kit lens plus SB800 Speedlight and a Sigma 70-300mm lens for it.

Thing is, I was chatting to a chap I know last night and he owns a 20D, but is considering upgrading to a 5D. The shop offered him £550 trade-in for the 20D body, plus £200 for the 17-??mm lens. I said that if he decides to go for it, I may well be interested in buying his 20D + lens for the trade-in price. He was happy with this idea.

So, is the camera significantly better than my D70? Presumably i'll have to replace my SB800 with a Canon specific one, and buy a new 'big' lens.

My question to you guys, then, is this - should I go for it if the opportunity arises?

[406tm]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Don't go to the Dark Sdie. Nikon cameras are far nicer than Canon cameras. IMHO of course.

[simpo two]

Mad Dave said:

So, is the camera significantly better than my D70?

No, I wouldn't say that it is. What do you want to do that the D70 doesn't but the 20D does?

Plus, you'll have to learn a different control layout and as you say, buy new lenses and flash. The logical upgrade is the new Nikon D200, which should be available in about Feb next year.

So you'd really only be moving sideways, and getting a lot of inconvenience and extra expense as well.

[cirks]

simpo two said:

What do you want to do that the D70 doesn't but the 20D does? Plus, you'll have to learn a different control layout and as you say, buy new lenses and flash. The logical upgrade is the new Nikon D200, which should be available in about Feb next year.

Despite owning a 20D I'd have to agree with Simpo - the 20D probably wouldn't give you a great deal more than your current D70 (except the iso and 2MB extra etc). BUT, if you were keen to change, the D200 is an awful lot more than the £550 second-hand 20D! ie. the 'logical upgrade' would cost you £1200 (but at least you could keep your existing lenses and (if compatible) flash.

>> Edited by cirks on Friday 16th December 13:05

[Andy M]

Mad Dave said:

The shop offered him £550 trade-in for the 20D body, plus £200 for the 17-??mm lens

If the lens is the 17-40mm then £200 is an absolute screamer of a price, and probably worth going for the deal alone.

My honest opinion is that the 20D is a jump up from the D70 (which I compare to the 350D), but maybe not enough to justify the extra expense of having to sell all your gear, and having to buy a new tele-lens etc.

Why not ask if you can borrow the 20D for a weekend before you decide?

I've seen some damn fine pictures come out of the D70, but when I was choosing it was the 20D every time for me

[_dobbo_]

The d200 isn't that much more than the £550 to upgrade - factor in how much you can get for your D70 body second hand - they are reliably fetching 350-400 on ebay.

[poah]

I'd be more inclinded to get the D200

[DustyC]

Well if you dont want it then I'd be interested!
Can you find out what the lens is.

Feel free to email me via PH.
(I live less than an hour from you).

[cirks]

_dobbo_ said:

The d200 isn't that much more than the £550 to upgrade - factor in how much you can get for your D70 body second hand - they are reliably fetching 350-400 on ebay.

Er unless my maths have gone particuarly poor; if he can get £350 for the D70 then the D200 net will be around £750 upgrade. If he sells the D70 + lenses then the upgrade price for the 20D is £550 body+£200lens - (£350 body+say £200 lenses) =£200.
Therefore D200 upgrade is £550 more than upgrade to 20D.

[simpo two]

Andy M said:

My honest opinion is that the 20D is a jump up from the D70 (which I compare to the 350D)

The Nikon equivalent is the D50. I saw a 350D body in Comet and apart from it having a hole instead of a lens, it didn't seem much different in size or weight to a prosumer compact.

_dobbo_ said:

The d200 isn't that much more than the £550 to upgrade - factor in how much you can get for your D70 body second hand - they are reliably fetching 350-400 on ebay.

I was hoping for £500+

[_dobbo_]

cirks said:

_dobbo_ said: The d200 isn't that much more than the £550 to upgrade - factor in how much you can get for your D70 body second hand - they are reliably fetching 350-400 on ebay. Er unless my maths have gone particuarly poor; if he can get £350 for the D70 then the D200 net will be around £750 upgrade. If he sells the D70 + lenses then the upgrade price for the 20D is £550 body+£200lens - (£350 body+say £200 lenses) =£200. Therefore D200 upgrade is £550 more than upgrade to 20D.

You forgot the flash cirks - another £250 minimum...

[Graham.J]

simpo two said:

The logical upgrade is the new Nikon D200, which should be available in about Feb next year.

I thought it was out later this month?

[_dobbo_]

I think it's out now - or in the next couple of days. You will be lucky to get one though as from what I can make out there are more pre-orders than stock.

It's like the x-box 360 all over again!

[Andy M]

simpo two said:

Andy M said: My honest opinion is that the 20D is a jump up from the D70 (which I compare to the 350D) The Nikon equivalent is the D50. I saw a 350D body in Comet and apart from it having a hole instead of a lens, it didn't seem much different in size or weight to a prosumer compact.

I'd seen it as, from the top of the tree:

Canon 1ds mkII
Nikon D2x
Canon 1d mkII N
Nikon D2Hs

Canon 5D
Nikon D200

Canon 20D
Nikon D70s
Nikon D70 & Canon 350D

Nikon D50 & Canon 300D


I shall prepare for the

[cirks]

Andy M said:

I shall prepare for the

Andy, surely you meant the list to be, from the top:

Canon 20D
Canon 20D
Canon 20D
Canon 20D
etc
..nothing else matters...

>> Edited by cirks on Friday 16th December 16:21

[beano500]

cirks said:

..nothing else matters...

Well I think I'd still like a Phase One P45, before all this "mediocre" stuff we're discussing here!!!!

[simpo two]

Graham.J said:

simpo two said: The logical upgrade is the new Nikon D200, which should be available in about Feb next year. I thought it was out later this month?

'Released' on 15 December, but if the D70 was anything to go by, which it is, there won't be free stock for 2-3 months as what does come in from Nikon is allocated to people on waiting lists.

Andy M said:

I'd seen it as, from the top of the tree: . . . Nikon D50 & Canon 300D I shall prepare for the

The only comment I'd make is that the 300D is defunct whilst the D50 is new; hence its position opposite the 350D as their maker's entry level cameras. Differences between the D70 and D70s are technically effectively nil; the latter has a bigger screen and tweaked software but that's about it I think. The D50, being more modern than the D70, is actually better in some respects; indeed, from the seminars at Nikon Expo, it seems that they robbed the D50 and D2X to make the D200!

As the D50 and D70/s are very close together, maybe they should have made a D80 or D90 to fill the rather big gap up to the D200. We shall see!

But to return to the thread - is there anything that you want to do with the D70 that you can't, that the 20D can? Or is it just the passing opportunity that's got you thinking?

>> Edited by simpo two on Friday 16th December 17:46

[Mad Dave]

Thanks for all the advice guys. It's just really the passing opportunity really, that and all the huge praise the 20D got on here upon it's release. I've never found a limitation with the D70 BUT I'd hate to take a world-class photo (quite by accident I should think!) and not be able to do anything with it due to the D70's 6.4mp sensor, whereas the 20D's 8mp should allow it to be blown up a bit larger, if that makes sense.

I think I just fancy the idea of a slightly shinier toy

[simpo two]

Mad Dave said:

I'd hate to take a world-class photo (quite by accident I should think!) and not be able to do anything with it due to the D70's 6.4mp sensor, whereas the 20D's 8mp should allow it to be blown up a bit larger, if that makes sense.

Ken Rockwell has a reputation as being pro-Nikon, but you can't argue with the maths:

From: www.kenrockwell.com/tech/20dd70.htm

Ken said:

6MP and 8MP look the same because they are only 15% different in linear resolution (DPI) when printed, which is invisible in real photos. It would take something around 24MP to look significantly improved from 6MP. I have a whole page devoted to the megapixel myth here. The D70 makes images 3,008 pixels wide and the 20D makes them 3,504 pixels wide, big deal. No one can see the tiny difference. It takes a doubling of linear resolution, or a quadrupling of the total pixels (MP), to make a significant difference, and only then if you're printing above 11 x 14."

If it helps, the D200 has 10Mp, but I'd happily swap 4 of them for 2 stops dynamic range because in my book that's more important.

Mad Dave said:

I think I just fancy the idea of a slightly shinier toy

But I'd save your pennies and make a more significant leap later.

[V6GTO]

If you cut me in half I'd have "Canon" written around the edges, I have a 1D2N and a 20D, (£550...see PH classifieds) but the move you talk about doesn't make financial sense. If you sold/swapped your Nikon gear for the equivalent Canon gear with a 20D, without laying out any extra cash, now that would be a good move.

Martin.