Copyright, fees etc
Discussion
Just wondered what the general opinion is on this:
I got talking to some bird who works in a coffee shop who said shes a photographer in her spare time and wants to pursue it, in particular lighting. I mention that we sell lights and maybe she'd like to take some pics. Sure she says (can anyone guess where this is going?)
Anyway, she's emailed me some pictures (they look ok, nothing special or finished but ok) and I also do a lighting installation in my home so pick her up so she can photograph them too.
So far so good. She then asked about sending an invoice for her work to which i reply, yeah email it blah blah
Right, she's come up with 3 X half day sessions @ 150 each (450)
assistant fees (100), editing £100 and copyright fees of £450! GRAND TOTAL £1100
for taking 2 pictures that I could have done myself (hindsight eh!) and some others that I've not even seen yet.
First question is: Is she mad?
Second question is: Am i mad?
Third question is: If I pay someone to take a pic of my subject then why would I then pay for the copyright on the image? She says all photographers do that!
It would possibly stomachable if there were some images I could actually use. The ones at my house I actually edited myself and will possibly retake anyway as the colour is off.
It's actually causing me quite a headache especially as she's already quoted 'legal route!'
Don't know if I should laugh or cry. Oh, I also got her a chinese on the way home!
I got talking to some bird who works in a coffee shop who said shes a photographer in her spare time and wants to pursue it, in particular lighting. I mention that we sell lights and maybe she'd like to take some pics. Sure she says (can anyone guess where this is going?)
Anyway, she's emailed me some pictures (they look ok, nothing special or finished but ok) and I also do a lighting installation in my home so pick her up so she can photograph them too.
So far so good. She then asked about sending an invoice for her work to which i reply, yeah email it blah blah
Right, she's come up with 3 X half day sessions @ 150 each (450)
assistant fees (100), editing £100 and copyright fees of £450! GRAND TOTAL £1100
for taking 2 pictures that I could have done myself (hindsight eh!) and some others that I've not even seen yet.
First question is: Is she mad?
Second question is: Am i mad?
Third question is: If I pay someone to take a pic of my subject then why would I then pay for the copyright on the image? She says all photographers do that!
It would possibly stomachable if there were some images I could actually use. The ones at my house I actually edited myself and will possibly retake anyway as the colour is off.
It's actually causing me quite a headache especially as she's already quoted 'legal route!'
Don't know if I should laugh or cry. Oh, I also got her a chinese on the way home!
Upload some of the shots so a few of us can say if they are worth the cost. Basically I don't think she is a pro if she is working in a coffee shop (my idea of a pro is that you earn your income from the particular trade).
The way I work is £300 half a day, £600 full day. image editing other than colour correction at £75 per hour (pro rata day rate). As soon as the client pays the invoice they can you the image how they want, If its right or wrong I dont charge for usage (charging extra for however its used, i.e cheaper for 5,000 leaflets than for a national bill board campaign), however a lot of photographers will.
From what you are saying for 3 half days she produced 2 shots? what happened on the other half day, nothing?
The way I work is £300 half a day, £600 full day. image editing other than colour correction at £75 per hour (pro rata day rate). As soon as the client pays the invoice they can you the image how they want, If its right or wrong I dont charge for usage (charging extra for however its used, i.e cheaper for 5,000 leaflets than for a national bill board campaign), however a lot of photographers will.
From what you are saying for 3 half days she produced 2 shots? what happened on the other half day, nothing?
it's a licence fee as the copyright belongs to her.
she can charge what she likes. the only option open to you is to reject the work as unfit for use.
like the others have said it should have been clearly set out at before you began.
when commissioned the licence fee should be included in the cost of the original commission - extra uses should be negotiated to mutual agreement.
she can charge what she likes. the only option open to you is to reject the work as unfit for use.
like the others have said it should have been clearly set out at before you began.
when commissioned the licence fee should be included in the cost of the original commission - extra uses should be negotiated to mutual agreement.
You might do better in the business section regarding the legal aspect but it seems to me that what it comes down to is she wants to charge you £1100 for photos you can't and wont use.
All you ever had was a verbal contract, and since she hasn't delivered the agreed result then simply don't pay her, but make sure you don't use the images.
If she wants to pursue you for the money through the court, worst case is you have to pay up but since she is an amateur who didn't produce usable stuff I'd guess she doesn't have a leg to stand on?
But then what do I know!
All you ever had was a verbal contract, and since she hasn't delivered the agreed result then simply don't pay her, but make sure you don't use the images.
If she wants to pursue you for the money through the court, worst case is you have to pay up but since she is an amateur who didn't produce usable stuff I'd guess she doesn't have a leg to stand on?
But then what do I know!
She's trying it on, it's your shoot of your product but the problem is you didn't clarify details beforehand - any photographer worth their salt will define copyrigth issue's etc before a shoot.not sure how this will sit with other people, but you could always question her business legalities, if she is charging you that ammount then does she declare any of it to the tax office, VAT man or her current bosses at the cafe?
As for the sale of copyright, that is such a grey area, if you have commisioned her to do the shoot for you to use, then in my mind that will cover the licence fee for you to use the photos in that context, with her retaining copyright, unless transfer of copyright is agreed beforehand, the photographer will retain it.
If you end up paying her the full ammount, including the copyright fee, then i suggest you keep an eagle eye on her in the future, and if you see her use your photos sue her for breach of copyright, as you will have bought it off her, £1100 seems appropriate.
A solicitor might be a little more help here thouh.
As for the sale of copyright, that is such a grey area, if you have commisioned her to do the shoot for you to use, then in my mind that will cover the licence fee for you to use the photos in that context, with her retaining copyright, unless transfer of copyright is agreed beforehand, the photographer will retain it.
If you end up paying her the full ammount, including the copyright fee, then i suggest you keep an eagle eye on her in the future, and if you see her use your photos sue her for breach of copyright, as you will have bought it off her, £1100 seems appropriate.
A solicitor might be a little more help here thouh.
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