30D vs D80, the legend continues
Discussion
Hi all 
(my first post! long time reader...)
Looking at getting a new DSLR It'll be for wildlife, motorsport, etc..
Like many others, im looking at the Nikon D80 (probably with the 18-135, or 18-200) and the Canon 30D (probably with the kit + 70-200 f4 L).
I was all ready to go with the 30D, but then i actually had a look at them in a shop. The D80 seemed equally as solid, and maybe a bit more 'resolved'. Lots of customisable features, nifty shortcuts, etc..
So i did the normal trawl through the review sites, mainly positive for both cameras, but i hit a small (or maybe large ?) possible issue with the D80. In the D80 users guide on kenrockwell.com ( www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d80/users-guide/controls.htm - "+/- and Green Dot Button" section ) he mentions an issue with the metering firmware on the D80. It struggles to reliably meter some scenes, requiring to constantly shuffle the exposure compensation around to get a decent result ?
Does anyone know of this problem ?
If so, is it really an issue ? Is is fixed in a later firmware ?
Any comments on either camera appreciated
flat.
(my first post! long time reader...) Looking at getting a new DSLR
It'll be for wildlife, motorsport, etc.. Like many others, im looking at the Nikon D80 (probably with the 18-135, or 18-200) and the Canon 30D (probably with the kit + 70-200 f4 L).
I was all ready to go with the 30D, but then i actually had a look at them in a shop. The D80 seemed equally as solid, and maybe a bit more 'resolved'. Lots of customisable features, nifty shortcuts, etc..
So i did the normal trawl through the review sites, mainly positive for both cameras, but i hit a small (or maybe large ?) possible issue with the D80. In the D80 users guide on kenrockwell.com ( www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d80/users-guide/controls.htm - "+/- and Green Dot Button" section ) he mentions an issue with the metering firmware on the D80. It struggles to reliably meter some scenes, requiring to constantly shuffle the exposure compensation around to get a decent result ?
Does anyone know of this problem ?
If so, is it really an issue ? Is is fixed in a later firmware ?
Any comments on either camera appreciated
flat.
Edited by flat-planedCrank on Thursday 17th May 02:50
/flamesuit on.
Theres a reason sports shooters choose Canon. They meter better, shoot faster & typicaly produce better results than nikons (in the price range). There usualy less ergonomic & consumer ones built cheaper & offer less features.
Out of all that stuff you listed the standout is the 70-200f4L, its a stunner the 18-200VR cant stand up against. The f2.8 version is probably more suited to motorsports & wildlife usualy could often with a little more reach
Theres a reason sports shooters choose Canon. They meter better, shoot faster & typicaly produce better results than nikons (in the price range). There usualy less ergonomic & consumer ones built cheaper & offer less features.
Out of all that stuff you listed the standout is the 70-200f4L, its a stunner the 18-200VR cant stand up against. The f2.8 version is probably more suited to motorsports & wildlife usualy could often with a little more reach
I bought a D80 a month ago and have just got back from a week long holiday in Mauritius with it. I did find the camera was exposing a little too much for the shadows for my liking in matrix metering and blowing highlights as a result. However I ended up switching to manual and spot metering. Bear in the mind the sort of scenes I'm talking about are scenes with dark foreground details and very bright skies. Feel free to take a look at my photos and judge for yourself:
http://nomohat.zenfolio.com/p24491638
(all but 2 photos in this gallery are from my D80)
I still love the camera despite the metering though. I swapped a Sony A100 for it and no way I'd go back. The handling is excellent - a year ago I had never even picked up an SLR and with the D80 I was comfortable shooting manually after a couple of days. The viewfinder is a revelation after the Sony one. I wear glasses and with the Sony I'd always have to keep shifting angles to see everything but the Nikon is bright and clear even with glasses.
http://nomohat.zenfolio.com/p24491638
(all but 2 photos in this gallery are from my D80)
I still love the camera despite the metering though. I swapped a Sony A100 for it and no way I'd go back. The handling is excellent - a year ago I had never even picked up an SLR and with the D80 I was comfortable shooting manually after a couple of days. The viewfinder is a revelation after the Sony one. I wear glasses and with the Sony I'd always have to keep shifting angles to see everything but the Nikon is bright and clear even with glasses.
Bit worried about commenting on here after the mauling I got last time but here goes anyway. My D80 goes down to ISO 100 and I would be surprised if the ccd in the D80 and D200 are different as they are the same resolution. 2 sensors the same but different doesn't sound like good business practice.
V6GTO said:
There are also noise issues with the D80...it only goes down to ISO 200 and is generally "noisier" than the 30D, which I'd have was more in the D200 league.
Martin.
Martin.
Thats funny because mine goes down to ISO 100. I'm not going to argue the noise issue though, 30d is less noisy though the D80 isn't bad.
Your right about the 30d being a league above the D80 though, it really should be compared to the D200.
Edited by omohat on Thursday 17th May 09:33
sdws said:
Bit worried about commenting on here after the mauling I got last time but here goes anyway. My D80 goes down to ISO 100 and I would be surprised if the ccd in the D80 and D200 are different as they are the same resolution. 2 sensors the same but different doesn't sound like good business practice.
D200 and D80 use the same basic sensor but with differences in the processing. I think the D200 has more channels to cope with the faster frame rate (5 vs 3) but the D80 doesn't suffer from some of the banding and high ISO noise issues because the processing has been refined since the D200 was launched.
I'd take everything Ken Rockwell says with a pinch of salt! THe 18-200 is an okay consumer lens made cheaply to a price that has fancy electronics and happens to perform better than most superzooms. That said it's no match for the semi-pro lenses (with a smaller range). If you go the Nikon route a Nikon 80-200 F2.8 can be had second hand for ca. £250 (what I paid for mine). It's stupidly sharp and easily a match for the canon L F4 lens. New it can be had for about £450 off ebay. Also has the advantage that at F2.8 you can use it with a TC at a pinch.
I've only used a 300D (9000 shots) and 20d (about 100!) but am quite happy staying with Nikon over canon at the mo. In the real world you can argue over minor details but you're talking very minor differences in the scheme of things. THe main things are - does it handle right, can you use it like it's another part of your body, and can you get the lenses you want for it at a price you can afford. Ignore the minor differences in speed, noise, resolution etc unless you really feel you can use 100% of the capability of the camera.
If you have a look in here there's a comparision of noise on the D80 for the same shot at 100 and 1600 ISO. In the real world I don't see it as too much of an intrusion. If you're really worried about noise go for a Fuji S5 and get the best of both worlds.
I've only used a 300D (9000 shots) and 20d (about 100!) but am quite happy staying with Nikon over canon at the mo. In the real world you can argue over minor details but you're talking very minor differences in the scheme of things. THe main things are - does it handle right, can you use it like it's another part of your body, and can you get the lenses you want for it at a price you can afford. Ignore the minor differences in speed, noise, resolution etc unless you really feel you can use 100% of the capability of the camera.
If you have a look in here there's a comparision of noise on the D80 for the same shot at 100 and 1600 ISO. In the real world I don't see it as too much of an intrusion. If you're really worried about noise go for a Fuji S5 and get the best of both worlds.
V6GTO said:
There are also noise issues with the D80...it only goes down to ISO 200 and is generally "noisier" than the 30D, which I'd have was more in the D200 league.
Martin.
Martin.
D80 actually has less noise than the 30D but thats due to the lovely nikon noise reduction so you end up with less detailed pics lol
I hate getting into discussions like this but... Unless you are talking about JPEGs straight out of the camera then the D80 doesn't have better noise performance than the D200.
I love my D200, but (and it's a big but) if I could go back to day one, I'd go with Canon, and I'd now be one of the people waiting to get my hands on a 1DsIII
I love my D200, but (and it's a big but) if I could go back to day one, I'd go with Canon, and I'd now be one of the people waiting to get my hands on a 1DsIII
Thanks for all the replies
Certainly gives me more to think about.
The 40D ? I had heard it was due out soon. However i did read that it was 'due out soon' at the end of last year as well
If it was to appear in the next couple months (some people are saying July - September ?) then i'd certainly take a look.
One feature that i noticed for the Nikon that Canon seems not to match is the idea of auto-ISO ? If your shutter is set but the camera cant open the aperture wide enough, then it'll bump the ISO (within certain constraints). Am i right in thinking this is a Nikon-only feature ?
Thanks.
Certainly gives me more to think about.
The 40D ? I had heard it was due out soon. However i did read that it was 'due out soon' at the end of last year as well
If it was to appear in the next couple months (some people are saying July - September ?) then i'd certainly take a look. One feature that i noticed for the Nikon that Canon seems not to match is the idea of auto-ISO ? If your shutter is set but the camera cant open the aperture wide enough, then it'll bump the ISO (within certain constraints). Am i right in thinking this is a Nikon-only feature ?
Thanks.
Frankly I think you are getting in too dep here. As you look in the viewfinder you'll know if the metering is OK from the info supplied. It isn't hard to change the ISO level anyway!
Don't even try and get me into the Nikon/Canon argument either. When I went digital a few years back after 25 years of Nikon ownership I did it with an open mind and tried both makes. Simply, it was down to, as mentioned above, the ergonomics; the Nikon felt right in my hand and IMHO if you feel at home with the camera you'll take better pictures with it. Both makes are good and mostly it is the idiot behind the shutter that takes bad pictures.
Don't even try and get me into the Nikon/Canon argument either. When I went digital a few years back after 25 years of Nikon ownership I did it with an open mind and tried both makes. Simply, it was down to, as mentioned above, the ergonomics; the Nikon felt right in my hand and IMHO if you feel at home with the camera you'll take better pictures with it. Both makes are good and mostly it is the idiot behind the shutter that takes bad pictures.
lowdrag said:
Frankly I think you are getting in too dep here. As you look in the viewfinder you'll know if the metering is OK from the info supplied. It isn't hard to change the ISO level anyway!
Don't even try and get me into the Nikon/Canon argument either. When I went digital a few years back after 25 years of Nikon ownership I did it with an open mind and tried both makes. Simply, it was down to, as mentioned above, the ergonomics; the Nikon felt right in my hand and IMHO if you feel at home with the camera you'll take better pictures with it. Both makes are good and mostly it is the idiot behind the shutter that takes bad pictures.
Don't even try and get me into the Nikon/Canon argument either. When I went digital a few years back after 25 years of Nikon ownership I did it with an open mind and tried both makes. Simply, it was down to, as mentioned above, the ergonomics; the Nikon felt right in my hand and IMHO if you feel at home with the camera you'll take better pictures with it. Both makes are good and mostly it is the idiot behind the shutter that takes bad pictures.
I may well be over-analysing these features. I suppose its me trying to asses might what become an annoyance over time, but not really having any frame of reference
I certainly take the point that I should go with whatever seems most user friendly for me. Suppose it means going to have an extended test at a local shop
From reading more forums / websites about the D80, I keep wondering if the (relativly small
) £130 addition to the price of the 30D makes more sense in the long run? Would have, what is perceived to be, more reliable metering and a bunch of extra features? Once again, thanks for the comments.
VxDuncan said:
As has been said before, the actual camera is a very small part of the story. Think about the lenses you want (or are going to want) then choose Canon or Nikon that fits best. THe differences between bodies are very, very small compared to the choice of lenses/lens performance.
Would you say there is as much 'room for expansion' in the Nikon range as there seems to be in the Canon ? The "L's" seem to be treated with a sort of hushed-reverence on some review sites / forums
At least as far as the Canon range is concerned, i'd guess i'd like a reasonable zoom for motorsport. The 70-200 f4 L seems to be a decent performer for the money (though i realise that the f2.8 / IS versions would be a superior choice). The 70-300 IS also looks to be a decent lens, though in the examples i've seen the colours / contrast don't seem to be as vivid as the 70-200.
The 50mm f1.8 prime looks like a must-buy for the Canons as well, certainly seems to punch outside its price bracket
...and not forgetting the much complained about 18-55 kit lens. Are there 'types' of lenses that the companies seem to be especially good at ? Does Canon do a good midrange zoom, but perhaps not have as strong a wide angle ? Might help to push me in the right direction
Cheers.
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