Straight fight - Canon or Nikon?
Discussion
I've had a brief scan of recent topics and I gather yer beginners DSLR is either Nikon D40X or Canon EOS 350D.
So which is it?
So which is it?
I'm hoping this is not akin to asking Griff or Chim in the TVR forum - apologies if it is. I've always been a happy-snapper but I am constantly embarrassed by the quality of some of the photographs taken at PH and TVRCC events so I reckon it's about time I bought the right (beginners) kit and tried to learn how to take a proper polaroid.
I wouldn't be too quick too write off Olympus, Pentax, perhaps Sigma, but also Sony (after all they make some of the sensors found in others....)
But it depends what you want, what you will be photograpghing, which lenses (after all if you don't need a variety of lenses a dSLR is wasting some of your money!) and how you find they handle. Go down your local Messups or similar and get your mits round a few. Then read up on the ones that interest you most on dpreview.
Oh - and if I had to have a Canon or a Nikon? Well I'd have Nikon because I have a shed load of glass. Otherwise I'd be still with Canon which I had from the 70s to the 90s....
I wouldn't really care which one, although I am far more familiar with the Nikon set up and handling - the ergonomics are better!
But it depends what you want, what you will be photograpghing, which lenses (after all if you don't need a variety of lenses a dSLR is wasting some of your money!) and how you find they handle. Go down your local Messups or similar and get your mits round a few. Then read up on the ones that interest you most on dpreview.
Oh - and if I had to have a Canon or a Nikon? Well I'd have Nikon because I have a shed load of glass. Otherwise I'd be still with Canon which I had from the 70s to the 90s....
I wouldn't really care which one, although I am far more familiar with the Nikon set up and handling - the ergonomics are better!miniman said:
The D40X doesn't have an AF motor built in so you will be limited to AF-S (I think) lenses. The 350D does.
This may as well be Spanish to me 
- I've just wiki'd it to here and it suggests that AF is auto focus and AF-S is the same but silent - is there more to it than that or is this another of those wiki-errors?beano500 said:
... But it depends what you want, what you will be photograpghing, which lenses (after all if you don't need a variety of lenses a dSLR is wasting some of your money!) and how you find they handle. ...
That's (most) of my problem really - I dunno. It's likely to be largely cars, including some 'action' shots as I live only a couple of miles from Castle Combe circuit. But I'd like the ability/capacity to take landscapes, portraits, holiday snaps, etc., so a jobbing all-rounder really.LordGrover said:
This may as well be Spanish to me - I've just wiki'd it to here and it suggests that AF is auto focus and AF-S is the same but silent - is there more to it than that or is this another of those wiki-errors?
Yeah, there's more to it than that. Some Nikon lenses have an autofocus motor as part of the lenses, and some don't, as I understand it. The ones that don't will only work on a body that has an autofocus motor. The D40X doesn't have one, so you are limited to lenses that do have the motor, which limits your choice of lens. Quite possibly not a big issue, though. - I've just wiki'd it to here and it suggests that AF is auto focus and AF-S is the same but silent - is there more to it than that or is this another of those wiki-errors?As mentioned above, it seems the Canon lenses all have the motor in them, so any Canon (or relevant Sigma or Tamron or whatever) lens will work with the 350D body. I have a 350D and am very happy with it. I think they also have less noise at high ISO speeds than the cheaper Nikon stuff but someone might be along to correct me on that!
ETA - looking at that wiki article, all AF lenses rely on the motor being in the body, so won't work with the D40X. I think...
Edited by miniman on Thursday 20th September 18:55
Ok - my penny's worth (and yes it is like asking Chim or Griff 
The answer is Cerbera 
)
If you're starting from scratch there's not a huge range of difference between makes. Either way you'll end up spending a fortune on lenses.
I went Canon because a collegue at work had one and I was able to borrow/try/swap/lend lenses before I bought.
From the Canon point of view, the 400D is an excellant camera to start with, however I found it small, so I've upgraded to the 40D. It really depends on which feels better to you, your budget, what you are going to do with it.
Same goes with Nikon. I know people who've started with Nikon just because they liked the feel of the camera.
At the end of the day, the equipment helps, but it's the photographer that makes the real difference (or so I tell people).
The answer is Cerbera )If you're starting from scratch there's not a huge range of difference between makes. Either way you'll end up spending a fortune on lenses.
I went Canon because a collegue at work had one and I was able to borrow/try/swap/lend lenses before I bought.
From the Canon point of view, the 400D is an excellant camera to start with, however I found it small, so I've upgraded to the 40D. It really depends on which feels better to you, your budget, what you are going to do with it.
Same goes with Nikon. I know people who've started with Nikon just because they liked the feel of the camera.
At the end of the day, the equipment helps, but it's the photographer that makes the real difference (or so I tell people).
miniman said:
... will only work on a body that has an autofocus motor...
Hmm?! 
I think you'll find they will "work" but you won't have autofocus capability - two different things. They should certainly fit the body (which was what the old Canon lenses wouldn't do when Canon went to a different fitting for autofocus in the late 80s/early 90s.....)Between the 2 the 350d is the better deal.
D40(x) is cheaper but limited, missing a lot of stuff your likely to find you want one day (DoF Preview, mirror lockup, bracketing, fast shooting, in body motor, portrait grip etc etc).
The cheap nikons give good pictures but its not about that (they all do that sir). What you save on the body you spend more on on the lenses.
350d (and the 400d) is way superior in function.
D40(x) is cheaper but limited, missing a lot of stuff your likely to find you want one day (DoF Preview, mirror lockup, bracketing, fast shooting, in body motor, portrait grip etc etc).
The cheap nikons give good pictures but its not about that (they all do that sir). What you save on the body you spend more on on the lenses.
350d (and the 400d) is way superior in function.
When it comes to 'kits' (i.e. body and lens sold in one package) Nikon tend to have considerably better lenses, but the Canon tends to be a lower price. Nikon (obviously) make some absolutely storming kit, but the D40/X series is one I would avoid.
Canon's official Ebay outlet has been selling refurbished (mostly goods returned under distance selling regulations I think) 350D + 18-55mm lens for £250, although I have seen them down at £215. 400Ds are selling around £360.
These two manufacturers wouldn't both still be in the market if one was clearly better than the other. It is to our benefit that they are so close to each other, and have to keep pushing the technology forwards in order not to get left behind
Canon's official Ebay outlet has been selling refurbished (mostly goods returned under distance selling regulations I think) 350D + 18-55mm lens for £250, although I have seen them down at £215. 400Ds are selling around £360.
These two manufacturers wouldn't both still be in the market if one was clearly better than the other. It is to our benefit that they are so close to each other, and have to keep pushing the technology forwards in order not to get left behind
Canon all the way.............not just because of the speed of focus but also because of reliablility and costs in repairs.
Back in the day, Nickon's 'F' series was plagued with motor issues, simply because the motor was being used for EVERY autofocus op. Repair costs were astronomical (not to mention the fact that you had lost your body until the repair was complete).
Canon on the other hand, with their clever use of lense mounted USM's - spread the motor wear between those lenses.........make any sense?...........it's like having a different engine every time some else drives a car.
One very important point when buying an SLR is to make sure it has spot metering (not just centre weighted)...........an absolute must in my opinion, trust me I have freelanced for Bike & PB, covering BSB, WSB & GP's.
Back in the day, Nickon's 'F' series was plagued with motor issues, simply because the motor was being used for EVERY autofocus op. Repair costs were astronomical (not to mention the fact that you had lost your body until the repair was complete).
Canon on the other hand, with their clever use of lense mounted USM's - spread the motor wear between those lenses.........make any sense?...........it's like having a different engine every time some else drives a car.
One very important point when buying an SLR is to make sure it has spot metering (not just centre weighted)...........an absolute must in my opinion, trust me I have freelanced for Bike & PB, covering BSB, WSB & GP's.
I almost forgot..........Canon use CMOS sensors as opposed to the run of the mill CCD's.
Inside the CMOS sensor each pixel is made up of many smaller pixels that give a much finer/accurate definition per pixel than the CCD.
Also, since 1997, Sigma's lense developments have been based on the Canon EOS, which makes the purchase of Sigma lenses/dedicated flash a very good choice to make.
I have been told that the glass fitted in both Canon & Sigma lenses are identical and both manufactured by Kenko...........it came as a shock for me too!
Inside the CMOS sensor each pixel is made up of many smaller pixels that give a much finer/accurate definition per pixel than the CCD.
Also, since 1997, Sigma's lense developments have been based on the Canon EOS, which makes the purchase of Sigma lenses/dedicated flash a very good choice to make.
I have been told that the glass fitted in both Canon & Sigma lenses are identical and both manufactured by Kenko...........it came as a shock for me too!
Stickers said:
I almost forgot..........Canon use CMOS sensors as opposed to the run of the mill CCD's.
Inside the CMOS sensor each pixel is made up of many smaller pixels that give a much finer/accurate definition per pixel than the CCD.
Interestingly, i believe the new Nikon D300 and the very-nice-looking D3 have moved to CMOS as well. Not seen any detailed reviews, but there is talk of much lower noise with highISO settings. Inside the CMOS sensor each pixel is made up of many smaller pixels that give a much finer/accurate definition per pixel than the CCD.
Perhaps this will bring the new Nikon models in line with the noise performance of the Canon CMOS cameras.
flat-planedCrank said:
Interestingly, i believe the new Nikon D300 and the very-nice-looking D3 have moved to CMOS as well. Not seen any detailed reviews, but there is talk of much lower noise with highISO settings.
Perhaps this will bring the new Nikon models in line with the noise performance of the Canon CMOS cameras.
That is interesting as Canon have the CMOS right protected!.........something must be going on behind closed doors methinks.Perhaps this will bring the new Nikon models in line with the noise performance of the Canon CMOS cameras.
Edited by Stickers on Sunday 23 September 01:33
Stickers said:
That is interesting as Canon have the CMOS right protected!.........something must be going on behind closed doors methinks.
Both http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond300/
and
http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/digitalcam...
have the D300 listed as having a CMOS sensor. I was under the impression that the tech for CMOS wasn't owned by a single company. I would certainly be surprised to see Nikon licensing tech from Canon
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